Priacetam sticky-- What do you guys think?

[its.euphoric]

I imagine it'll just mean you need even less than you usually do. Someone who had never taken MDMA before but preloaded on piracetam would probably roll super hard on less than 100mgs.

ooh.. sweet!

 

[m c f]

I absolutely love the stuff. Had 1 experience so far with MDMA after taking piracetam fairly regularly. Took it every day, usually once in the morning, about 1 gram (capsuled myself), and, if I didn't forget, 1 gram in the afternoon. Great for school. Toned it down during may, just once a day, 4 times a week. During a certain festival on memorial day weekend, dosed MDA (fun, trippy), then MDMA (clean roll) 3 hours later. Very long and very awesome roll. Seemed like it just kept going and going, was up for 8 hours after the 2nd drop and it was well into the next day. Preload: 1 g vitamin C, 1 g piracetam. Didn't have a chance to take either again for another day.
Now I take piracetam once a day just in the morning, and got a friend into taking it. I'll keep you posted next time I roll, which will be a while most likely, I space those out.

Btw piracetam is also synergistic with coke, makes one less chatty and gives more body buzz.

 

[AylaV]

I drew up a first draft on a procedure to have some sort of scientific basis for the claim that piracetam intensifies MDMA, reduces loss of magic, reduces hangover. I ran into a few kinks, though. MDMA is very subjective based on mindset and setting. I'm having difficulty of thinking of a way to provide a controlled environment. I could ask for details on "the best part" of the roll and the "worst part" of it to try and evaluate whether environment could have negatively skewed the results, but then my own judgment would become the bias. Any ideas on how to work around this? Would remote observation be a better option than a questionnaire? I wouldn't think so as MDMA's "magic" is primarily psychological and can't be observed through physical behaviour. I'm stumped =\

 

[AndroidsDreamofBTC]

I would love if we opened a thread like this, a long time ago I wanted write a Piracetam FAQ for BL, but I never got around to it.

I don't about doing a sticky thread on formal research on Piracetam. But I think a Piracetam FAQ thread followed by user responses/trip reports/discussion would be a great idea. AylaV report and all the other recent Piracetam threads (and me being an unemployed graduate) have inspired me to make a rough draft for this FAQ!

Something like this:

What is Piracetam?
Piracetam is a nootropic first synthesized in 1964. Nootropics are also know as "smart drugs". The primary purpose of nootropic drugs is to enhance cognitive abilities and help deal with cognitive decline. Studies involving Piracetam have been conducted on variety of persons with cognitive difficulties ranging from children with Down's Syndrome to older drivers. Research has been largely inconclusive with regards to Piracetam's effectiveness in improving cognitive abilities.

Piracetam and Recreational Drugs
Piracetam has been reported to enhance the effects of a variety of drugs including stimulants, psychedelics (e.g. LSD, Magic Mushrooms) and entactogens (e.g. MDMA and MDxx type substances). In particular, Piracetam is often used by seasoned MDMA users who feel that the subjective effects of MDMA have lost their novelty. This loss of novelty is often refereed to as "losing the magic". Loss of magic can occur even for those users that do not abuse MDMA and take regular break between MDMA use .

Piracetam and "bringing back" the magic of MDMA
Ingesting Piracetam before ingesting MDMA (also know as preloading) is reported to have a significant effect on a persons MDMA experience. Seasoned users of MDMA report that preloading on Piracetam makes the MDMA experience very similar to the first few times they tried MDMA. A certain feeling of 'innocence' is present during the experience. For seasoned users typical effects of MDMA such as euphoria and empathy once again become unique and exciting. Piracetam

Piracetam and abuse of MDMA
Levi: Not sure what to write here as I've never really abused MDMA. But I think it would interesting to find out more about this. It would be interesting to find out if Piracetam can help people who've abused MDMA (things like daily use for a month, or 20 doses in three months - you get the deal) not be etards. And maybe it can help them enjoy MDMA again once they've taken their mandatory year-long post abuse break!

Side-effects of Piracetam use [1]
While anecdotal reports suggest Piracetam is very well tolerated among a variety of users there reports that daily use of Piracetam can eventually lead to headaches. It is reported that these headaches can be avoided by taking a Choline supplement. Another reported side effect of Piracetam is slight tiredness towards the end of the day during daily ingestion of large doses of Piracetam.

