Benzos Prescribed benzos and recreational Suboxone...need advice!

[stillirie]

Prescribed benzos/doing recreational Suboxone...need advice!

Ok, so a little bit about me.

I am diagnosed with HPPD, PTSD, Anxiety Disorder w/o Agoraphobia, and OCD. I saw a doctor finally after one day led my stress to a breaking point and I had persistent hallucinations and flashbacks. Because HPPD is incurable, I was started on Benzodiazepine therapy.

Now, I had been prescribed Benzos before, abused them, and learn my lesson real tough in rehab. I use them as a tool, not a toy, because those withdrawals last time really sparked my HPPD. I've dealt with it because it comes and goes, and I was prescribed Neurontin for a while, but I didn't go back to benzos except for a recreational Xanax dose every once in a while for no reason. In April, I had a breakdown where if I hadn't gotten to the doctor's office right away at my university I would have had to go to the psych ward due to a complication of symptoms that had built up over stress. The talk of my history, medical and personal, led to the decision, and I, reluctantly, agreed.

Because my Benzo tolerance was semi-permanent (some argue that once you have a tolerance to benzos, it does not go away for years), I was started at 2mg/daily Clonazepam for the treatment of the HPPD/PTSD/Anxiety, and then moved up to 3mg, one 1mg tablet three times a day. Sometimes I would take an extra one before bedtime if I was having a rough day, but it was working.

This past Monday I went to my Human Anatomy class and decided started having manic-like rebound symptoms, due to my increased tolerance (and the cup of cappuccino probably didn't help that morning) and made an emergency visit to the clinic. I was prescribed #30 Xanax 1mg PRN. I had an appointment today with my main physician and he increased my Klonopin dose to 4mg daily, 2mg tablets twice a day, and Xanax 2mg tablets PRN. (every 6 hours as needed 1-2mg...but I'm going to take them sparingly) I've got a #60 count in each and I'm thinking I might sell more of the Xanax than take them, but I also don't want to break the law. I'm smoking bud too on a fairly regular basis, and I live in a medical state, and it helps me be productive and give me an added boost throughout the day, depending on the strain of course. The reason I was prescribed those scripts also had to do with my baseline medication (Clonazepam) failing to work at the prescribed dose due to tolerance, and my doctor felt it necessary for me to be on a short-intermediate acting triazalobenzodiazepene (Alprazolam; we discussed Triazolam but that's more for sedation, and I don't need that) as an "insurance" in case something happens during the day as a breakthrough medication.

The problem is I met a connect who I was selling some of my kpins to. She had 8mg strips of Buprenorphine (Suboxone) and I have played with opiates in the past, and really have kept my nose clean. I decided to trade some of my kpins for the sub, and had a wonderful (dangerous, I know, believe me!) and noddy high that night. I've done the same thing twice more (traded some of my benzos for sub strips) and have been taking bupe recreationally at 3mg at a time, and then 2mg at the end of the strip. I don't buy a strip often; maybe like once a week, but recently I've bought one for the past 5-6 days straight I believe. I just took the last 2mg and half a bar of Xanax about an hour and a half ago, plus my usual 2mg of Klonopin. In an hour if I'm feeling up to it I'll take the other half of my Xanax, but I'm just worried right now. I have such a tolerance to benzos (for 3mg of kpin not to work on me, all 3 dosed ~45 minutes apart!) and now I have a tolerance to Suboxone. I need to stop the Suboxone now, enjoy the high I have tonight, eat the edible and smoke another bowl maybe, eat the other half of my Xanax, smoke some cigarettes, play some Counter-Strike, and relax. I have have bupe w/d, I know they're gonna be a pain and I know I can easily trade some of my bars for more...but I know I shouldn't, because it'll just raise my tolerance more and its sketchy and illegal as fuck, and I am prescribed this medicine for legitimate needs and hate selling to people that abuse them like I once did, but like everyone else, I need to make money. The reason I did it to begin with though, was to taper from my benzos. With bupe and benzos, you take significantly less benzos, and since Klonopin and Suboxone last such a long time, I don't have to redose often, but it raises my tolerance big time.

