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Pro and Con: Counting Clean Time

simco

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I decided to start this thread after relapsing--yet again--during my ongoing try at quitting heroin.

In many recovery circles (especially 12-step fellowships, though it extends more broadly), counting clean time is a common practice. For the uninitiated, by "counting clean time", I mean the practice of enumerating how many days, weeks, months, years, whatever, have elapsed since the last time a recovering addict used. So, if I shot heroin yesterday, I'm currently on Day 1 of recovery. Likewise, in a week, I'll have 7 days of clean time. On January 2, 2018 I'll have a year of time. Simple.

In this thread, I hoped SL folks could bat around ideas related to this custom. Issues that I in particular would like to discuss (though of course, let's wander some) include:
* In what ways is counting time helpful? In what ways is it harmful to recovery?
* To what extent--and in what ways--have you used tallying clean time in your own recovery? For example, are you super strict about clean time?
Or have you found it OK to, say, count time with respect to your drug of choice, while allowing the clock to continue even if you use other
drugs?
* If there is any value in counting time, how can a person in recovery maximize the benefit of counting? In other words, what are some ways of
balancing clean time among other issues we think about during recovery?
* Can you think of ways to measure progress in recovery other than clean time that might be more helpful for people?

These prompts are just ideas. Please post to your heart's content. Mostly, I just find the topic really perplexing, and am hoping that some of you good souls can help me (and hopefully others in recovery) find some clarity.
 
In some ways it's good since it shows you how far you have come and how much you've accomplished.

But in other ways it's not so good since it can give you a false sense of security and make you believe that you can use drugs or certain drugs recreationally or the way you used to and people relapse that way. Or if you do relapse that you've completely failed, and you now have a "fuck it" attitude to getting sober or clean again since you relapsed or messed up and have to start back at day one again.
 
To me, clean time is one of the few tangible measures of progress we have in recovery from addiction. When you're carrying around 1000 lbs of PAWS all day, your life is still shitty, and you can't remember why the fuck you decided to quit in the first place, it's reassuring to step back and say, "well, damn, I've been clean x days, which I never thought I'd be able to accomplish. At least I have reserves of strength I didn't know about." So in that sense--as a motivator and a proxy measure for progress--I've found counting time to be helpful.

But a drawback of counting comes when we hit a relapse. Right now I'm digging out from under a ~5-day run. Technically speaking, I have exactly a week clean right now. But that slip came on the heals of almost 12 weeks clean, which was FAR longer than I'd ever made it before (prior to that, I'd never in all honesty made it even 30 days). So by strict accounting, I really feel that I "ought" to reset the clock from my original clean date (12 weeks ago) to one week ago. And there's the sting: it's killing me to do that, emotionally. Losing all that ground makes me despondent, and tempted just to fuck it and use some more. Very counter-productive, I think. The emotional loss of clean time has for me often been so bad that I've simply lied and bottled up discussion of relapses with my support network because I couldn't stand the shared disappointment of going back to zero.

To me, by way of solving this dilemma, the temptation is allow myself some wiggle-room in the count.

But this is obviously bogus--the count becomes meaningless if I can manipulate it to cover up blemishes. The time I've spent at tables in NA brings me the counter-impulse to be a hardass and say, "well, when we use drugs we lose shit. we lose material things, relationships, etc. losing clean time is just another instance of the awful slogan 'when we use we lose.'" And there's truth to this.

One of the things I do believe from 12-step recovery is that one of the most crucial things people who are cleaning up need to learn is how to practice honesty. And in that sense, counting clean time is a perfect vehicle for practicing honesty. But I can't help feeling that this whole economy of time--losing everything we've earned at every fuck up--is cruel and counter-productive. Hell, we've all lost too much as it is. Recovery needs to helps us regain hope, too.

Having said all this, I guess what I'm leaning towards is that it's nice to have some tangible measure of progress in our recovery. And the measure has to be meaningful. It has to have enough value that it can make us proud. It also needs to have enough teeth to keep us honest. BUT, it also needs to take into account the emotional needs of the person in recovery in the moment (e.g. someone who quit dope yesterday might need a different yardstick than someone who kicked 20 years ago). Unfortunately, I have no idea what such a measure/signpost might actually be. Maybe others here do. :\
 
I've actually been thinking about it a bit since your PM. I think in the early days it definitely helps to know that the worst of it (for me) peaks at day 3-4 and it should be easier from then on. Even this has a bit of a danger to it though. What if day 5 is so shitty, I get so disappointed because I "deserve" to start feeling better? That could easily lead to use.

