Polyamory!

[zaggy]

Polyamory n : is the non-possessive, honest, responsible and ethical
philosophy and practice of loving multiple people simultaneously. Polyamory
emphasizes consciously choosing how many partners one wishes to be involved
with rather than accepting social norms which dictate loving only one person
at a time. Polyamory is from the root words Poly (meaning “many”) and Amour
(meaning “love”); hence “many loves” or Polyamory.

So. Lately I've come to realize that my paradigm regarding love is not congruent with the predominant cultural model— monogamous relationships. My mind just doesn't work that way. Love is free and everywhere to be found, and possession isn't always necessary. I see so many people seeking relationships for the wrong reasons. I came to this conclusion last night as she tried to put the words "I love you" into my mouth when it really wasn't appropriate. That is a whole other ridiculous story I'm involved in. If it gets bad enough I'll probably end up venting to you guys. 8(

I'm relieved that the universe has orchestrated a chance for me to be out of state for 5 weeks starting soon with a friend who also happens to be polyamorous!

Despite everything, I'm currently finding it difficult to be in society with this mindset...

So SLR folks, can any of you tell me anything about your experiences, views, advice, and anything else helpful regarding the world of polyamory?

Much appreciated

 

[zaggy]

Buuuump
No poly people here? Ah well.

 

[rangrz]

Rangrz reporting for duty!

This has always been how I conducted my love life. It just feels more "right" to me, because I can not help whom I love. If I happen to love someone and I deny that, all I am doing is being intellectually dishonest to myself, if I deny it to a girl I love, I am being dishonest to her too.

So, I've stuck with the poly concept as it is far easier. I mean right now, I have one MAIN S/O who I live with and hang out with like ALL the time...but not because I am "forced" to, it's because she is fucking super amazing and made of pure epic win.

Never the less, I do have feelings of love a few other girls, and my main S/O is cool with that (and she has her own other relationship with some girl)

two of the other girls, I am sexual with, and open about the fact I am poly, and they are cool with it. The other two, I am not, because one is kind of into the poly idea, but her BF is not, and she loves him enough to stay mono with him. The other one I am not, because, well, I don't see her very often as she lives very far away but travels a lot to where I live..and I guess we are technically sexual when she is here, but I still hold an intimate emotional relationship when she is not. lolol LDRs are kinda sucky.

To me, possession of someone is logically disjunctioned from love for someone. How can you claim to love someone when you wish to own their body and their very consciousness? It sounds wrong to me.

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end

 

[Eyes On the Roll]

I'm all for this. Monogamous relationships have never worked out for me. Whereas Polygamous has.. when jealousy gets involved then shit hits the fan. You can't possess someone.. so why pretend? It just makes things worse. Let go of everything you fear to loose, and once you do, you can still have it, and you will see that things are much easier.

Just stop caring, and shit gets easier.

 

[zaggy]

...when jealousy gets involved then shit hits the fan. You can't possess someone.. so why pretend? It just makes things worse.

Let go of everything you fear to loose, and once you do, you can still have it, and you will see that things are much easier.

Just stop caring, and shit gets easier.

Exactly, man. Letting go makes everything so much simpler and enjoyable. I also find polyamory great for the very reason that it makes you work with jealousy, instead of acting on it. It's a mindfulness practice.

Rangrz reporting for duty!

This has always been how I conducted my love life. It just feels more "right" to me, because I can not help whom I love. If I happen to love someone and I deny that, all I am doing is being intellectually dishonest to myself, if I deny it to a girl I love, I am being dishonest to her too.

So, I've stuck with the poly concept as it is far easier. I mean right now, I have one MAIN S/O who I live with and hang out with like ALL the time...but not because I am "forced" to, it's because she is fucking super amazing and made of pure epic win.

Never the less, I do have feelings of love a few other girls, and my main S/O is cool with that (and she has her own other relationship with some girl)

two of the other girls, I am sexual with, and open about the fact I am poly, and they are cool with it. The other two, I am not, because one is kind of into the poly idea, but her BF is not, and she loves him enough to stay mono with him. The other one I am not, because, well, I don't see her very often as she lives very far away but travels a lot to where I live..and I guess we are technically sexual when she is here, but I still hold an intimate emotional relationship when she is not. lolol LDRs are kinda sucky.

