Help! Possible Damage from Early Adolescent Use?

[yd420]

Hello, I am a 14yr old male. I apologize if this is the inappropriate forum to post this in, but it relates to dissociative, deliriant, and cannabis use at what most would most likely consider early-mid adolescence.

This will be relatively long because I want to be specific as I am quite confused.

My story starts out during July 2021 (I was late 13), where my older brother introduced me to the darkweb. Earlier in this year, I consumed THC edibles that I stole from him 4 times, all within the span of 2 months, this was during Spring, February to early April. Anyway, being introduced to the darkweb and it's markets, I realized I could obtain THC oil carts for 6-10 bucks a cart (I didn't know at the time these were "fake carts" and potentially toxic) My family is pretty wealthy and generous, so I could ask for a 100$ dollar gift card and exchange it for crypto that I could use to get ~10 carts. I used these carts, about 2 a week, from July 2021-January 2022. I very shortly got interested in DXM after hearing about it from one of my friends.

During this time, about early August 2021, in fact I believe this binge started on August 11th, I went on a Dextromethorphan (DXM) binge for 4 days. I took 300mg DXM each night except for the last where I ended with 450mg, I also only slept about 5 hours during that time. After now doing research and reading user reports along with my young age (still 13 at the time), I am surprised I don't have lasting DP/DR or psychosis. I also later consumed DXM 2 times after that, a 480mg dose in mid September and a 800mg dose in late October.

This following part I will talk about is by far the one I most regret, because I believe this is the reason I have (at least I believe) HPPD, though heavy cannabis use probably also contributed. On October 30th 2021, I remember because it was the day before Halloween, I decided to take 300-800mg of Benadryl (DPH). I can't remember exactly because this day is a massive blur of me shoving pink pills down my throat. DPH also sucks, not even fun, I wish I discovered this site and the substance subreddits before doing this because I would realize it's not fun and it 100% causes some form of damage.

The week before the DPH I also got into my parents liquor and drank some whiskey, but I don't think this contributed anything at all to my potential damage. After my Benadryl experience I stopped with all drugs except for my weed. This year I heavily decreased my usage after discovering sites such as this, erowid, and the drug-related subreddits. I was clean of weed during most of the early year, but I picked up delta 8 in March after believing it was neurologically safer because it doesn't bind as much to the cannabinoid receptors in the brain, but I don't think that's vey true anymore. I got off of D8 in late may but picked up weed again this June/July but only for 2 weeks and it was some delta 9 flower. As of now I am about to be 1 month free of any drugs. Anyways that's my massive backstory and now on to the more important parts.

The reason I called this "Possible damage" is because, other than my HPPD, and I've done plenty of research and reading user reports ands articles and I definitely have mild-moderate HPPD, but I have grown semi-used to it and it's not as scary as it once was, I don't believe I have any other damage to my brain, at least anything significant. In fact, I'm top of my class and my memory hasn't changed much, so I don't believe I've done any intellectual related damage. I also feel a strange sense of everyday contentment and appreciation for life and the things and people around me, and I'm more social. I used to be quite ignorant to my family and I didn't have much friends because I was a real asshole, the type of person that thinks they are above everyone else. I'm a lot more polite and respectful to those around me, and feel more empathy towards them, and I would never do something as messed up as stealing shit from my brother, a person who I greatly care for and love.

Anyways, sorry for the half-biography, but I'm just very very confused because from the user reports and scientific studies I read, I should be lacking in cognitive skills from marijuana usage and have depression from DXM and DPH usage, but I feel as smart as I was before and I feel the happiest I have been in a long time. I also make sure to exercise everyday now, ever since this past month, something my Asperger's syndrome overweight self would never consider doing before, so perhaps that has to do with the mood improvement? I hope someone with a similar experience or with more knowledge under their belt can help me out, is this a false sense of security and I'm going to fall back into the "trap" even if it was just mainly cannabis? Thank you for reading this far, and I hope you can help me out.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

I went on a Dextromethorphan (DXM) binge for 4 days. I took 300mg DXM each night except for the last where I ended with 450mg, I also only slept about 5 hours during that time. After now doing research and reading user reports along with my young age (still 13 at the time), I am surprised I don't have lasting DP/DR or psychosis. I also later consumed DXM 2 times after that, a 480mg dose in mid September and a 800mg dose in late October.

