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probiotic scam ?

asecin

asecin

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
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i was reading how stomach acid does not allow at least 90% of bacterias to not pass through (obviously some can if you get sick from spoiled food) but i highly doubt beneficial bacteria from probiotics can actually survive the acidic environment and get through the colon. so i wonder, isnt all this probiotic marketing a scam ?
its already been confirmed that once you took antibiotics in your life, you will never benefit from probiotics again. it kills them permanently. now i wonder if i can establish if probiotics work at all in normal conditions and stomach acid is ever a good place to end.
tnx for any help on this !
 
lol that will make more sense nevertless im trying to figure out how did the idea of beneficial bacteria managing through the horrible acidic conditions of the stomach can be proven as possible ?
 
Where did you read/hear that once you take antibiotics you cannot have living bacteria in your gut every again? When you take antibiotics, yes, they kill off all bacteria in your body, even good bacteria in your gut. That bacteria that was killed off will not magically regenerate. However, new helpful bacteria will come back on its own, with or without the help of those "active culture" yoghurts.
 
although the conditions in the stomach are far from easy some types of bacteria will be tough enough to survive I assume. Marketing of some probiotics aims on the fact they are resistant to conditions there, although I have no proof or names. Lactobacillus Hilgardii, bacteria in GingerBeerPlant can tolerate up to 20% alcohol, can exist without oxygen and is not killed by co2, The bacteria in kombucha survive in a ph of 3, which is pretty acidic but not quite stomach conditions.

I wonder if these bacteria make it to the intestine without special coating? good question. Take into account there are also prebiotics fibers aiding bacteria. And that worse for your intestinal flora then antibiotics are anticonceptives. Again based upon rumors no proof that I can present but might be of importance to your quest.
 
persona, http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/08/killing-beneficial-bacteria/

"Finally, he points to evidence that antibiotic use permanently changes the composition of the gut microbiome, altering the balance of bacterial species and maintaining resistant bacteria in the gut.


http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v476/n7361/full/476393a.html

"Antibiotics kill the bacteria we do want, as well as those we don't. Early evidence from my lab and others hints that, sometimes, our friendly flora never fully recover."

there are sites out there full of the same idea that antibiotics kill perm beneficial bacteria, and now if you can ever take probiotics and fix it is questinable ! since bacteria cannot survive the stomach acid.

emkee, exactly. its hard to find any proof anywhere for something like probiotics working. to me, more and more so, it seems like another type of homeopathy scam.
 
^ ... I hate to tell you, but bacteria will always be in your system.

I don't buy the whole "probiotics" thing either, but they are correct about one thing with eating the yoghurt: the bacteria goes back into your body. Doesn't mean that it's any better at creating new bacteria than what you're growing in your garden.
 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22427210
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22423260
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22402407

Three abstracts found with a single 1 minute search. I cherry picked a bit from the top of literally thousands of studies concerning probiotics. Aescin your inability to find medical or life science based studies about topics could be improved a great deal by using http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed or the like. Using popular search engines it can takes forever to find health data derived from studies.

Cochrane which tries to put together evidence based guides to the practice of medicine finds probiotics to be likely useful but needing more study for at least one use http://summaries.cochrane.org/CD003048/probiotics-for-treating-acute-infectious-diarrhoea Many uses like treating non-alcoholic fatty liver or several different stages of Crohn's disease.

There is lots of evidence that probiotics and prebiotics can alter the intestinal enviroment, sometimes for the better. If its efficacious or money well spent in particular situations is a different question. I'm sure there are may situations where it is ineffective and expensive for particular purposes. Aescin, Are you trying to identify health areas that are inherently quacky? The acid/alkali theory of health maintenance pushed in many health food stores is pure quackery. By coincidence it could be healthy as less meat and sugar coupled with more vegetables is usually good for independent reasons. The idea that people are unhealthy for lack of alkali reserves though is quite falsifiable, to spite its popularity.
 
tnx for the ncbi's but still... i cant figure out how it is proven the beneficial bacteria can safely bypass the stomach acid which basically will ruin anything in its path. especially most of that beneficial bacteria, and even most of the bad one unless mutated in some way.
 