To me, possession of someone is logically disjunctioned from love for someone. How can you claim to love someone when you wish to own their body and their very consciousness? It sounds wrong to me.

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end

I totally agree with you, and it's great that you've been able to conduct your love life in such a way!
I have yet to meet more people who are into it, but I'm sure I will.

 

[verso]

To me, possession of someone is logically disjunctioned from love for someone. How can you claim to love someone when you wish to own their body and their very consciousness? It sounds wrong to me.

Yeah I used to feel this way, and we had a whole generation of flower children that felt this way at one time, too, and I'm not sure how many of them feel that way today. (Although perhaps many of them still do, as it might, at least in part, explain the skyrocketing divorce rate...)

I'm always reminded of that episode of The Wonder Years where Kevin's sister is dating that hippie who talks all about free love and so on, and of course Kevin's sister is all about it as well... until she discovers that he has been sleeping with other women. Then she's not happy, not happy at all...

I think that we're just a very conflicted species, and I remember watching some special on the Discovery channel or whatever about "The Anatomy of Sex" where the idea is put out there that the size of a man's testicles could be one physiological, anatomical reason for our being part monogamous and part polygamous... wanting to be monogamous but having difficulty achieving that or sticking with it.

Supposedly, primates with larger testicles tend to be polygamous and the primates with smaller testicles tend to be monogamous. (I might have that wrong and it could be the other way around, but you get the idea...) Anyway, but in humans, the size of the testicles are right in the middle. It was an interesting idea, and I'm not sure how much I believe it all but I like to keep an open mind at least.

 

[Comrade Kane]

Yeah I used to feel this way, and we had a whole generation of flower children that felt this way at one time, too, and I'm not sure how many of them feel that way today. (Although perhaps many of them still do, as it might, at least in part, explain the skyrocketing divorce rate...)

I'm always reminded of that episode of The Wonder Years where Kevin's sister is dating that hippie who talks all about free love and so on, and of course Kevin's sister is all about it as well... until she discovers that he has been sleeping with other women. Then she's not happy, not happy at all...

I think that we're just a very conflicted species, and I remember watching some special on the Discovery channel or whatever about "The Anatomy of Sex" where the idea is put out there that the size of a man's testicles could be one physiological, anatomical reason for our being part monogamous and part polygamous... wanting to be monogamous but having difficulty achieving that or sticking with it.

Supposedly, primates with larger testicles tend to be polygamous and the primates with smaller testicles tend to be monogamous. (I might have that wrong and it could be the other way around, but you get the idea...) Anyway, but in humans, the size of the testicles are right in the middle. It was an interesting idea, and I'm not sure how much I believe it all but I like to keep an open mind at least.

Testicle size would be caused by poly or mono states not the cause of such states. Monogomous species require less sperm (smaller testicles) because they are less likely to be directly competing with another males sperm whereas poly oriented species require larger amounts of sperm and therefore larger sacks so that they can compete load for load with other men.
Obviously as those with the largest load would have a higher chance of impregnating women than those with a smaller load (when competing) then there would be more children of high load men than small load men. Since load and testicle size is basically determined by genes then testicle/load size is passed down.

Since humans are monogamous but also polyamorous when they get the chance they have medium sized testicles on average. This conserves energy and nutrients required to pump out huge numbers of sperm but also makes sure that the man doesnt have so few sperm that he cant compete if he has to (like a cheating wife). This means humans pursue two adaptive strategies which are obviously predominantly monogomy and polyamory on the side.

If we were truely a poly species and mono wasnt our basic nature our loads/sack AVERAGE would be much higher.

Of course thats ON AVERAGE. As with everything in evolution there are genetic outliers which also succeed by specialising instead of pursueing general strategies. Some men have small loads and some have huge fucking huge sacks cocks and loads.

Another also very important factor is sexual selection.

African males have larger cocks on average than anyone else in the world because their cocks were often visible to any prospective mates and so their mates could indeed select based on cock size. Therefore, african women bred their men to have huge cocks.

Because we are less likely to have our cocks out in public in the past due to frostbite chopping it off instantly we were less but not immune to sexual selection for cock size.

Cock size may not even have a natural evolutionary benefit other than sexual selection at all! Because men with larger cocks may have been more likely to get partners at a certain rate on average anyway then this became a self selecting, runaway, bias (after it started for whatever reason) as males were produced having larger cocks for the SOLE PURPOSE of attracting a mate. Like a peacocks tail really.