You are correct in being concerned, regular and high dose DXM abuse often leads to permanent serotonergic damage and/or psychosis. This also most often occurs in teenagers who are the biggest users of DXM. Life long lasting effects.

This following part I will talk about is by far the one I most regret, because I believe this is the reason I have (at least I believe) HPPD, though heavy cannabis use probably also contributed. On October 30th 2021, I remember because it was the day before Halloween, I decided to take 300-800mg of Benadryl (DPH). I can't remember exactly because this day is a massive blur of me shoving pink pills down my throat. DPH also sucks, not even fun, I wish I discovered this site and the substance subreddits before doing this because I would realize it's not fun and it 100% causes some form of damage.

The week before the DPH I also got into my parents liquor and drank some whiskey, but I don't think this contributed anything at all to my potential damage. After my Benadryl experience I stopped with all drugs except for my weed. This year I heavily decreased my usage after discovering sites such as this, erowid, and the drug-related subreddits. I was clean of weed during most of the early year, but I picked up delta 8 in March after believing it was neurologically safer because it doesn't bind as much to the cannabinoid receptors in the brain, but I don't think that's vey true anymore. I got off of D8 in late may but picked up weed again this June/July but only for 2 weeks and it was some delta 9 flower. As of now I am about to be 1 month free of any drugs. Anyways that's my massive backstory and now on to the more important parts.

DPH is not a recreational drug, nor fun drug, by any stretch. When I was a teenager, your age, I also used it twice in 500mg+ doses. Beyond regrettable experiences.

To this day I can no longer take Benadryl to sleep, or any anticholinergic drug really. Seroquel, doxylamine... anything. It vaguely reminds me of those two horror trips.... anything anticholinergic in nature gives me very bad vibes. Maybe some micro PTSD... idk.

The reason I called this "Possible damage" is because, other than my HPPD, and I've done plenty of research and reading user reports ands articles and I definitely have mild-moderate HPPD, but I have grown semi-used to it and it's not as scary as it once was, I don't believe I have any other damage to my brain, at least anything significant. In fact, I'm top of my class and my memory hasn't changed much, so I don't believe I've done any intellectual related damage. I also feel a strange sense of everyday contentment and appreciation for life and the things and people around me, and I'm more social. I used to be quite ignorant to my family and I didn't have much friends because I was a real asshole, the type of person that thinks they are above everyone else. I'm a lot more polite and respectful to those around me, and feel more empathy towards them, and I would never do something as messed up as stealing shit from my brother, a person who I greatly care for and love.

Anyways, sorry for the half-biography, but I'm just very very confused because from the user reports and scientific studies I read, I should be lacking in cognitive skills from marijuana usage and have depression from DXM and DPH usage, but I feel as smart as I was before and I feel the happiest I have been in a long time. I also make sure to exercise everyday now, ever since this past month, something my Asperger's syndrome overweight self would never consider doing before, so perhaps that has to do with the mood improvement? I hope someone with a similar experience or with more knowledge under their belt can help me out, is this a false sense of security and I'm going to fall back into the "trap" even if it was just mainly cannabis? Thank you for reading this far, and I hope you can help me out.

Why do you believe you have HPPD? HPPD is a very definable condition which is almost exclusively caused by serotonergic classic psychedelics of lysergamide, tryptamine or phenethylamine classes. I do not believe DXM or DPH can cause HPPD (at least to my knowledge), if you are having recurring symptoms of one of these trips it is likely something else other than HPPD, possibly psychosis, possibly psychosomatic after having such an intense experience which is not uncommon at all.

