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Pride in your country?

Originally posted by BlueAdonis:
Also..
If things are So terribly wrong and oppressing, than why not try and change things instead of infecting others with the negativity? Start off small, run for mayor, then governor, then Senator or whatever, do something constructive that would have an impact if things are so gloom in the good ol U.S of A..[/b]
three words to answer your question - i am white
sorry to be replying so many months later, but i dont have internet all the time, and i did a search on some of my comments...and this one needed an answer :)
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I am an Australian, and I am ashamed of my government, and many of my peers. As far as being proud/ashamed of my country, well my country is a giant bit of rock sitting in the ocean, and I think being proud of it would be akin to being proud of a pet rock.
I am ashamed to live in a country that was founded on immigration, but refuses to let asylum seekers in because their lives are deemed less important than the money western immigrants can bring. I am ashamed to live in a country that blindly supports and follows the US down a path of killing and destruction.
I am ashamed to live in a country that has an incredibly unfair political system. I am ashamed to live in a country where the two main rival parties, being the only ones with the funding and corporate sponsorship to win our so called 'democratic' elections both have an agenda to undermine our health, welfare and education systems, because it is in the interests of large corporations to do so.
I am ashamed to live in a rich country, that is only rich because others are poor.
But most of all, I am ashamed to live in a country where most people just don't give a fuck.
They should rename Australia to Apathetica.
You can call me a hypocrit, say that I shouldn't complain while I wear clothes made in sweatshops or whatever, but I say this to you: I would rather be a hypocrit with a sense of morals and responsibility than a selfish apathetic piece of shit.
Break the system down.
 
Originally posted by BlueAdonis:

Excellent. I couldnt of said it better myself.
Also..
If things are So terribly wrong and oppressing, than why not try and change things instead of infecting others with the negativity? Start off small, run for mayor, then governor, then Senator or whatever, do something constructive that would have an impact if things are so gloom in the good ol U.S of A..
What for so they can disagree with the elitists behind the scenes like JFK did, and get assinated...many people believe he was assinated because he averted the Cuban missle crisis which was in comlete opposition to the elitists agenda.
If I was healthy I would organize a movement and start political protest demonstrations. And no I don't want to live in South Africa...however what does that have to do with a realistic critical analysis of our governments inappropriate foreign policy, and its urge to extirpate innocent civilians in other countries...and then simply chalk it up as acceptable collateral damage.
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SteveElektro, your post says it all.
I am ashamed to live in a rich country, that is only rich because others are poor. But most of all, I am ashamed to live in a country where most people just don't give a fuck
I ain't the perfect anarchist either, but sometimes I just wish I could shake the shit from between people's ears. How can millions of people be so fucking ignorant and naive about their Government?
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Well, I'm British and I love my country. That doesn't mean I'm jingoistic. That doesn't mean that I think any less of other peoples and cultures.
I know our past hasn't been perfect, but there isn't a country in the world who hasn't done shit things in the past.
Fast a: I agree with you big time - the Dutch have a lot to be proud of.
Lop: War is a shit, terrible thing but sometimes it's unavoidable. You say that its cowardly. That is an insult to all the people who have given their lives fighting for freedom. Perhaps you think in 1939 we should have just let Hitler take over the world and done nothing? We all want peace, but sometimes the only way to achieve this is through war. Thats life.
Just like taxes. If anyone can think of a better or even just a different way of financing a country then I'd be interested to hear what it is.
 