I had 18 days clean in November, when I relapsed I learned a great deal about the nature of my addiction. In a way I had to go through it to learn a lesson (I can quit drugs to go overseas to see my wife, I used within hours of getting home. I need to be able to beat this on my home turf, but that's for another post).

I kept using for 5 weeks. So, yeah I reset the clock in this case. But how counting the days is useful in this case is to compare where I was mentally during my last kick. What lessons are there to be learned?

I'm at day 9 now. On my previous day 9 I remember it being a revelatory day. I was already in the pink cloud. I was also eating valiums and drinking 6.9% proof beer. Day 10 I ate 50mg of valium and drank cheap gin with some street guys in The Philippines and blacked out.

So what can I learn from that? Not to be overconfident, be wary of substituting with other drugs. It's hard for me to take and pride in making it to day 9, 10 etc. I've made it a lot further before. But it is useful, for the sake of comparison.

But take great pride in the clean time you did have. I had 4 months clean at the start of 2016. It proves that you can do it! If you can last the first 7 days of the worst of the WD, you can make it to day 14. If you can last 11 weeks, you can last a year! We've proven to ourselves that we CAN do this. Those sober mental pathways have already begun to form, we just need to strengthen them through practice.

I'm personally using the idea of avoiding any highs for 2017. It's just a number sure, but it's important to have a measurable goal.
And you're right about honesty. My goal is to be the best version of me, not just quit drugs. If I'm completely sober but still a shithead then what's the point right?
 
I don't spend time counting it. I just happen to know when I quit, and can easily calculate the duration of time.

It's important to know how long you can go without using, in case you ever enter formal treatment. It can be a useful piece of information for the clinicians/doctors you may work with.

It's not the most important thing. Quality over quantity. You should be aiming for an optimal healthy mental state, so that you're less likely to relapse. You can go many years without using, but if you have a poor mental state, relapse will almost certainly happen if you ever regain access to your drug(s) of choice.
 
I haven't used heroin in 143 days or 4 months, 21 days

I don't feel much different than when I stopped using tbh. I just don't have to use a drug just to feel normal, I just wake up and feel ok.

and everyone always says you're going to relapse if you don't change anything and I would ask "so what should I change?" and then it's like nobody knows what to say after that. Just, you know... change

I find clean time to be somewhat like join dates on a forum. It's something to identify yourself with and gives an idea of where you are at in the grand scheme of your recovery, but it's just a number in all reality.
 
I really have no idea when i last shot up or when i last took methadone. I know I got on the program in November before thanks giving in 2014 as i had a bottle on that holiday. I was still using until sometime after that i remember and then i got off methadone sometime in early march of 2016, it had to have been before 3/12 as i went to a show on that date in a different state and didnt have methadone.

As for the exact dates all that occurred in a past i remember thats not my own. So much has changed since both those dates that frankly to remember those aspects of my past seems like a false memory like i had some prolonged dream where i was involved in heroin and crack for years.

I know its my past but the people around me wouldnt believe it, i have my life planned out and am achieving my goals so its hard for me to believe there were dark days where i would have given anything to not be me. Now I find there was never a better person then me and i am happy for all aspects of myself. So no counting clean time is irrelevant as i am clean all the time :)
 
I prefer not to count clean time. I feel like the extreme all or nothing attitude of 12 step programs goes against the basic tenants of harm reduction and isn't realistic. Sets you up for disappointment and feelings of failure. Celebrate the positives, don't dwell on numbers
 
I prefer not to count clean time. I feel like the extreme all or nothing attitude of 12 step programs goes against the basic tenants of harm reduction and isn't realistic. Sets you up for disappointment and feelings of failure. Celebrate the positives, don't dwell on numbers

Yes! I totally agree, and couldn't have said it better.

To me, the tricky part is celebrating the positives. Quitting our DOC (or drugs in general) entails such a loss, that I do think it's really helpful to have tangible rewards as part of recovery. Clean time (and the corresponding keytags, chips, etc.) is one way to help people remember that they are making progress. But it's a pretty abstract reward mechanism. And as you say, it really does set us up for disappointment and shame over failure--we've all had plenty of disappointment and shame already.

