• REAGENT TESTING & DRUG CHECKING Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Featured Link 1 Featured Link 2
  • RT&DC Moderators: Senior Staff

Process and theory behind drug lab testing

T

TiT0

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 23, 2001
Messages
202
Location
Perth/ Nanny state
I've been doing various reseaches on the effect of the drugs we take and how they affect us, how to get the best out of it etc etc, but one thing iwould like to further understand is the processes and ideas behind testing say pills (qualative and quantative). I realise majority of testing is done using gas chromotagraphy? is liquid/thin paper and pltes also used? Does spectrography add more to the investigation or make the proccess more economical/faster?
I am quiet interested in ensuring me and my friends do not endure the suffering of a comtaminated pill/powder whatever. From what i've gathered Australia has 'american gov' views about drugs, the just say no and avoid the truth policies. Regardless with information and insight perhaps the 'leaders can wake up and get with the allowance of peron's personal freedomand choice in indulge in their own taste. The main differences that with most drugs concerned,esp extasy, is that it in itself is a good drug, it helps ppl progress and ADDS to their reactional choices. The main issue is ensuring the controlled use, so it doesn't turn out like alcohol (it's extremely destructive qualities), also that pills with bad combinations/impurities are located byfore causing harm.
Anyhows i would like information on how the testing process functions, how to understand the results of subsequent testing, ensuring i keep my health and my life in top condition. Perhaps i might porcure occasional access to the facilities if the process is relativly simple and cost effective, either way the whole subject interests me on the chemical level.
Thanks in advance :p
 
i'm not 100% on what you're asking but here's a heads up
the only way to be sure of whats in your pill is using GC/MS (or LC/MS, but GC is more common, so i'll describe this method)
GC/MS stands for gas chromatograph/mass spectrometer.
the gas chromatograph seperates things (the pill components in this case) by boiling point and tells us the relative abundance of these components. the newly seperated sample is then run through a mass spectrometer. this tells us what the molecular weight of each component is. the spectroscopic properties of all the major psychoactives are very well known and they're easy to spot out on a spectroscopic printout.
it is really a great lab tool, and they're not cheap.
an LC/MS can be used in the same way as well. it works in the exact same way, but it seperates things by polarity not boiling point.
also this is very expensive and when i think about it the upkeep/maintinence is difficult as well...but anyways
TLC testing can be used. one company actually has a product out that uses it. i'm working on figuring out a way to do TLC testing at home w/o having to buy/find solvents and other stuff like that. TLC testing (when done properly) is better than simple chemical testing because it seperates the components, allowing you to see mixtures in pills, but that is all it does. you need to have a reference so you will know what spots correspond to what chemicals. but once you have a reference, that one chemical will give you the same results every time. I have a few doubts about using this method because it will be tough to get alot of reference samples to compare to your sample. (there are alot of drugs out there, and there are alot more non drugs...all of which can look identical on TLC plates)
does that answer your question?
 
Yep thats what i'm trying to find out, but more specifically i was after perhaps links or straight information on the exact procedures for both gas chromo and thin paper chromo. I do have possible regular access to a fully equiped lab in which i can perform both methods. Depending on the cost and complexcity of both techniques i was after information on the exact processes involved; such as solvents needed, step by step procedure, processing of results etc etc.
Btw what are the laws involved in what i wish to do? i think i can get done for perhaps possession? but one pill... pfft.
Anyhows excuse the brief and all over the place post but i had a nice 12hr day and it's time to have a cone and go to dreamland :)
Thanks for ur help thus far and another information u may share. Good luck with your own mission, safety is what it's all about.
 
if you have access to these methods, then you should know how to use them...
every GC/MS, LC/MS system is different. further, every lab's policies on using these machines are usually different. there really isn't a way for me to just tell you how to use your equipment. I've used LC/MS machines that were super easy to use (entirely automated) and i've used ones that are super difficult (lets just say that i hate microsyringes)
as for TLC...well...i'm not gonna try to explain how to set up TLC right now. its alot of guess and check work until you get the right solvent system worked out.
if you really do have access to a full lab you ought to be able to find an organic laboratory textbook somewhere. all the info on TLC is in there. what exactly are your circumstances (email me if you want)? i'm not really clear how you have access to this equipment, but don't know how to use it... :D good luck!
 
Since you're Australian I'll just add a few things.
Here in Aus there is no legitimate testing of pills done where the results are publically listed, unlike the US and a handful of European countries. This is due to politcal reasons. Some people do, however, covertly test the odd pill, but they are putting theselves at risk of imprisonment, or dismissal from their job.
If you have access to a lab, and the skills to do the testing, you have to ask yourself if it is worth the risk. The illegal part of the procedure is not the testing so much as the possession of the illegal substance. Yes it is just one pill, but that's not the point.
The lab you will be using I'm sure isn't owned by you; it would belong to the company/government org etc that you work for. If they discover you have used their equipment for an ilegal act they will prosecute you to the full extent of the law, not to mention fire your arse.
I'm part of a group that is actively lobbying the government to allow lgitimate testing within Australia, and although it's been a long drawn out battle, with no resolution in site, I think we are closer to that end now tha we were 5 years ago. A recent conference of the Australian Medical Association discussed this issued at it seemed to be agreed that the only way ahead was a monitoring system such as is in place in Europe.
So if you want to test your own pills feel free, but be aware of the risks.
 