Originally posted by Skyline_GTR:
I know our past hasn't been perfect, but there isn't a country in the world who hasn't done shit things in the past.\
Thats one of the reasons no counry is to be proud of. I love my girl, and she loves me. We share the love. Love involves 2 PERSONS. Does your country love you? Countrys,states,goverments don't love man.. Countrys are build to make their peole live better, they are like servents. I don't love my country, I'm not proud of it, I even don't care about it.Idon't care if its the best country or not, shit, I even changed my counry. .. I love the people, I can do anything for the people. But the state, fuck it! Loving your country is like loving the company you work for! Country is not a person, and I only love people, or persons!
Peace
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Pride in my country's history?
Pride in My Lai?
Pride in Wounded Knee?
Pride in slavery and a subsequent 140 year civil rights struggle?
Pride in homelessness?
Pride in butchering people all over the world?
Pride in a set of corporations so powerful they wield more power than most foreign gov'ts?
Pride in propping up dictators like Noriega, the Shah of Iran, Saddam Hussein, the Taliban, a whole series of South Vietnamese regimes, and too many more to name here?
Pride in a nuclear threat that started right here?
Pride in experiments in Tuskeegee on non-treatment of syphilis in blacks?
Pride in MK-ULTRA?
Pride in Watergate?
Pride in Kent State?
Pride in the drug war?
Pride that our nation's military spends more than 900million dollars a day while homeless people risk freezing to death on the streets?
Pride that not only is the number one US export arms, but that the US gov't is the biggest arms dealer on the planet?
Pride in CIA attempts to overthrow legitimate but unfriendly gov'ts?
Pride in the RAVE act?
Pride in Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
Pride celebrity culture and tight gov't friendly corporate control of mass media?
Pride in an illusory democracy?
Pride in a faulty two-parties that represent the same idea system?
Pride in the IMF and World Bank which work daily to increase third world poverty?
Pride in the nation's capital where 40% of the residents live below the poverty line, with the highest HIV per capita rate in the country, where there are 12000 homeless people and 28000 units of available housing?
Pride in a country that puts oil company revenues over the future environmental condition of our entire world?
Pride in US cultural imperialism?
Pride in a system where the wealthy and powerful do not suffer the same legal consequences for crime as regular people?
Pride in Japanese internment camps?
Pride in alienation culture?
Pride in xenophobia?
Pride in a country where even bad movie actors make more than teachers?
Pride in a nation where David Duke can run in elections and win?
Pride in a country where the oil companies bought the gov't to insure interstates would be built instead of public transportation?
Pride in Waco?
Pride in a country where it became illegal to execute mentally disabled people only this year?
Pride in middle-class fast food culture?
Pride in rampant racism?
Pride in the lack of civil rights protection for sexual orientation?
Pride in a failed equal rights for women amendment?
Pride in a system where our wealth comes off the sweat and blood of the third world?
Pride in vetoing the Kyoto accord?
Pride in an expensive and exclusive educational system?
Pride in innercity poverty?
Pride that peaceful demonstators must obtain permits and be approved?
Pride in a country whose schools teach that other systems, such as communism and anarchism are not only foolish but "evil"?
Pride in hate-crimes after 9/11?
Pride in a country where the Peace Corps is sworn to defend the nation in times of trouble?
Pride in a war to keep immigrants out of our country?
Pride in a country where not one state has adopted a living wage law?
And that's not even a partial list of grievances.
Yeah, I'm proud.
Proud that a few people in this country continue to stand up to these assholes in the name of freedom and justice. But that's about it.
God bless AmeriKKKa. This flag-waving euphoria I'm feeling practically brings a tear to my eye (and churning to my stomach).
Fight the power. They've been fighting you for long enough, isn't it time you fought back?
 
Perhaps you think in 1939 we should have just let Hitler take over the world and done nothing?
The great symbol of British nationalism - The Monarchy - Flirted with the nazis - If the nazis did win the Brirish monarchy would have happily been part of a nazi plans. Furthermore what is the central theme to Nazism and Facism ? Nationalism.
Just like taxes. If anyone can think of a better or even just a different way of financing a country then I'd be interested to hear what it is.
Tax the RICH not the POOR ! Murdoch and Packer pay minimal taxes in the U.K and AUS through loop holes and expensive lawyers. Stock traders pay less tax than the average worker. Thats outrageous and the solution is very simple.
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Originally posted by denialworks4me:

The great symbol of British nationalism - The Monarchy - Flirted with the nazis - If the nazis did win the Brirish monarchy would have happily been part of a nazi plans.

<sighs> Credible source or proof please.
Originally posted by denialworks4me:

Tax the RICH not the POOR ! Murdoch and Packer pay minimal taxes in the U.K and AUS through loop holes and expensive lawyers. Stock traders pay less tax than the average worker. Thats outrageous and the solution is very simple.
In Britain, the first approx £4500 you earn is tax free. Anything above that up to about £28000 is taxed at approx 20%. Anything you earn above that is taxed at 40%. The rich (and rightly so)get taxed more then the poor already...
But in anycase, my post was in response to those saying that taxes should be abolished. You have not suggested an alternative to taxation.
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Great thread. Nice to see intelligent debate for the most part, rather than a boiling over of emotions and the resulting senseless posts.
A request for the students out there: please bring this kind of intelligent discussion with you into the classroom! I attend one of the top universities in America but am continually disappointed at how few of the truly bright students are willing to express themselves. Be confident! Most of those who participate in class discussion during my politcal science course sound something like the following: "Well, I don't really know, but...like...ya know?...I mean...like..."
We need more of the "smart" students speaking up, helping to spread their well-thought-out political ideas to the less informed or less intelligent populace.
 