So I'm debating. Should I stop the Suboxone asap? What should I do about my Benzodiazepenes? Whats a good schedule to take my Clonazepam with taking the least amount of Alprazolam as possible? All I know is I'm already probably on a slippy slope.

Update: I wrote this a few days ago. Since then I made an attempt to quit this past Friday (when I wrote this initially), and then yesterday I had to make a sell and was around the sub strips again...I couldn't resist getting one for free so I took it. Took half last night (not at once, at intervals) and pulled an all nighter. Going to class in a few hours and about to redose the last of it and try and to quit. Problem is every time I try and quit I get so lazy and lethargic, despite the arsenal of benzos, calcium antacids, solubilized ibuprofen, NSAID, and cannabis I have for them. I just get very lazy and have no motivation sometimes except to lay on my bed and watch TV. I don't even have enough motivation to come online and post during those times. But the Suboxone gets rid of that and allows me to focus and have a productive day (albeit, noddy) but I've been playing with this stuff a little too long. I've also withdrawn from Human Anatomy after an in-depth discussion with my professors about my best interest as a student and maintaining my GPA. I just couldn't keep up with the pace of Human Anatomy since I didn't take any of the Biological prerequesite courses (as its not my major; History is) and the detail of memorization was too much for me to handle. Both professors are aware of my disorder as I made them aware the first day, and perhaps the medication is messing with my memorization, but regardless, when studying sober and with classical music blaring, I still can't get it down. It's just one of those things I took for some extra credits and did not correctly assume the magnitude that this course would be. With my professors and parents in agreement, all I've got to focus on until next session (starting Jul. 2) is Yoga, so I can have some time to withdraw from Suboxone if I get them, because I have heard stories of people taking Suboxone on low doses just for a couple weeks and getting off of it pretty easily.

tl;dr: Prescribed Klonopin 2mg 2x/day (got a higher dose since last visit with doctor on Friday this past week), Xanax 2mg PRN (every 6 hours as neeeded, and giving me way more than I need..) and have been dabbling with Suboxone (Buprenorphine 8mg) SL strips by trading it for my own benzos or paying at discounted prices. It helps cut down my benzo intake but also increases my chance of dependence with it. I've been taking it on and off almost every day coming up on 3 weeks, only at 2-3mg doses at a time. Maybe I'll take 3mg for example and then 5 hours later dose 1.5mg and get way higher. Suboxone is weird like that, but that's how I've been dosing. Should I quit now? How bad will the w/d's be, and having an arsenal of benzos, calcium antacids, solubilized ibuprofen, NSAID (paracetamol with caffeine) and high quality cannabis, how much should I expect to suffer? Also, all my Xanax has been sold (mods, edit out details as you see fit if I'm breaking any rules. Been lurking for years but only been posting for about a month or two occasionally) so I don't have "insurance" so to speak, so if I need extra benzos I'll have to buy them from someone.

Also, one more thing. On my Klonopin script bottle it tells me my insurance (or most insurance) refills on or after 5 days before the 30 day wait for the refill; I don't have such a label on my Xanax script however, so maybe it has to do with taking an extra one if neccessary because my doc and me did talk about that..but I just found that interesting. I thought with Schedule IV substances especially you have to wait the full 30 days or whatever amount of days the qty lasts that you were prescribed in order to be refilled.

Thanks for your comments and concerns, I appreciate it, and I'm sorry if I repeated myself at all.

 

[phatass]

^^agreed, sub will only boost your mood and motivation for a few weeks, then as above poster said you will NEED it to feel normaal, and won't get any mood lift, euphoria or boost of motivation, unless ou up the dose, but eventually you'll get to a point when you can't up the dose anymore (i think subs ceiling dose is around 24-32mg) and then you will be in a hellish situation, even without taking into acount your various psychiatric dissorders....

stop the sub, will power, aand try to stick to a reasonable benzo regime, i know clonazepam had little to no effect on me, i think its one of the worst of the 17 benzos i've tried....

also wouldn't HPPD respond better with an anti-psychotic treatment... talk to your doc about this, i'm no expert, just a thought

also if you're interested google "PTSD psylocibin mushrooms", theres some interesting research/info