Piracetam dosing schedule [2]
One way to preload on Piracetam is to take a dosage of 1-2g every day for seven days before ingesting a dose of MDMA. On the day that you are planning to ingest MDMA, take a dose of 3-4g of Piracetam approximately 3-4 hours before ingesting your MDMA. Consider taking a dose 1g dose of Choline choline bitartrate two times sometime during your initial seven day preloading period if you're concerned about headaches and such.

Piracetam didn't work for me!!! [3]
Some users report that even with a proper dosing schedule preloading with Piracetam does not have a significant effect on their MDMA experience. In essence Piracetam does not help them "bring back the magic". While it is quite likely that certain users will get no benefit from preloading with Piracetam, there are several variables that could mute the effects of preloading with Piracetam. For instance, as Piracetam has a significant effect on the dopamine system, ingesting Piracetam with a stimulant such as caffeine a few days before your scheduled ingestion of MDMA would lower dopamine levels thus making the roll less pronounced. There could be many similar variables that could effect your Piracetam schedule.

[1]Personally I've only had 'weird' headaches two times while being on a Piracetam schedule. While both these times I was not taking Choline supplements, there are just two many variables to come up with a definitive conclusion. A lot of users report that Choline supplements help them avoid headaches due Piracetam. A few users have also reported that Choline supplements have actually muted the effects of Piracetam.
[2]I am just using my experience for this one. Many other people take Piracetam daily for months on end for it's cognitive enhancement potential. This method is 'play-it-safe' method solely for the purposes of enhancing the effects of MDMA and 'bringing back the magic' for seasoned users.
[3]This information is based on anecdotal evdience and has not been subjected to rigorous scientific analysis.

References:
Erowid: Piracetam FAQ
Wikipedia Article on Piracetam
Len Leshin's Piracetam Research Page

Suggestions, additions, criticisms and comments are welcome! Hopefully, the mods will let us setup a Piracetam sticky. Although I am sceptical, they don't seem to like stickies, but lets see what happens!

@AylaV
Myabe you should post your work over hear? So we can take a look. I think we should try and combine our efforts to create a sort of Super FAQ both with a both Piracetam + MDMA guide and an forum based research section. Maybe we should get a Wiki or something if you're interested in this little project! Regarding your questions, I think it's a little pointless to have a fixed questionnaire and I think we should focus on subjective reports that are detailed and describe what kind of drugs/supplements the users have been taking two weeks before their roll. This way people who read our little thread (that might or might not get stickied) would be able to decide on their own. This thread would simply be a quick access point for the FAQ/Experience Reports/Links to Further Reading. Tell me what you think.


Here is my Piracetam experience. This is when I first tried combining it with MDMA.

Recently me and two of my friends J and M decided to go do some MDMA at a small rave at a venue in the middle of nowhere. We decided to do 160mg of MDMA, 13mg of Adderall and preload on piracetam and choline bitartrate. The MDMA would be divided into two doses of 80mg. The Adderall would be taken with the first dose.

I had been taking around 2.8g of piracetam and .7g of choline bitartrate daily for seven days before the rave. M had been taking around 2g piracetam and .7g of choline bitartrate for the previous three days and J preloaded around 2g of piracetam and .7g of choline bitartrate before taking the MDMA.

On the day of the rave we all took 2g of piracetam and .7g of choline bitartrate around 70 minutes before ingesting the first dose of the MDMA. We got to the venue in 30 minutes. After getting inside and checking the place out, we took the second dose of MDMA.

Until this point the MDMA experience had seemed pretty normal. We were all a little bit down and lethargic during the come up. I danced at the dancefloor a little bit, but I didn't seem to have that much energy at that point. I first noticed a new feel to the MDMA experience around 25 minutes after taking the second dose. While my thought process seemed quite clear, I still felt as if I was rolling really hard, I thought it was comparable to my first MDMA experience.

It was a lot easier to look into things with a positive MDMA outlook, but still retain a clear head. I felt comfortable with analyzing my life and I was really happy about it. I felt great about all my friends, my family and all my experiences in this crazy world. I normally get similar sort of thoughts on MDMA, but this time everything felt a lot more lucid and immersive. I would say the entactogenic effects were unusual in that they reminded of the first time I had a really good time on MDMA. The whole experience felt very profound, more so than a typical dose of just MDMA in a comparable environment and mental mindset.

