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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: tryptakid | Foreigner

Pride in your country?

To be honest I don't see why our posting should be viewed as anything less than an attempt to change the world. We are trying to convince you our way is right. And the only way the idealistic-hippie-wanabee's can win is by becoming most people in the world.
If every single person was an idealist-hippie-wannabee I think the world would be a far better place - and I don't think nothing would get done as you probably assume.
I don't need pills to show my feelings to other people or to change my attitude on the world. (though I do do e occasionally)
Besides - personally I'm not slagging things off that are oppresive and evil (in this thread) im just saying it's stupid to be proud of your country. (your meaning any i's country - not specifically america ok)
[ 17 May 2002: Message edited by: Setarcos ]
 
BlueAdonis, don't you think more would get done in the name of progress if people tried to change the things that were wrong with this world, rather than not doing anything and saying, "I'm glad I live in America, it could be worse." Attitudes like that are what make things worse. Shouldn't you really be saying, "It could be a lot better."? And if you think that someone is going to change America through a political arena, especially the one that exists right now, you're dreaming. Current American politics is the heart of the problem. Social awareness and uprising is the key, and COMMUNICATION among the people of that society is necessary, Exx_head...
 
"If things are So terribly wrong and oppressing, than why not try and change things instead of infecting others with the negativity? Start off small, run for mayor, then governor, then Senator or whatever, do something constructive that would have an impact if things are so gloom in the good ol U.S of A" I hope by infecting others with the TRUTH which is gloomy is our police state maybe it will change things. Run for Government Office? Yeah I would love to but before I could stand a chance of even getting on a ballot I would need to rob a whole lot of banks LOL I am not the son of a rich business owner or politician so neither I nor you stand a chance there and even if I did in our current electorial system There is no power to influence our elected leaders to do what we demand so it would be pointless to be involved as one voice crying out against those who do the bidding of the voices which back thier mouths with bribes and payoffs. You ask that i do something Well posting my thoughts to wake up the sleeping masses is the best I can do and who knows it might make a change. Hell if we had ONE honest federal prosecuter in this entire fucked up country he alone could make one small change to my ranting and prove one of my arguments wrong. How about arresting Louis Fhree? Is there ONE honest prosecuter? Obviously not, or it would have happened already. The evidence is recorded on tape and available to anyone who wishes to view it. He is guilty of Felony Child abuse and also Felony Murder as the law says anyone who commits a felony crime and if durin the commission of that crime someone dies no matter what actually caused the death the felon is still as guilty as if he had pulled the trigger. Right? Well.......I have been waiting almost 9 years to see someone arrest his ass It aint happened yet. To the rest of my negativity I did make a good suggestion as to how we could solve the problem did I not? To the guy who made the comment about living in south africa I honestly dont know what its like there but I can say that although we might have a better economy and stability which you may lack......but of what value is living in a place where you can obtain great wealth only to lose it by having criminal law enforcement take it from you at will? Or worse yet to live in a place that is swelled by citizens with so much pride in what we as a collective people believe that it blinds us to the fact that we really dont have any freedom anymore? If south africa is horrible and your people know it be grateful.....at least your closer to the possiblity of Revolution which might bring change and hope.
 
^
l
Well said DoubleRoller, *hint*it'd be alot easier to read if you put a space in there every so often*hint*
[edit this paragraph, good point out setarcos]
Im no Einstein, but who is Louis Phree?
And in closing, nothing is going to constructively get done by pissing and moaning about how the judicial system has gone to shit unless you act upon it and do something to stop it. I'm all for venting your opinion on here, and bringing awareness to those in the shadows, but I honestly dont think America is too bad. Nothing can be perfect, including USA. It's got it's flaws, it's got its bad points, but I think when you look at how good we got it compared to other countries, you can't help but be proud..
If not proud, would you say you're embarassed?
[ 17 May 2002: Message edited by: BlueAdonis ]
 