 

[stillirie]

^^agreed, sub will only boost your mood and motivation for a few weeks, then as above poster said you will NEED it to feel normaal, and won't get any mood lift, euphoria or boost of motivation, unless ou up the dose, but eventually you'll get to a point when you can't up the dose anymore (i think subs ceiling dose is around 24-32mg) and then you will be in a hellish situation, even without taking into acount your various psychiatric dissorders....

stop the sub, will power, aand try to stick to a reasonable benzo regime, i know clonazepam had little to no effect on me, i think its one of the worst of the 17 benzos i've tried....

also wouldn't HPPD respond better with an anti-psychotic treatment... talk to your doc about this, i'm no expert, just a thought

also if you're interested google "PTSD psylocibin mushrooms", theres some interesting research/info

I was prescribed Seroquel XR 400mg for a while but it gave me RLS at bedtime and made me a zombie. I've tried loads of TCA's, SSNRI's, and SSRI's and nothing has really worked for me. But my doctor doesn't seem to want to explore any other options either...which I found ot be odd.

Thanks for the input so far, really apreciated. I'm on my last dose of Suboxone today, about half a 8mg strip. After today is gone it will be pure willpower because I had experienced cravings on Sunday when I got it, but they weren't too strong. Hopefully these benzos and cannabis will help, but the fact I'm running out of money doesn't help things at all either.

I found this a bit hard to type. I'm enjoying my nod tonight because I really will make a solid attempt at quitting Suboxone for good this time.

As far as benzos go though, which ones would you prefer (that are prescribed here in Michigan, in the United States) over a Klonopin/Xanax regiment for my disorder?

EDIT: Would it be better off to do a taper regimen for the Bupe? Problem is, I can't trade/sell any benzos because I need all of them until my next refill, and I don't think I'd be able to afford any strips. Is it okay to do this CT and will the Benzos help? 2mg Clonazepam has proven to be a very effective drug for me.

 

[Deblanc]

... here's my advice: stop. Now. Before it is too late. Sub is a tricky tricky drug, and trust me on this-any good feelings and enjoyable effects WILL NOT LAST. Before you know it you will be taking it to feel normal, and WD from Sub is no picnic.

I agree with this. And in the interest of HR I will also add that if you truly need these benzo scripts (and I'm not arguing if you do or don't, i also have HPPD and PTSD and have been more or less where you are with benzos) you should consider not selling or trading your scripts for other drugs. That puts you one OD away, one arrest away, one mistake away, on your part or for the other party, from being dropped by your school or doctor. Kicking subs is hard. Getting a forced medical taper from your current dosage down to a bare minimum then maybe Seroquel or another antipsychotic instead will leave you in mental anguish much longer. I've seen that happen to people who where rolling in their legitimate benzo scripts long term, and it isn't pretty. It fucks your shit up. And you could find yourself out of school, too. Be careful. It isn't smart and it isn't worth it.

 

[Tommyboy]

^^agreed, sub will only boost your mood and motivation for a few weeks, then as above poster said you will NEED it to feel normaal, and won't get any mood lift, euphoria or boost of motivation, unless ou up the dose, but eventually you'll get to a point when you can't up the dose anymore (i think subs ceiling dose is around 24-32mg) and then you will be in a hellish situation, even without taking into acount your various psychiatric dissorders....

I don't think that the loss of effects from suboxone have much to do with the ceiling dose. No matter the dose, it seems that after 3 consecutive days it loses almost all of its recreational value, and after 5 days you just take it to get the energy boost which I associate with relief of withdrawal symptoms.

Even if you take 4mg for 3 days, and then 24mg on day 4, it doesn't hit you like you would expect a dose 6x that of what you were previously on to feel like. I've gone back and forth between 8mg and 32mg back when I was originally prescribed it, and it pretty much all felt the same, other than maybe a little more relief of withdrawal symptoms if I was used to the higher dose. The only time that I got any decent effects from it was when I took 3 days off and was in withdrawal, but even then it was just a nice buzz for a few hours, and was nowhere near as good as it was for the first 3-4 days I was on it.