M and J had largely agreed with my observations. M suggested that this trip was cool in its own way, rather than it being 'a whole new take' on doing MDMA, but he did agree on the prominence of entactogenic thoughts. M had also written a short poem during peak. It was about the psychedelic experience, that was really cool. He doesn't normally write poems on MDMA and I don't think he has been writing anything recently. J agreed that the this trip felt kind of like the first time one has a good MDMA experience. He also agreed that this experience had a new quality to it.

While I was analyzing my life during the peak of the trip, I was also having a lot fun. Dancing was incredible, it was great talking to random strangers. We were having some pretty good conversations between ourselves. Around 3.5 hours after taking the first dose, M seemed to have crashed from the adderall. He wasn't dancing and it seemed like he was ready to head out. So in another 45 minutes we decided to head out from the venue.

The come down seemed pretty gentle, definitely not as 'irritating' as a typical MDMA come down. I sometimes have some pretty bad anxiety during the come down, but this time I felt pretty good, it was almost like an afterglow. Once we got back to our hotel room, we smoked a bunch of dank weed and that really helped. It was almost like the weed was acting in a synergistic manner with the 'remains' of the MDMA experience.

We were all really pretty tired on the next day, but that is mostly because we didn't get a lot of sleep. I think J didn't sleep at all, he spent the whole morning talking to this chick. M and I got maybe 2 hours of sleep. Overall, while I was tired on the following day, I had a pretty positive outlook on things. I feel like I have the power to change stuff in my life and to not let unimportant things bring me down.

I think it is crazy how preloading on piracetam + choline can have such an effect on MDMA. Preloading on piracetam + choline for a few days before the roll really added to the experience I think, but on the other hand I tend to get strong entactogenic effects from a lot things. For instance, for me MDMA effects are always mentally psychedelic, I never find them to be just euphoric and/or empathic.

 

[Godzilla]

holly shit levictus that was an awsome write up and perfect sugestion. I love to see people come together for the benefit of peoples health and the "blue light community"

AvlaV-- You are right and your attempts at a controled scientific quantitaive study are wonderful but close to impossible. This really has to be more of a subjective type of research or as researchers call it " qualitative study ".

Qualitative studies are well respected. Its been a while since i finsihed grad school and am not as familiar with the terminology as some of you guys but we are all heading in the right direction.

Please keep this thread alive until we come up with a general consensus as to what to do about our priacetam study.

Either way this will benefit the community.
I have spoken with the "local community" about this and they are excited to see if priacetam works and give their input. I have started serving as the "local educator" on the subject. The local people are happy to contribute their expieriences and want to try something new becasue they have abused MDMA in the past and most of them have very high tolerances and lost the magic. They were unaware of the dangers of MDMA and now feel that priacetam and the new knowlegde that I am providing them may give them a second chance and also allow them to use MDMA "more responsibally"

I cant wait to share their expieriences as well has mine. As we report back to this thread or a priacetam sticky we will be able to form a general consensus.
So we need a subjective or qualitative study, with continued research in this area.
Like I said qualitative research is also well respected.

 

[Pans-Advocate]

Just ordered a half kilo of piracetam. I'll check my local herbs and supplements shop for some choline if I start getting headaches.

 

[Vanille_Oerba]

I'm also interested in this piracetam-mdma combination.

Yesterday I bought 60 caps of Piracetam 1200mg and started to take it. I want to roll this friday (or maybe saturday, don't know yet) so I'll be taking 2 of piracetam caps/day.
The question is how much piracetam should I take *before* rolling? I mean 1h before rolling, something like 2000mg would be enough?

I will tell you how this combo works for me after the weekend ;-)

 

[Godzilla]

I believe 3-4 grams about 4 hours before dropping then another 3-4 grams the day after.

 

[pmastafunk]

I am currently on a two week regime of 1600mg/day of piracetam and 375mg pills of choline. I'm rolling next Saturday at a massive for which afterwards I can provide a detailed report.

 

[RGB]

Piracetam is indeed quite sticky. 8)

Funny that this issue is coming up again...when I joined, my first post was about my experiences with piracetam. I personally didn't find it to make a huge difference, but then again I've never "lost the magic". It definitely reduces the next-day "blah" feeling, not only with MDMA but with alcohol as well. I frequently use it as "hangover medication" to get rid of that annoying mental fog.