I don't think pride has ever done anyone any good. EVER.
Doesn't matter what type of pride ... racial pride, national pride, family pride ... all of that.
Except the I-am-the-mini-golf-champ-of-my-town pride. That's alright, but you get the point?
 
quote:
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Originally posted by denialworks4me:
The great symbol of British nationalism - The Monarchy - Flirted with the nazis - If the nazis did win the Brirish monarchy would have happily been part of a nazi plans.
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<sighs> Credible source or proof please.
It's a fairly well known fact that Edward had a deal with the Nazis to become puppet king should they invade. There are documents in the Publics Records Office (still classified) that state he was under MI5 surveillance due to his passing photos of Air Defence locations to the Germans. But then most of us in England realise that the royal family are a bunch of right wing Germans. We only keep them to entice dumb foreigners to our wet dull country... :)
(BTW, I have no idea how the monarchy got into this, and hence have position on one side or the other... I just wanted to have a dig at the royal family...)
The source I can cite is "Secret History" which appeared on Channel 4 (in the UK) about two years ago.
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Getting back on topic, I'd say I'm proud of being European far more than specifically British/English.
 
In Britain, the first approx £4500 you earn is tax free. Anything above that up to about £28000 is taxed at approx 20%. Anything you earn above that is taxed at 40%. The rich (and rightly so)get taxed more then the poor already...
This is a quote from the tax department right ?
Anyway I am waiting on an email from a friend that contains some articles that can be referenced ..... in the meantime here are some examples of the U.K and throughtout the world. Trust me howerver dear anyone holds there country, they still live under capitalism and where there is capitalism there will be always corporate handouts and tax evasion.
some examples as follows..
IBM Probed Over U.K. Taxes (Associated Press)
The investigation by Inland Revenue has lasted about two years and has focused on fluctuations in royalty payments between 1991 and 1996. Gerard M. Churchhouse, a former employee at IBM's British unit, alleged in 1997 that the company avoided paying as much as $500 million in taxes in that period by raising royalty payments from 8 percent to 12 percent on goods and services sold in the United Kingdom. If true, the move would have lowered the British unit's operating profit, thereby lowering British taxes. Rob Wilson, a spokesman for IBM, confirmed that the computer maker is being audited by Inland Revenue......
one of the very few companies that get caught
and some info from http://www.transnationale.org/anglais/dossiers/finance/impots.htm
Widely Varying Tax Rates by Company and Industry
Effective tax rates varied dramatically both among companies and industries. Over the three-year period, individual company tax rates ranged from a low of -9.9 percent on Goodyear to a high of just over 35 percent on Winn-Dixie and Paccar.
Industry tax rates ranged from the 12.3 percent paid by oil companies up to a 31.6 percent rate paid by publishers. Besides oil, other very low tax industries--which paid less than half the statutory tax rate over the entire 1996-98 period--included electronic and electrical equipment manufacturers (13.1 percent), paper companies (13.9 percent), transportation companies (14.1 percent) and auto companies (17.1 percent).
Competitors in various industries also faced sharply varying effective tax rates. For example, Maytag and General Electric both make kitchen appliances. But Maytag paid 35 percent of its profits in taxes from 1996 to 1998, while General Electric paid only 8.1 percent. Likewise, Abbot Laboratories and Pfizer are both in the drug business, but the former paid almost 29 percent of its profits in taxes from 1996 to 1998, while the latter paid only 3.1 percent.
How Companies Avoided Taxes
Companies used a variety of means to lower their federal income taxes, including accelerated depreciation write-offs, tax credits for things like research and oil drilling, and tax breaks for doing business in Puerto Rico. General Electric continues to slash its tax bills every year through its leasing activities, where it essentially buys tax breaks from companies that have more than they can use.
One fast-growing tax break that had a very significant effect in lowering taxes involved stock options. When stock options are exercised, corporations can take a tax deduction for the difference between what employees pay for the stock and what it's worth--even though in reporting profits to shareholders, companies don't treat stock-option transactions as business expenses. ITEP found that 233 of the 250 companies lowered their taxes from stock options, by a total of $25.8 billion over the three years. Microsoft led the pack with $2.7 billion in stock-option tax benefits--reflecting the fact that stock option tax benefits are dependent on how much a company's stock has gone up in value, and thus the tax savings were especially large in high-tech industries whose market valuations zoomed during the three-year period.
"The general public has a right to be concerned about how their taxes and services are affected by this resurgence in corporate tax avoidance," said McIntyre. "Companies that see their competitors paying much less in taxes than they do have a legitimate beef, too. And anyone who worries about our economy's long-term growth has to wonder why the tax code is being used to favor some industries and some kinds of investments over others, rather than letting market forces decide."
[ 15 September 2002: Message edited by: denialworks4me ]
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what about someone that lives in china? china is capitalist now?
Well its very similar its in fact STate Capitalist.
Capitalist countries use countries like china , cuba , russia (after the counter revolution) as an example of how communism/socialism is destined to fail or how its totalitarian. In fact these countries are not communist. Ask the average worker in china if they have direct control of production and their lives.
And the rulers in these countries claim they are communist leaders as to co-opt the history of genuine workers struggles.
Heres is a link to an article that explores this in much more detail.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/cliff/works/1999/trotism/ch02.htm
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