*in past over 100,000 year timeframe at least

 

[rangrz]

Yeah I used to feel this way, and we had a whole generation of flower children that felt this way at one time, too, and I'm not sure how many of them feel that way today. (Although perhaps many of them still do, as it might, at least in part, explain the skyrocketing divorce rate...)

I'm always reminded of that episode of The Wonder Years where Kevin's sister is dating that hippie who talks all about free love and so on, and of course Kevin's sister is all about it as well... until she discovers that he has been sleeping with other women. Then she's not happy, not happy at all...

I'm no flower child nor are the girls I am with. Me and my main S/O are jacked booted government thugs, even if she only reserves lol. The other girls are somehow in the sciences and in any event are not hippies walking around barefoot and topless in a mud pit listening to phish. (pre-med student, molecular microbiologist, clinical psychology student) and the last one, well I am a bit ashamed to say, is a Barista at a Starbucks and is raging hipster. But no hippies.

I honestly LOVE with my all heart brain every one of the girls. It crushes me to hear of any harm coming to them. I place their happiness above my own, I place their life and limb above my own. I want to be around them, talk to them, kiss, touch and otherwise lavish physical attention upon them. I want to see them successful and content with their lives. I've thrown stacks at the hipster and the pre-med student when they needed to pay rent/tuition/other important things. Not as a "bribe" or "payment" of any sort. Simply because, like I said their happiness is above mine, and if giving them some stacks at the expense of me not doing a bunch of meth, I'd rather go without my meth then see her homeless, or see her not able to carry on with studies. I think all of the above show genuine love and affection, and not just lust and sexual attraction.

I know they sleep with other guys and girls cause they tell me. It does not bother me.

not that that really matters, but I figure I'd toss that in.

P.S. interesting posts re: testicle size in primates. I'll search the literature when I am sober.

 

[verso]

I know they sleep with other guys and girls cause they tell me. It does not bother me.

If that's the case, then you have all my respect; you practice what you preach, talk the talk and walk the walk, and it does sound as though you truly love and feel affection for all of the girls you're intimate with.

If it works for you, man, then that's awesome. I just know that, having tried the whole polyamorous thing myself not long ago and when I was younger, I felt very conflicted and could not shake the feeling that something about it was... just not right.

It could be that maybe I'm older than you? I don't know how old you are, but maybe I'm moving closer to the whole let's-have-a-baby-and-raise-a-family sort of phase in my life where polyamory might prove a bit more difficult to practice -- there being children and all, I mean -- and maybe you're still sewing your wild oats?

I don't know, but oh... Comrade Kane... thanks for clearing that up, the testicles and what not. lol

EDIT: Not sure about the whole "cock size" thing, but... but it's possible, I suppose. *shrugs* lol

 

[rangrz]

^

I'm 25, so I'm in between the teenager bang everything in sight and lets have a baby stage? lol.

I suppose it's fair to mention I'm eccentric in other ways too and perhaps this is just part of my eccentricity?

 

[verso]

^

I'm 24, and I've been called "eccentric" on more than one occasion, but I think what they really meant was feminine and possibly gay lol... (shrugs)... I never really cared because anyone who knows me knows that I love the women.

 

[rangrz]

lol, I don't even feel the need to "defend" my sexual identity either. Basically, because it does not make a difference what it is, and also I don't think anyone who is not me can definitively say what gender(s) I am or am not mentally, emotionally, or sexually attracted to.

 

[verso]

^

Yeah I've said it before, and it's not even to brag because, looking back on it now, it's not something that I'm too, too proud of, and certainly not some of my greatest accomplishments, but uh... I've taken girlfriends away from their boyfriends before. I've made an engaged woman give back her engagement ring and leave her fiancé to be with me (after already having sex with her for like two months).

And these guys were the ones who made fun of me and couldn't imagine, couldn't fathom or wrap their heads around my ever becoming a threat to them; certainly, in their minds, I couldn't ever, ever sleep with their girlfriends or steal them out from under them... but then I do.

So yeah, never had to defend my sexuality. You'll come to know my sexuality either by sleeping with me, or by telling your boyfriend that you've slept with me.