Hmmmm very true, but if and when i decide to actually use the facilities for this purpose i wish to have the exact procedure and technique fully established within my mind. Perhaps i should explore the thin layer technique b4 furthering myself into riskier positions.
Thin layer as i see it is a rather expensive procedure but a ratehr simple one? anyhows continue to feed me information, if u plz :)
 
check your email
TLC = cheap and fast, but not super accurate
GC/MS = expensive pretty fast and super accurate
you need to be trained by the people in your lab on how to use this GC! not all are created the same! there isn't one simple procedure for every machine
 
Although my comment is irrelevant but also relevant I find it best to preface my whole spiel by saying that diversity in expression is a well needed concept in ANY discussion. My comment: I find it bizarre to go to any drug testing facility (like in Holland for example) and essentially say "Hey, I'm an advocate for braking the law, please test my illegal substances for me and then kindly return them for my illegal consumption." Although I'm pleased there are establishments like this it really does make me think. "Ravers" have a verity of different looks, with most being very distinguishing. The staff of the drug testing facilities are not oblivious in any shape fashion or form. They are human and thus base opinions on what comes before them and how often a particular genre of people come in to test their drugs. When they see shows like 20/20 doing "Drug Rave exposé" do not they reflect on the type of people that frequent their facilities? Does not these facilities perpetuate the belief that the Underground Electronic Community widely use illegal substances. Granted drugs are done in churches, schools, jails, court rooms so forth and so on and they don't get a fundamental "bad" rep. Idealism is contagious. DjDemoDirect.Co.Uk
 
yeah, and GC results aren't really reproducible. you need to run the test under the *exact* same settings to get the same results, and there are several variables (the type of column you use, the temperature you run the test at, and so on). GC in GC/MS really just separates the various components of a sample so they can be identified by MS; GC itself isn't enough to identify what's in the pill.
TLC actually gives fairly reproducible results if it's done correctly. not as good as GC/MS, but still fairly good. plus, you can treat the TLC plate with one of the usual testing kit reagents (like the Marquis reagent). this is a much, much more effective method than just testing the whole sample, because (if done right) it would allow you to identify each active component of the pill individually.
 
don't you have to run a reference at the same time? I mean run a solution on tlc that you know has certain substances in it. I always thought that if you don't do this the results are unreliable..
 
yeah - for tlc you need a reference...
but if you have a pill that you know the contents of then you can use that as your reference.
i've beenthinking of trying to do a prep-TLC and then testing the individual spots with a chemical reagent. from that you could figure out the RF for each chemical. i just gotta pick up some syringe filters...
 
yup testing with the reagent on the plate works. Looks purty and if you are lucky you can get multiple substance ID's
 
The one thing that really puzzles me in fidning out his information is the fact that surely this techniquic has been done many times b4, even by drug harm minimizers, but there seems to be no clear record of the ideal solvent to use for pill testing and the Rf standards that this particular solvent should display.
Perhaps this is due to governmental laws? that such information cannot be told to the normal public? I thought the net would hold many snipets of this vital information but this proves raher hard to find!@
*grumbles*
 
Problably because we do not live in an ideal world. TLC testing isn't really used very often. Its too cumbersome for a field spot test, and its not accurate enough for when you really need it.
 
you wouldn't really have to use a reference if you had published Rf values, and especially if you used a colorimetric reagent like Marquis on the results. you could probably identify any spots that didn't react with the reagent using a UV lamp -- i wonder if the cheap UV lamps often used to detect counterfeit money would work for that.
TLC is actually a relatively easy technique to use. the main problem is really the use of organic solvents, which are all flammable and mostly dangerous to inhale. it's not used in lab testing; it doesn't produce results nearly as conclusive as GC/MS, but the equipment is far easier to obtain.
 
Originally posted by Roches:
you wouldn't really have to use a reference if you had published Rf values, and especially if you used a colorimetric reagent like Marquis on the results.
well in that case, where are these published Rf values found? is it available to the public, anyidea where to find it?
Although i'm intending to use this for testing pills and such, i also plan to use the spectro machine, since my class's atm is on it's funsctioning and principles, but of course tlc would be a better option, somthing to be done at home and not in the workplace. I'm also preparing a presentation about drug testing in using tlc for my chromo class.
Click to expand...
 
Herm - there was one guy in the uk was doing TLC tests I think even at events, can't remember who its is. JB any idea?
 
TheGamer. Twas him. Used to do TLC tests at a club in London whose name escapes me. If you search this forum no doubt you'll find posts where he mentioned it (before he got kidnapped by Mossad or whatever happened to him).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top