Some of the replies above made me realize that plenty of folks seem to do just fine without any reward or landmarks other than the beautiful fact of their own accomplishments. Unfortunately, for me personally, I always see the negatives in a situation. So if I'm left to my own devices, I'll discount my achievements in favor of gloom and cynicism.
 
When I was new off methadone I spent all summer creating new memories in a sense. Started going to shows and festivals, candy flipping as I did before i got all heroin and crack addict like. I vowed to blow all of my money having fun as for once I wasnt smoking a ton of weed or spending all of my money on heroin.

I do create a lot of goals for myself and always have. After I got on methadone i developed 3 large hobbies that will take a life time to master. After I got hobbies I started trying for new friendships with people who dont do hardcore drugs. I'm not one to have many friends so I made a good friend and got hobbies in my first year on methadone. Once off methadone i resumed my festival and show life style from my past. Now that the summer is over I have saved enough money to move out of my parents house, my next goal is to get my mouth fixed (lots of work no dental insurance) I know all of this is capable because in September i wanted to have 2400-3000 saved by the end of the year and I hit the lower number proving i can do long term budgets.

I make goals but they are life ones. I plan to go to gemology school at the end of this year as i recently fell in love with gemstones as a branch of crystal chemistry in a sense. Then fall of 2018 I plan to enroll back in school for chemistry having studied that and math from now until that date hoping to make finishing my chemistry/psychology degree more of a formality.

I love these goals... sometimes i remember wanting to be anyone other then myself so badly. I realize now that I am the only person i would ever want to be. Its weird having memories of being sick and broke with the only goal of getting through the day.

I always focused on personal goals rather then clean time, time passes goals take effort :) I would never tell someone their method of recovery was wrong if counting time is what keeps you motivated then please by all means do so!
 
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I decided to start this thread after relapsing--yet again--during my ongoing try at quitting heroin.

In many recovery circles (especially 12-step fellowships, though it extends more broadly), counting clean time is a common practice. For the uninitiated, by "counting clean time", I mean the practice of enumerating how many days, weeks, months, years, whatever, have elapsed since the last time a recovering addict used. So, if I shot heroin yesterday, I'm currently on Day 1 of recovery. Likewise, in a week, I'll have 7 days of clean time. On January 2, 2018 I'll have a year of time. Simple.

In this thread, I hoped SL folks could bat around ideas related to this custom. Issues that I in particular would like to discuss (though of course, let's wander some) include:
* In what ways is counting time helpful? In what ways is it harmful to recovery?

For the longest time I found counting time counterproductive and distasteful. I think this has always had a lot to do with the inadequacy in my mind of the kind of "sobriety" that is valued in most twelve step circles of the common abstinence-only kind. IME true sobriety is much more naunce than merely achieving or maintain abstinence - it is about quality of life and all that entailed for different individuals living different lives, than then simply whether you or not you chose to engage in substance use.

Only for the most extreme of substance use disorders does it become a black and white, life or death dilemma whether or not to use. Most people who struggle with substance use disorder fall into the "less severe" (though no less significant) categories of mild to moderate substance use disorder. I'm not advocating everyone practice moderation based techniques, but rather that it is a very, very individual choice specific to each individual's circumstances and goals.

But back to your question, most people I see counting days, particularly people earlier in recovery or coming out of a lapse or relapse (BTW from what I know of your situation I'd argue you lapsed, not relapse, though I don't really know enough of what happened with your most recent use to be able to say with any kind of confident certainty), are likely to lapse or relapse in the future - often a significant number of time.

I have long felt that counting days before you have any substantial time is counter productive because it can easily lend itself to a sense of failure in having to start all over at zero after any substance use (at least for those who preach a strict abstinence-only model, which would be those in twelve step circles). And even when you do have a lot of clean time, it is likewise counter productive to get to fixated on your time or locating any significant sense of self worth in your accumulated clean time simply for the pragmatic reason that, should the worst happen and you end up relapsing, it will make it that much more shameful and difficult to come back from.