 

[lola]

I guess I've always known I wasn't monogamous at heart. I've always enjoyed my body and my sexuality and a major part of this has been exploring my sexuality with different people. I was adamant to lose my virginity because I couldn't wait to "try out" sex and always enjoyed playing with male and female friends who felt similarly and who I was attracted to. I remember one week when I was 16 or 17 sleeping with a different guy every day of the week (most were regular or semi-reguarl fuck buddies and it included a mmf 3-way), and I still remember it fondly I refused to have a "serious" boyfriend until I was 19, always having short-term relationships because the men in my home country are quite jealous and macho and I liked my freedom.

I then found myself committing to a couple of LTR which were mono (5.5 years, then 4.5 years). I loved my partner, never cheated, wanted to make it work... but something inside me had to go on a shelf when I was with these men. There was a side of me I couldn't express, and at least in one relationship it actually killed my sex drive! I always used to joke that the longest I've gone without sex was in monogamous LTR...

I've always known that my preference is for an open relationship. As a woman, I think it's easier to ask for this in a way, my impression (and this was the case with my current partner) is that there are more men out there who want this lifestyle and don't get it than women. I might be wrong but I feel that women are so socialised to look for "the one" (whatever this means) and 2.4 children that they wouldn't admit a desire for this lifestyle even to themselves.

I'd still define myself as open rather than poly, because while I find sharing my body with other people easy - I see it as an adult form of play, and something I enjoy without guilt or hang-ups - emotions are a different issue. I'd only fully share my heart with one person, and perhaps I'm more of a swinger; I think of myself as a free-range chicken I get more jealous about my SO getting emotionally attached to other women than fucking their brains out, more anxious about sleepovers (because of the intimacy of sleeping together) than 5-hour sex sessions. My SO is more naturally poly than me and can maintain emotionally close relationship with several women at a time. So of course I get jealous and insecure at points, and so does he. The main thing is that we communicate really well and we're both able to ask for and give reassurance. You really have to be honest about how you feel even if it's not how you'd like to perceive yourself (e.g. I'd like to find certain things easier but I am who I am, and will only feel more relaxed if I don't push myself to agree to something I'm not comfortable with).

So far, the longer we've been together (2 years now) the more secure I feel and the more chilled I'm becoming. I've also finally started having some more regular fuck buddies instead of just having one-night stands, which means I get to find for myself that I can be close to another man in more ways than purely sex and kink, and feel just as strongly towards my SO - if not more strongly. I also feel a real love, gratitude and appreciation that he can let me be who I need to be, and that I can do the same for him. It can get distracting, there are negotiations to make... for us, our "primary" status is very obvious, we are extremely close and we're not in our 20s (I'm 32, he's 41). We've both been badly hurt before, both divorced and both really want a good solid LTR where we know we're each other's priority. So there are some limitations to keep things in check and so we both feel safe. Off the top of my head here are some:

We don't spend the night with other partners more than a couple of times a month (generally, not a "strict" rule), we tend to rotate them - I have a couple of lovers currently so on average I see one per week! We both found that seeing others too often can become an issue as they can get over-attached and pushy. Obviously everyone knows about our relationship and is cool with it.
We generally try not to spend more than one night a week with a lover, though if there isn't a sleepover we can be as prolific as we like.
We always call each other to say goodnight if one of us spends the night with someone else. Again this is something our lovers need to be cool with.
Condoms with all other lovers!
We agree arrangements with each other before making final plans with others, and
If one of us is feeling too vulnerable or in a bad state emotionally (pressure at work, bereavement, whatever) we can close the relationship to a certain or full extent until the other person feels strong enough to open it again.

Sorry for long post, it's a complicated issue and it takes time to make a relationship work when there isn't an exact template like monogamy - every couple is different... but it works for us so far, very much so

Oh and for more evolutionary arguments for non-monogamous behaviours in humans, read Sex at Dawn.

Lola x

 

[verso]

^

Reading that, yeah, I just don't think that would work for me. The jealousy would be too much... knowing that my significant other is out and about and shaking that thing somewhere else and with someone else.

But I think that it's awesome other people can do it and make it work. It sounds unbelievably awesome and perfect, but, again, I just don't think that it's something I could ever make work.

 

[rm-rf]

So SLR folks, can any of you tell me anything about your experiences, views, advice, and anything else helpful regarding the world of polyamory?