Simply_Live said:
^ ... I hate to tell you, but bacteria will always be in your system.

I don't buy the whole "probiotics" thing either, but they are correct about one thing with eating the yoghurt: the bacteria goes back into your body. Doesn't mean that it's any better at creating new bacteria than what you're growing in your garden.
Click to expand...

I hate to tell you, but if you're eating yogurt that has been pasteurized (99% of the yogurt on the market) then you're getting a whole lot of dead bacteria.
 
RhythmSpring said:
I hate to tell you, but if you're eating yogurt that has been pasteurized (99% of the yogurt on the market) then you're getting a whole lot of dead bacteria.
Click to expand...

lol

what about home made yogurt from pasteurized milk ? does it work ??
 
thats not what he means at all. he said the yogurt sold on the market being pasteurized and i asked if you make your own yogurt. also, its spelled yogurt in civilized places, dont know which end of the world you live in.
 
RhythmSpring said:
I hate to tell you, but if you're eating yogurt that has been pasteurized (99% of the yogurt on the market) then you're getting a whole lot of dead bacteria.
Click to expand...
I hate to tell you, but the majority of yogurt is made from Pasteurized milk, it still has a live culture or viable probiotics. They start with pasteurized milk, culture is added, fermentation occurs. Pasteurization doesn't happen with the end product its something that is done to start out with a clean, safe "medium". Some yogurt likely has lost lots of probiotics by addition of preservatives or maybe by adverse conditions in transit but pasteurization of yogurt post fermentation is unheard of in the region I'm in. I called my friend who works at a dairy just now to make sureI was conceiving this correctly. He said pasturization post-fermentation would destroy flavor, texture, and make for a less desirable product.
 
asecin said:
thats not what he means at all. he said the yogurt sold on the market being pasteurized and i asked if you make your own yogurt. also, its spelled yogurt in civilized places, dont know which end of the world you live in.
Click to expand...
"“Yoghurt” is still used in England, Australia, and New Zealand" (source), are those countries not civilized? 8)
 
just cant stand people who say shitty childish words like "veggies" and "yoghurt". how can u add "hurt" to it ? it sounds ridiculous sorry
 
asecin said:
just cant stand people who say shitty childish words like "veggies" and "yoghurt". how can u add "hurt" to it ? it sounds ridiculous sorry
Click to expand...

HAHAHAHAHA... Civilized... I'd take uncivilized any day!

We all know tons of stupid things wrong with the English language, not to mention American slang. Wanna know how many letters are silent in my last name? :P

Let's get back on topic to "yogurt" and "yoghurt".
 
I accept the proposition that some friendly bacteria, maybe most, would be killed by the super acidic environment of the stomach but not all. Why? Because unfriendly bacteria make it through as well like E. coli and Listeria monocytogenes. If no microbes could bypass the acidic zone of the stomach than requiring that meat be thoroughly cooked and milk pasteurized, for health reasons is a scam. I believe getting just a percentage of pathogenic or beneficial bacteria can change the whole environment if none of that particular strain was present before the introduction or reintroduction of the pro-biotic bacteria.

I assume transit time through the stomach varies a great deal. Its acidity varies as well. I think thats a big part of instructions to take things on an empty stomach or with food.

But I do know some pro-biotics are a scam because when analyzed they didn't contain any live bacteria. Also probiotics get recommended for stuff they likely can not help. Here is a breakdown on lactobacillus. http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/790.html
 
is there no such test to be done that tests if you are deficient in beneficial bacteria ? this could greatly help people check before and after use of certain probiotics for best results. certainly such test should exist because they have all kinds of tests now days for all types of conditions.
 
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