"If not proud, would you say you're embarassed?"
My view on this post is that you should be neither proud nor embarassed, as it really has little to do with what you have done.
I agree about your posts DoubleRoller they are good but add space.
[ 17 May 2002: Message edited by: Setarcos ]
 
Hi Louis Fhree is former head director of the FBI during the clinton administration. At the waco standoff he gave the order to use CS tear gas on the brach davidian compound. If you get a copy of the award winning video "Waco The rules of engagement" available at most blockbuster video stores for rental it contains the auctual news footage of the speech he made on national TV concerning the final governmental assault on the compound. One of the reporters had made comments that there were 29 children in the compound some under 1 year and they seemed quite interested in knowing why he had made this decision as CS gas is DEADLY in an enclosed area. He said and I quote "We put massive gas into that bunker we knew that protection was there and we had to breach it. We put so much gas in there that thier gas masks had to be failing" He went on to say "We had thought that by doing this thier parental instints would kick in and they wouldnt want thier children to be in that enviroment.....Its a shame....obviously they just didnt care about thier children." Later on in an interview with Janet Reno Reno was asked if she had been informed by those in the field (fhree)as to the fact that they dont have any gas masks that could possibly fit a child or infant and she answered yes. From the statement by fhree it is clear that his intended target of the gasing wasnt the adults but in fact he targeted the children! Gas the kids and when the parents see them choking and dying then maybe they will get them out of there and we can arrest them. DUHHHH! In a standoff situation where there was no immediate threat to ANYONE other than the governments time and involvement this action was Cruel and murderous as the video evidence shows you the bodies of those children and you will see they are bend backwards and many of them had twisted and broken bones.....the autopsies indicate the cause of death in most of those kids....cyanide gas...the result of burning CS. By the way those federal officers all got promotions and praise from the white house on down! Amazing isnt it? and folks wonder why I am so negative!
 
If your really think that by posting a message about how bad you think things are on a drug bulletin board is getting your message out to the masses, then you are sadly misguided. Do you really think that most people in our anti-drug society are going to give a shit about your insights on an Ecstasy Bulletin board???
It is very easy to sit and list all of the negative things that you think are problems without giving any creedence to the good things that happen every day. You are doing the same thing that the anti-drug propaganda war does by only listing the negative sides of drug use without mentioning the positives.
I get tired of people implying that anyone who is patriotic is blindly ignorant about their country's actions and policies. I just got criticized for thinking I "know what people do in their everyday lives" but then you turn around and presume to do the same about others. This country (US)has helped far more people than it has hurt. If you don't see that and can't find it within reason to be believable, then no amount of data or arguing is going to persuade you otherwise. Everyone assumes now that there is no price to be paid for freedom because you have always enjoyed it. That has not always been the case. Hell, Carter just went to Cuba to express his concerns over the lack of freedom of expression allowed there. Do you think you would be able to sit on a computer in Cuba and slag off the government? A man being interviewed on the radio was afraid to give his name or true opinion of the Castro regime for fear of recourse. Do you think that is worth fighting for? I do. I agree that these should be inherent rights, but that doesn't mean I take them for granted.
I am proud of the US's short history. That doesn't mean I believe the country is infallable or there aren't some things I'm ashamed of. Yes, it could be better. That will never change.
You say you can't afford to run for office, but you could volunteer to help a candidate who can. You could volunteer for the red cross, or for any other organizations trying to make the world a better place. Giving up before you start is giving in to the powers that be and furthering the problems that you point out exist. That is my point.
 