Can you describe the symptoms you're having in which you think it may be HPPD?

Honestly, to me it just sounds like you had some life changing experiences with drugs and are now looking at things differently, with more empathy and appreciation, which is completely normal after having an intense drug experience, particularly with intensely positive or negative experiences.

I have mild ASD myself, but not technically Asperger's, and my honest opinion is that you're overthinking it a bit too much, but that's normal for us.

By the time I was 14/15 I was actively using heroin, meth and cocaine. I had already used DXM and DPH in high doses among several other drugs. My first rehab was at 15, my first psych ward and inpatient I was 17. I was quite the teenage druggy. My brain healed just fine, and I went on do to some amazing things before drugs took over again when I was a bit older.

You are very young, and your brain will heal up just fine if you stop using stuff like DXM/DPH. While cannabis is unlikely to create any more harm, it's not going to help you heal from this either if a major stress was created.

If you are actively hallucinating, this is of concern, but I don't think you have HPPD unless you can describe it to me a bit more. It's a very definable condition, not to be confused with psychosis.

I also encourage you to keep exercising, aerobic exercise is criminally underrated and one of the best things you can do for your body, both physically and neurologically.

Regarding cannabis: I'm not going to tell you it's good, or bad. If you can avoid using it, the better. I used it daily from age 13-30 and it ended up giving me mental health problems later in life as an adult. Used sparingly, infrequently, it's not going to give you too many problems assuming you don't already have major mental health issues.

Welcome to BL, I'd love to answer any more questions or concerns you have.

 

[arrall]

from the user reports and scientific studies I read, I should be lacking in cognitive skills from marijuana usage and have depression from DXM and DPH usage, but I feel as smart as I was before and I feel the happiest I have been in a long time

The evidence on cannabis reducing cognition is extremely inconclusive. It is likely that extremely heavy long term use can temporarily impair cognition, but the evidence for permanent cognition impairment is slim to none for adults and very inconclusive for adolescents.

Doing these drugs a handful of times is not going to automatically cause brain damage. Our brains are extremely skilled at repairing themselves, especially while in development.

Regardless, I STRONGLY recommend not using DPH again (as that is legitimately somewhat likely to cause long term brain damage with repeated use of high doses), and trying to minimize your use of cannabis and DXM.

 

[yd420]

Can you describe the symptoms you're having in which you think it may be HPPD?

Ok, so I was not entirely honest when I said I definitely have HPPD, I do think that it could possibly be something else, but looking into psychosis and trauma from drug experiences, I don't think that's what it is so I landed on the conclusion of HPPD. I also could be overthinking/overreacting and as my grandfather would say, "giving yourself problems when there's nothing to give" but I don't think this it it either.

24/7 I have what I can only describe as a toned-down version of TV static covering my vision, is this what people are referring to when they say visual snow? In darker environments or when I close my eyelids, there is some greenish and purple-like geometric patterns, this part is what mainly made me land on the conclusion of HPPD. I never tripped on lysergamides, but from reading what other people try to explain it as, it sounds like the synthetic like patterns that you would experience on LSD or it's prodrugs/analogs. This effect also is very intensified, strangely, after masturbation.

However, there are other symptoms that don't seem to fit in with what HPPD is, also the fact that I never used drugs that cause there effects through the serotonin receptors, as DXM has to do with the NMDA receptors (as far as my knowledge goes) Like you said, pretty much all cases are related to overuse of classic psychedelics. This following effect has completely gone away but was VERY prominent during the first 3-5 months after my DXM/DPH use. I would get episodes of dissociation where I felt like I was at the peak of a DXM "trip", and objects would slightly morph around me. These only lasted 5 mins or so but felt like an entirety. They are completely gone now though which I am grateful for. Writing this out and thinking, I actually believe for a while I had slight drug-induced psychosis, because I also used to hear footsteps running around the attic and the house late at night, but there was never anybody there. But the visual snow and geometric patterns in the dark make me believe its HPPD, also cannabis greatly increased these effects and now after quitting they are not as prominent. I don't what else it could be, but whatever it is honestly doesn't cause really any everyday-impairment, as I mentioned I feel the happiest I've been in a while and I'm still as productive and smart as I was before drug use.