Suboxone is such a tease if you intend to use it recreationally. You can get super high the first few days, nodding out after a few hours of cleaning like mad, but just a few short days later pretty much all the fun it over. I have yet to come across a drug that loses its recreational effects as fast as suboxone does. Best case scenario is you use it 1-2x a week at 1-2mg doses, and if you aren't using any other opioids this may get you high for a while, but realistically I can only get a good high off of suboxone like 3x a month.

 

[stillirie]

Suboxone is such a tease if you intend to use it recreationally. You can get super high the first few days, nodding out after a few hours of cleaning like mad, but just a few short days later pretty much all the fun it over. I have yet to come across a drug that loses its recreational effects as fast as suboxone does. Best case scenario is you use it 1-2x a week at 1-2mg doses, and if you aren't using any other opioids this may get you high for a while, but realistically I can only get a good high off of suboxone like 3x a month.

Yeah, that's exactly right. Gives me motivation to get shit done. I'm in the process right now of debating whether to trade for another or not but I think I'll stick with no subs because I don't wanna run out of my benzos early (because I'll have to purchase them off the street to battle WD) etc.

Thanks for the input. Problem is I'm out of Cannabis and have no money again until next Monday. So I have to put up with being basically sober for a few days and it'll suck.

 

[DooMMooD]

Hence why it is a perfect choice as a drug for Maintenance therapy and not for abuse.

Little to no recreational effect and little to no euphoria=breaking the positive reinforcement that goes along with most opiates.

In short, if you want to have fun and get high and get all these feelings, buprenorphine is not the right drug. Although i will tell you this: if youre trying to get these feelings/emotions from opiates, its all fake. Those feelings and motivation fade faster than the effects of the drugs do. So its not a very suitable long term plan.

BUT, if thats what you wanna do, I'd recommend any full agonist other than methadone (Which will have you feeling goooooood but is tricky to dose and the good feeling is not as "intense" so to speak compared to oxy morphone/codone, hydro morphone/codone, codeine, morphine, etc).

Also I find it kinda funny how your TL;DR was almost as long as the rest of your post :D Kinda defeats the purpose.

 

[obscure]

Phatass mentioned "also if you're interested google "PTSD psylocibin mushrooms", theres some interesting research/info"

I can say, as someone with PTSD from some good old fashioned war, that shrooms can bring up a lot of bad stuff that you don't want to relive. I tried it and far from helping, it drove me into a darkness I never want to see again. Some have have good experiences with it, but if you've got some darkness inside you, shrooms can be the the key to a pandora's box of evils that finally have a kick start and manifest themselves into some horrible kinds of hell. Tread with caution there. Benzos have helped me far more than psychedelics.

 

[stillirie]

Well I'm back, and being a man and being honest. I fucked up again. I had 35 Klonopin left until my next refill and be friend to is addicted to benzos but not prescribed them called me up wanting to buy, and offered a strip. I couldn't resist, but I swear on EVERYTHING this will be the last time I trade any prescribed benzo for a suboxone, or let alone, do suboxone, again. I was just wanting the good feelings to continue and when I dose 3mg and 1mg 2 hrs later it makes me nod out really hard for some reason, but I don't know if that has to do with my 2mg Klonopin dose that is scheduled for nighttime taking. (I took it today around 3:30)

So I'm feeling decent, and acquired more cannabis. I keep getting money and spending it on bud because bud makes me feel better and I know for a fact it will help with the withdrawals, but when I'm on subs and kpins all I want to do is keep smoking and smoking to keep nodding more and more, leading up to 1.5g usage a night, a $30 habit that has fucked me over.

Now, this gives me a bad situation since being my dumb money hungry instinct wanted me to trade for a sub...and I inevitably did while simultaneously swearing in the back of my head that I would never do this shit again. I've taken ~3mg earlier and dosed ~1mg about 45 mins ago and smoked a bowl and I'm actually not feeling too bad. I also spent the other money I made on more cannabis, history repeating itself.