First off this is not an XTC site This is a drug site yes but also this forum is entitled POLITICS Not XTC discussion now is it? Second off I do send letters everywhere and do participate on that level. Third off you might actually be amazed at how many people look at sites like this In particular those in government and law enforcment not to mention media folks looking for dirt on drugs and other good stories to boost thier ratings. Fourth off I dont mean to flame you but you are exactly what i mean so proud of what we have done for the world. Can you tell me what we have done that WASNT done ONLY in our interest alone? You mean like the Gulf War? Where we defended A little shit country whos own citizens packed up and went to Germany while we fought for them? Only to defeat Saddam and after telling his people we will help them defeat Saddam then left 200,000 of them to be murdered by him? Yeah Right! Wake up! Your basking in what WE yes WE (you and I) as americans want to believe we are doing for the world, but if fact our government is causing most of the problems. I listed the above example as just that an example I could spend years giving more but when I begin to think of our "goodness" I get stuck Such as When we gave millions of pounds of food to Eithiopia in the 80s during one of thier major droughts. Was that done as an act of kindness or because it allowed us to get rid of a major surplus of food which was threatening to bring down domestic crops of soy? I wonder.... I have no doubt the american people did so out of love but since when are the people the voice of action in america? As to working for a politician. I dont think so. Why? Find one who does what he says? I do promote the liberatian party the best i can and as for reaching the public I got ahold of you didnt I?
 
Exx Head said:
I get tired of people implying that anyone who is patriotic is blindly ignorant about their country's actions and policies.
Unfortunately, this usually is the case.
When it is not, it is usually an excuse to support policies that are morally reprehensible because they are personally financially beneficial. There are some folks out there that just don't want to rock the boat because they are more afraid of losing their personal economic advantage than they are in doing what's right.
Just look at the number of businessmen that collaborated willingly with the Nazis during World War II.
Patriotism as described by many implies a blind faith that "your country" will do what is right. This is fundamentally incorrect for several reasons... principally because "your country" is an idealogical construct.
"Your country" doesn't do anything. The people that run its government are the ones that do things... and sometimes their motives are pure and noble, sometimes they are not.
We are so quick to forget the lessons of Watergate.
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. Can you tell me what we have done that WASNT done ONLY in our interest alone?
here's one: The Marshall Plan. Look it up. It was not ONLY in the interest of the US. If you think it was, go read about it again.
Exx Head said:
quote:
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I get tired of people implying that anyone who is patriotic is blindly ignorant about their country's actions and policies.
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Unfortunately, this usually is the case.
When it is not, it is usually an excuse to support policies that are morally reprehensible because they are personally financially beneficial. There are some folks out there that just don't want to rock the boat because they are more afraid of losing their personal economic advantage than they are in doing what's right.
Note that I used the word anyone, then you reply with "usually". There is a difference between SOME of the people, and ALL of the people. And I will also argue that MOST of the people who SAY they don't do the same will not want to rock their OWN economic boat. They will typically point a finger at someone who is wealthier and blame them for perpetuating the problems. This hypocrisy is the whole problem I have with all the anti-US rhetoric I hear again and again in here. No matter how poor you think you are, compare yourself to an Afghani with nothing, then answer for yourself if you really feel for them why you don't give up everything and live like they do--instead of saying someone else should make that sacrifice.
Why is this so difficult to understand? We Americans love to blame someone else and shift everything out of our control. I just have a problem with people saying one thing, then doing another. I know that I enjoy my economic status, and while I am charitable, I don't sacrifice for the world. I know I don't, I don't delude myself, nor pretend I do. I just wish others(and maybe you are--you don't have to convince me, convince yourself) wouldn't either.
By the way, this board was started as an XTC site, and is still predominately about XTC. Read the forum titles.
[ 17 May 2002: Message edited by: Exx_head ]
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Oh and:
As to working for a politician. I dont think so. Why? Find one who does what he says?
So what is your argument? That the system is fucked up beyond repair and there is no hope, so why try to change it? Then why are you posting about it.
Oh, and I suppose your support of the Libertarian party (which is not too keen on foreign aid) has nothing to do with your own self-interests (i.e. drug use)?
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ex_head said:
Note that I used the word anyone
BA notes on a scrap piece of paper that Exx_head used the word "anyone" :)
and he also said:
By the way, this board was started as an XTC site, and is still predominately about XTC. Read the forum titles.
Well, does that mean that we cant discuss Current Events and Politics in the Current Events and Politics Forum? Even though the board is geared towards Ecstasy discussion?
BA also jots down that the site has many references to Ecstasy and it's affects, but none to XTC. 8)
I'm just a ball buster, dont take any offense...good thread though, lots of different opinions coming together.
But the phrase that I couldnt agree with more is:
I get tired of people implying that anyone who is patriotic is blindly ignorant about their country's actions and policies
Very well said, indeed...
[ 17 May 2002: Message edited by: BlueAdonis ]
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/\/\
You didn't read the previous posts? I asked how putting something on an ecstasy bulletin board would persuade the public, and he pointed out that this was NOT an XTC bulletin board. The whole point being that posting such things here is NOT getting the message out to the general public, but to a microcosm, which most of the public will ignore since it comes from Drug users. Instead, we have to split hairs about whether or not this is or is not an XTC bulletin board. Whatever..
 