 

[Chris Timothy]

You're fine, kiddo. Cannabis can become a huge distraction, but if the pro's outweigh the cons then no harm no foul. I have messed up my young adulthood with DXM, DPH and weed in far greater amounts (started later, went stronger y'know?..) and I wouldn't declare my brain damaged because of it. DPH is the worst of all of 'em, that shit lingers around like a spookhouse. But even then, our nerdy brains are very pliable, you can take yer thinktank any direction you want. Sounds like your trade-offs have been overall positive, and for the future keep doing what feels right, erring on the side of sobriety and exercise. Dissociatives turned this alcoholic coach potato into a healthy slender monk in tune with natural movement, and I have a sense you're just like me. Just keep that intention set!

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Ok, so I was not entirely honest when I said I definitely have HPPD, I do think that it could possibly be something else, but looking into psychosis and trauma from drug experiences, I don't think that's what it is so I landed on the conclusion of HPPD. I also could be overthinking/overreacting and as my grandfather would say, "giving yourself problems when there's nothing to give" but I don't think this it it either.

24/7 I have what I can only describe as a toned-down version of TV static covering my vision, is this what people are referring to when they say visual snow? In darker environments or when I close my eyelids, there is some greenish and purple-like geometric patterns, this part is what mainly made me land on the conclusion of HPPD. I never tripped on lysergamides, but from reading what other people try to explain it as, it sounds like the synthetic like patterns that you would experience on LSD or it's prodrugs/analogs. This effect also is very intensified, strangely, after masturbation.

I've had heavy visual snow as well as colorful patterns with closed eyes since I was a young child, well before drugs. It's normal. My visual snow has become worse over time, although I am unsure if that's due to drug use or some other normal process such as visual degeneration. My eyesight isn't the best.

However, there are other symptoms that don't seem to fit in with what HPPD is, also the fact that I never used drugs that cause there effects through the serotonin receptors, as DXM has to do with the NMDA receptors (as far as my knowledge goes) Like you said, pretty much all cases are related to overuse of classic psychedelics. This following effect has completely gone away but was VERY prominent during the first 3-5 months after my DXM/DPH use. I would get episodes of dissociation where I felt like I was at the peak of a DXM "trip", and objects would slightly morph around me. These only lasted 5 mins or so but felt like an entirety. They are completely gone now though which I am grateful for. Writing this out and thinking, I actually believe for a while I had slight drug-induced psychosis, because I also used to hear footsteps running around the attic and the house late at night, but there was never anybody there. But the visual snow and geometric patterns in the dark make me believe its HPPD, also cannabis greatly increased these effects and now after quitting they are not as prominent. I don't what else it could be, but whatever it is honestly doesn't cause really any everyday-impairment, as I mentioned I feel the happiest I've been in a while and I'm still as productive and smart as I was before drug use.

It's likely some temporary neurochemical changes induced by the DXM/DPH compounded by anxiety or psychosomatic initiation, but it will go away.

I think you're a lot like me and I tend to hyperfocus over potential changes/damage drugs have caused my brain or body. I'm naturally an anxious and overly observant person. When we overfocus on these things, it will only make them worse and make you worry about them more. Stress itself can bring these things out and stunt healing.

For now, just trust that you will heal, the brain has amazing healing powers but does heal more slowly than the rest of the body. It can take months (or even longer in extreme cases) for the brain to reset back to it's normal state after heavy psychotropic drugs.

Also, DXM does effect serotonin, although it acts as potently in a manner similar to SSRIs (in high doses), but not a serotonin agonist like classic psychedelics. I am not very familiar with DPH pharmacology, all I know is damaging/altering the anticholinergic system is definitely something to be avoided.