This gives me 10 days, I repeat, 10 days of medication left. I've decided that I will call my doctor tomorrow morning (he told me to call him and he will get to the phone, he has worked with me well over these months) and will tell him to bump my Klonopin up to 5mg a day and lower my Xanax to 1.5-1mg a day, because I was taking too much Xanax to balance the fact the Klonopin wasn't quite working. I'm quite sure I will get new scripts called into the pharmacy, and by the grace of god if it does work I will never ever get myself into such a dangerous predicament again in my life.

No more Suboxone, from here on out. I've sworn this twice before (and you've seen it twice in this thread when I've said it) because it is simply not worth it. But I've been using it under a month and still get high off low doses (I'm high off about ~3.8-4mg right now, and noddy) but I have to stop this. I know I will go through withdrawals, but I have money coming and I will like I said, have an arsenal of cannabis when I'm able to purchase it, the rescripted benzos that I won't sell, period (too damn risky), and solubilized ibuprofen for the occasional migraine. I do suffer from weekly migraines and always have a bottle of Advil migraine on my nightstand next to my meds. Also I take Calcium Antacids. They work great for nausea, and just in the morning when your stomach feels like shit when your drinking a cup of coffee and having a cigarette, from the over-acidic properties of coffee and stomach (HCL) acid.

Anyways, I'm going to play this one out and see how this call works in the morning. I'll call in fairly early, about 15-20 mins after they open up, and explain I need to speak to my doctor. If this is not possible I will ask if he is there, when he is available, and if he's available not on the phone, I'll simply take the bus to the medical center and set up an appointment while I walk in. (they do walk-ins) But I'm not too worried about all of this because most of the staff are familiar with me and know I am a rare case, and know I need medical attention, so I generally receive valuable treatment.

I just want to say to anyone that has said benzos are simply not worth it for the therapy, its not just the benzos, and I use them as a tool, not a toy. You can be on the benzos and do all kinds of other things; I personally enjoy yoga/pilates, hiking, swimming, jogging, and tai chi. Benzos is simply a requirement because of my HPPD, which is my fault and I have to deal with the consequences of the kind of treatment that they offer for it. I know dabbling with bupe isn't the brightest idea at all but it was just that old monkey on my back hitting me over the head again that hadn't been there for years and I'm gonna kick it off once and for all.

I've got enough left for tonight, and tommorrow/tomorrow night. Meaning, I can expect the first symptoms on Sunday or Monday? Either way I have a final project to do on Monday so I'll overcome it.

To anyone out there with bupe w/d experience: please tell me what I can expect at taking (dosing on average) 3mg daily for two days and 2mg for one day and taking two days off and doing the same thing (3mg/3mg/2mg) and then take another two days off and so on and so forth for about the past 3 weeks, except its occurred daily at sometimes 5mg a day as of the past 7 days or so.

Everyones input is helping me out with my decision making a lot. Mods feel free to edit my post as necessary if I stepped out of line, because like I said, I've been lurking since '07 at least, but just started posting occasionally about a month ago.

 

[stillirie]

*bump*

I'm sorry I just really need some more feedback if possible.

 

[phatass]

"Phatass mentioned "also if you're interested google "PTSD psylocibin mushrooms", theres some interesting research/info"

i was just suggesting to look at the info, (patly because its just interesting), it's not an approved medicaation for PTSD, very far from that, and i'm definately no suggesting not to jump to taking shrooms with no psychiatric/psychological accompaniement and supervision, thaat definately sounds like a recipe for disaaster

 

[stillirie]

Well I've tried mushrooms several times. And they did help relieve and I have a different mindset about the world then I did before I did them, that's why my PTSD isn't very severe until I get precipitated flashbacks with rebound anxiety.

I talked to the docs today and didn't get quite what I mentioned, but I got a script of 30 1mg Clonazepam to last me until my refill, where it will be a 2 1/2 2mg regiment. In order to make my medication last though I have to taper down to 3mg for a few days until the refill. So I will be sure to acquire some Xanax to take as needed for that transition.

Doing alright, I'm keeping this updated in case anyone cares, but the responses on here have been tremendously helpful and for that I thank the BL community.