And I will also argue that MOST of the people who SAY they don't do the same will not want to rock their OWN economic boat.
Demonstrate an example of what you are talking about... I hate trying to refute a glittering generality.
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Okay here's one:
Little Johnny Bluelight sits at his computer desk and types away about how the world is unfair and capitalism is evil and how the US has done nothing but serve its own means.
He then gets a call on his cell phone (which his daddy paid for with his stock-market analyst's job) from his other America-bashing friend who is on his cell phone riding in his car on his way to Johnny's house.
They meet and talk about how rotten things are for the poor. Then they smoke a bowl and decide to play Final Fantasy 3 on their Playstation 2.
Okay that's an extreme example, but I am willing to bet a 10-pack of pills that there are several folks on here that fit that.
Let's take a more reasonable example:
Older Johnny Bluelight has a modest job, drives a modest car, and lives in a modest house, but says the same kinds of things.
A person collecting for UNICEF calls and Johnny says he can't afford to give a donation this month.
He then decides to smoke a bowl and play Final Fantasy 3 on his Playstation 2.
My point here is that I feel it is hypocritical to do nothing but pay lip service to noble ideas and theories when reaping the benefits of that which is being criticized. [edit--and don't interpret this to mean that I don't believe criticism is valuable. I just think that saying EVERYTHING THE US STANDS FOR IS WRONG is a bit of an oversimplification] I've made this point several times in this forum and it's pretty much useless, because people would much rather believe that they stand for such noble ideas than be self-examining. I really don't know why I bother.
The idea that people feel they are helpless to do anything about it keeps coming back into play, but theyy sure are willing to keep harping on the same broken records and citing the same one-sided views of history to support their arguments. I would just like to see some actions speak louder than the words for once. I fully support these noble ideas but I don't pay much attention to blowhards who only like to talk big. I totally respect anyone who is truly passionate about their beliefs and supports them even if I disagree with the philosophy. While I can't see what people do on a daily basis, I get little indication that there is much more than the same tired rhetoric being posted.
[ 17 May 2002: Message edited by: Exx_head ]
[ 17 May 2002: Message edited by: Exx_head ]
 
How about one that is rooted in something other than a fictionalized example?
I somehow doubt that there is any individual like the one you name.
It has been my experience that the folks that are living off of their daddy stockbrokers are the ones that want to keep the current system in place (ironically advocating personal responisibility, something they themselves are not displaying), because they see nothing beyond their own narrow, unelightened self interest. Even in your example, little Johnny Bluelighter is doing a small something: thinking for himself.
Being a good citizen of a country does not entail being proud of it. Being a good citizen of a country entails being ever vigilant and critical.
[ 17 May 2002: Message edited by: FoX ]
 
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NO! Johnny Bluelighter is jumping on the bandwagon of those who love to criticize the establishment while not offering any solutions or taking action. That is hardly original thought.
If Johnny comes up with an original theory or a new organization or some inspirational writings, then he is thinking for himself.
 
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