Perhaps most importantly, the notion that someone is starting over from zero baffles and frustrates me from no end. Just because someone lapsed or relapsed, even if they totally crashed and burned, absolutely does not indicate they didn't learn a lot both prior to their episode of use OR from the actual episode. The idea that you someone lost what you gained during your prior sobriety and haven't gained anything from the so called "failure" of slide back into substance use is disheartening, depressing and demoralizing.

Now, with years of abstinence from my drugs of choice (opioids), I find that reflecting on the time I have successfully been able to focus my energies on healthier pursuits to be encouraging. Like, "Holy fuck I can really do this," kind of feeling. Especially considering I was in a place for a long time where I assumed I'd never be able to enjoy living life with the aid of exogenous endorphins. But that is it, I don't take the counting time thing to seriously for the above reasons.

* To what extent--and in what ways--have you used tallying clean time in your own recovery? For example, are you super strict about clean time?
Or have you found it OK to, say, count time with respect to your drug of choice, while allowing the clock to continue even if you use other
drugs?

I have tried doing it the abstinence-way I described above, strictly counting each day without using any "mind altering substance" (a silly distinction, considering the way the abstinence-only community does like to think of stuff like nicotine, caffeine or sugar as mind altering when they are no less so than heroin or cocaine).

I have also simply not counting time at all, though at best I found not thinking about how long it had been since I used my DOC, or any substance for that matter, next to impossible - especially in early recovery or after a recent use. Furthermore, ignoring clean time wasn't appreciatively better than focusing on it explicitly, even in a strict kind of way (although as I said, doing so got progressively more demoralizing after each new episode of use).

I ended up finding that being mindful of clean time for particular substance and behaviors based upon the severity of their impact on my life to be the most help. For instance, heroin and theft are two things I have a strict definition of abstinence for. Other things like not showing up for appointments (without a good reason) or using benzodiazepines I have a less strict but still serious consideration for abstinence with (I have never had moderate or severe issues with gabaergic substance use, BTW - if I had they would be in the same category as heroin).

For things like entheogens, sex and cannabis, I remain mindful of the impact they have on my wellbeing, but do not consider myself any less abstinent (from the things that I have struggled with) if I engage with them. After all, they aren't heroin or even illegal in most cases (given how I engage with them and where I live; the only exception would be things like the legality of LSD, MDMA, mushrooms, mescaline, DMT, etc, but I am very careful about that).

I'm a harm reduction junkie through and through. When it comes to the relationship and need for between abstinence and sobriety, I am all about analyzing the harm my choices and behavior potentially might have on my wellbeing.

* If there is any value in counting time, how can a person in recovery maximize the benefit of counting? In other words, what are some ways of
balancing clean time among other issues we think about during recovery?

I think it is important to remember that what is important is what works for you. I think you have a pretty good idea about this buy now, given your wealth of experience in the field. We all have different goals, more so when we are at different places in our growth and recovery. What is important is focusing on identifying meaningful yet realistic and achievable goals and meeting yourself wherever you're at. Ultimate counting time, especially in early recovery or after an episode of substance use, is of limited value when compared to other pursuits of recovery (such as the "little" things most of us struggle with, like eating healthy, getting enough sleep, taking care of your mental health, pursing stable, healthy interpersonal relationships, pursuing your passions and meaning generally in life outside mere substance use (or abstinence) related issues, etc. etc.).


* Can you think of ways to measure progress in recovery other than clean time that might be more helpful for people?

I think the model I proposed above, for how I count my time and think of the way I maintain abstinence, is far more helpful than a black and white, abstinence-only, strict all or nothing model like that pushed in twelve step culture as I have experienced it. Granted there are many diverse voices within that community and, while it's unfortunate I have had such a distaste set of experience with them, the loudest and most vocal opinions focus on promoting the strict abstinence-only model. Taking a more nuanced, less narrow minded approach to recovery vis a vis sobriety vs. abstinence seems itself to cause less harm and lead to more self compassion than the alternative. Plus, best of all, one can tailor the model I propose to their individual needs.

The abstinence-only model ultimately fails in my eyes because it, at best, struggles to take the individual needs of a very diverse set of people (substance users) into account, ending up leading with individuals promoting to cookie cutter approach to recovery that doesn't necessarily serve the needs of those they are attempting to help. After all, you know how they like to say about the "selfish" nature of the program:that sponsors and people who do service work in AA and NA aren't doing it for their sponsees or the folks they provide services for, they're doing it for themselves.