We enjoy our "constellations." My life partner and I always consist of the main bond of the structure. From each other we branch out into other people, some we share, some we see exclusively, some we only experience in combination with others. Its much like stars mapped together to form a small celestial group. Stars come and go, and sometimes our constellation is just the two of us, but were always open and looking to add to the constellation's evolving shape. Sometimes stars break off and form their own exclusive constellations, and sometimes they break away from these and return to their former body. Sometimes stars get caught in the gravitational pull of the others around them, only to be part of the constellation for a few orbits before jettisoning back out into deep space. Instead of gravity, love is the catalyst.

Monogamy is abnormal behavior. Its only normalized through coercion, and harms the evolutionary adaptive process expressed by our genes through the generations. Its far from Nature's design, and wouldnt be possible for the continuation of the species without the unsustainable resource exploitation of modern civilization. It is a tool used to suppress and control the sex drives of women, as well as contain human behavior within a highly predictable set of expressions, norms, and mores. It removes us from the life giving essence of our bodies, from the bio electric connections within our immediate community, from total empathy and oneness with our collective subconscious, and from the very evolutionary gifts our species has to preserve life, vigor, and vitality. If there is such a thing as a fountain of youth, sexual monogamy is the antitheses, and is the surest way to break down our most subtle yet necessary adaptations to the optimal maintenance of health in this very harsh universe. It is merely an expression of subjugation and behavioral control.

 

[panic in paradise]

do you all feel you want to, be rid of these desires? and settle down ever?

 

[rm-rf]

that statement makes about as much sense as, "do you think youll ever get bored of food, and decide to just give it a rest and stop eating?"

monogamy is not a natural state of being. it is produced through coercion. your question contains this coercion, this violent yet subtle demand, and assumes a very normopathic framework.

 

[panic in paradise]

I only mean is if there is an addiction to sex which seems much more likely pursuing multiple partners, believing strongly in "regeneration" sex seems like the a big reason to do so.

I should of chosen a better place to ask that.

 

[Comrade Kane]

We enjoy our "constellations." My life partner and I always consist of the main bond of the structure. From each other we branch out into other people, some we share, some we see exclusively, some we only experience in combination with others. Its much like stars mapped together to form a small celestial group. Stars come and go, and sometimes our constellation is just the two of us, but were always open and looking to add to the constellation's evolving shape. Sometimes stars break off and form their own exclusive constellations, and sometimes they break away from these and return to their former body. Sometimes stars get caught in the gravitational pull of the others around them, only to be part of the constellation for a few orbits before jettisoning back out into deep space. Instead of gravity, love is the catalyst.

Monogamy is abnormal behavior. Its only normalized through coercion, and harms the evolutionary adaptive process expressed by our genes through the generations. Its far from Nature's design, and wouldnt be possible for the continuation of the species without the unsustainable resource exploitation of modern civilization. It is a tool used to suppress and control the sex drives of women, as well as contain human behavior within a highly predictable set of expressions, norms, and mores. It removes us from the life giving essence of our bodies, from the bio electric connections within our immediate community, from total empathy and oneness with our collective subconscious, and from the very evolutionary gifts our species has to preserve life, vigor, and vitality. If there is such a thing as a fountain of youth, sexual monogamy is the antitheses, and is the surest way to break down our most subtle yet necessary adaptations to the optimal maintenance of health in this very harsh universe. It is merely an expression of subjugation and behavioral control.

Bullshit.

Good on you for being happy with who you are but you should've stopped before telling other people their types of relationships are bad and wrong.

I can say bad things about poly amorous homosexuals like yourself, such as the fact your group is the most likely to catch HIV, even more likely than IV drug users.

Monogamy has evolved to be the dominant and most natural relationship form and it's ONLY modern society which allows you to be poly for otherwise you'd have a herd of children to all different women without supporting them all and most of them would starve to death and thus your poly genes would not be passed on as much as that of a monogamous man who looks after his kids. This is borne out in the evidence that we have evolved as mono species and therefore that strategy is the most successful, whereas poly and adultery are behavioral outliers.

Monogamy is about cooperating to raise children, which for the male means you know they're yours and for the female, since the man knows they are his, the man will stick around and support them.


Polyamory is most often associated with polygamy harems and getting extra wives as slaves and others for sex. Poly is traditionally most often about subjugation of multiple women to men.

Without monogamy you will never feel the special closeness of such a bond and for that I pity you, but then poly is about fresh meat, not love.