These prompts are just ideas. Please post to your heart's content. Mostly, I just find the topic really perplexing, and am hoping that some of you good souls can help me (and hopefully others in recovery) find some clarity.

Clearly I have thought about this a lot and have strong feelings. I would love to explore my more nuanced approach to prioritizing strict abstinence for certain more problematic behaviors and substance, where the harm caused by particular types behaviors (and the related choices we make to engage or not with them) directly with their effect on our quality of life (instead of some ideology or dogma).

In any case, it seems like there is pretty much consensus on the matter in the thread, but I'd have though no less for a community as englightened as BL ;)
 
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^^
Thanks for the awesome post, TPD! For what it's worth, I completely agree that an especially pernicious aspect of most abstinence-only recovery models is their failure to recognize and capitalize on the uniqueness of each of us. (Though I say this as someone who is currently spending a weirdly large amount of time in NA meetings :\).

Another of your points that I think is a pearl--the distinction between lapses and relapses. After my own recent slip, I've been trying to suss out this exact distinction. I think it's an important one in a whole range of ways.

Lastly, if there is any value in counting time--or even if counting time is something we do reflexively, without any real value--I think it's crucial for the recovery community to come to terms with the fact that a (re)lapse DOES NOT erase the progress that came before it, at least in general. After reading the excellent posts on this thread, I'm realizing that for many of us, some kind of time count seems to come naturally (for those of us who don't fit this mold, I think that's especially awesome! It bespeaks a unique courage and outlook). So, if many folks in recovery are going to consider time in whatever sense, we owe it to ourselves to get serious about thinking deeply on how lapses can figure into a meaningful, therapeutic set of recovery landmarks.
 
Generally the distinction between a lapse and relapse lays primarily on comparing where you were at during prior episode of use that caused you considerable harm and whether or not the there was a return to the behavior that caused a similarly high level of harm during the most recent episode of use. A return to old behavior, for instance.

When I stopped using I was pretty much organizing my life around my heroin use and that took precedence over any and all other priorities in life, by that point which there were very few of outside securing the drugs I needed to function in any sense of the word. My use had come to monopolize my time, preventing me from engaging with life or accomplishing any of my moderate goals.

It doesn't necessarily take much time during a relapse for the same kind of severity of the use disorder to flare up, with tolerance coming faster than it had before for instance, so it wouldn't necessarily take much use or time using for things to get just as bad as where you left them. On the other hand, the days of use during a lapse can be significant, so the amount of time the lapse or relapse takes isn't necessarily the best alone indicator of how you might best conceptualize the experience (I have had relapses that I was able to pull out of after only two or three days of use and I have had lapses that lasted weeks).

I think another good distinction is that it is much harder to pull ones self out of a relapse than a lapse. The amount of despaired involved in a relapse is much starker and severe than that of a lapse, where you still have somewhat of an intact sense of self able to eventually lead you to see the light of the danger of what you're doing.

Think of what it means to relapse when it comes to other mental health concerns, such as depression or OCD. There is a kind of despair there that isn't nearly as acute during a lapse, but just as severe during full on relapse. The level of darkness your behavior leads you to inhabit, the time and resources allocated to using, the similarity of behaviors from when you were in active addiction versus the most recent episode, and the degree of harm caused to yourself and others by your most recent use compared to active addiction are all indicators of whether the recent episode might be better labeled lapse or relapse.

Also, remember that a relapse is a return to active addiction, whereas a lapse is significantly less severe.
 
I can't not count clean time. I mean, if I know my clean date, I automatically do the mental math to within a couple days. But I'm also not the kind of person to ever bring my recovery up in person unless I really trust the person and there is mutual respect. Most people in my current life have no clue I am recovering from heroin.

But ya, IMHO it's sad if that is the prominent thing about your recovery that you celebrate. I'm much prouder of what I achieve sober that drugs got in the way of. It's what you do with that time, not how much there is. In two years some driven person can turn his/her life around and do as much as a dry drunk with thirty five years.

The one thing that did piss me off...And I have seen this in a couple meetings...Everyone stands up and then time is called in ascending order. "One year" and people with one year sit down. And so on until the last geezer stands. So the program that preaches that the day one person is the most important person in the room opens the meeting with an exercise that has him as the most insignificant. Right...
 
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