Police Brutality Thread

[birdup.snaildown]

@dalpat077

Do you think the police should be able to shoot people for running away?

After reading these CEPS discussions over the past year, I'm sure as fuck glad you aren't the architect of our society.

 

[Zephyn]

@dalpat077

Do you think the police should be able to shoot people for running away?

After reading these CEPS discussions over the past year, I'm sure as fuck glad you aren't the architect of our society.

Wow wouldn't have expected that from you. Nice. Really shows how global politics can differ. And the false dichotomy of "left" vs "right" in general vs "freedom" and "authoritarianism"

 

[dalpat077]

I'm sure as fuck glad you aren't the architect of our society.

I think we established this school of thought six months ago at least!

In the perfect world that you allude to though: there'd be no criminals on the streets (save of course for my own associates and who would subject to certain rules of conduct e.g. due respect for law enforcement and no firing on DEA Agents and that may have families at home and that are just doing their job). Old school dude. Old school. Not to mention respect between REAL men and which seems to have gone down the pan in boatloads over the years. And lack thereof a common theme in all of these cases cited here.

There certainly wouldn't be rioting and looting in the streets either. No martyrs or individuals on hunger strike either!

Back to reality from the land of dreams.

@Zephyn's post highlighted an important issue.

So my answer to you is this:

There are certain circumstances under which law enforcement should, and probably are, well within their rights to open fire on individuals running away or driving away. And I've already noted such circumstances (or at very least pondered upon them).

I would find it a stretch to believe that law enforcement simply fire on total strangers that turn and run away from them. Hollywood does not define America!

I put it to you also that as you and I have gone to great lengths to demonstrate: the number of police shootings in America vs. the total population isn't even a blip on the radar. But for sure there's many more criminals on the streets than that. I put it to you therefore that law enforcement will attempt to capture fleeing suspects without using lethal force even it means giving up on the pursuit and giving it a bash another time particularly if it be a total stranger. Were this not the case: it'd be like the Wild West there let's be honest.

Example: when it comes to the apprehension of mobile suspects some departments, if not all, are trained and instructed to stand down and end the pursuit if it be deemed that the continuation of said pursuit could result in a danger to Joe Public. And if that results in said suspects getting away: then so be it. There will always be a next time.

Officer involved shootings such as those detailed here are under a specific set of circumstances. Unfortunately: the media and certain groups would have you believe otherwise. And that's the problem. Not law enforcement!

 

[dalpat077]

I rest my case!

Just released. It was the title that was irresistible and got me first i.e. how does ONE dude steal TWO cop cars? Well here’s how.

Comments section hilarious to say the least.

This one very brave, or fucked, dude let me tell you.

In this case: no idea how come he’s still breathing. Maybe not prudent for law enforcement to shoot the shit out of their own vehicles!

 

[birdup.snaildown]

@dalpat077

Your utopia sounds like a dystopia to me.

I put it to you also that as you and I have gone to great lengths to demonstrate: the number of police shootings in America vs. the total population isn't even a blip on the radar

I agree to some extent, but what is relevant is whether or not the rate of police shootings is higher than other countries. I don't believe that police are intentionally murdering Black Americans because of the colour of their skin. I do, however, think police in the US are accidentally killing more people than necessary... but it's a tricky problem to solve considering the rampant crime problems in certain neighbourhoods.

The level of outrage surrounding police shootings is absurd. The number is pretty low. Given the hype surrounding Floyd, you'd think people were dying like flies.

Having said all that: can you explain to me what is the point of shooting someone in the back when they're running away?

Police should only ever shoot people if they pose a threat to others.

 

[alasdairm]

^ indeed.

I put it to you therefore that law enforcement will attempt to capture fleeing suspects without using lethal force even it means giving up on the pursuit and giving it a bash another time particularly if it be a total stranger.

sure. right up until they shoot someone in the back who's running away.

alasdair

 

[LordOfThisWorld]

@dalpat077

Your utopia sounds like a dystopia to me.



I agree to some extent, but what is relevant is whether or not the rate of police shootings is higher than other countries. I don't believe that police are intentionally murdering Black Americans because of the colour of their skin. I do, however, think police in the US are accidentally killing more people than necessary... but it's a tricky problem to solve considering the rampant crime problems in certain neighbourhoods.

The level of outrage surrounding police shootings is absurd. The number is pretty low. Given the hype surrounding Floyd, you'd think people were dying like flies.

Having said all that: can you explain to me what is the point of shooting someone in the back when they're running away?

Police should only ever shoot people if they pose a threat to others.

With all this police defunding talk we'll be back in the roaring twenties where the gangsters were literally going to war with each other on the streets, and innocent people were getting killed in the process, because the cops weren't showing up to do their job, may of them paid off of course, but why get caught in the crossfire?

 

[alasdairm]

while i believe that a good portion of your bloodlust is simple online trolling, i can't find any evidence that kohler was armed - can you provide any?

the officer in question has been charged with murder, using a firearm in the commission of a felony and shooting into an occupied vehicle. he'll have his day in court.

alasdair

 

[Burnt Offerings]

Shot in the back: When can police fire on fleeing suspects?

CHICAGO (AP) — In decades past, police officers who shot suspects as they ran away were more likely to expect praise than criminal charges.

apnews.com

Some interesting background on the "when can police shoot you in the back" issue

 

[Droppersneck]

The sad reality and ultimate black pill is the fact that most of the police issues we have had are politicized by the establishment to demoralize an institution they don’t feel they control to a great enough degree. Once these police forces are demoralized enough to completely fall apart and have mass exodus, they can usher in federal reforms etc to make sure ‘their guys’/policy are embedded within the ranks. At that point all official propaganda will change to how great the police forces are, regardless of whether or not things have changed. And they likely wouldn’t have changed, at best they would just further ignore high crime areas to skew the stats and only send African American cops to ghetto areas.

 

[Meth novice 79]

@dalpat077

Your utopia sounds like a dystopia to me.



I agree to some extent, but what is relevant is whether or not the rate of police shootings is higher than other countries. I don't believe that police are intentionally murdering Black Americans because of the colour of their skin. I do, however, think police in the US are accidentally killing more people than necessary... but it's a tricky problem to solve considering the rampant crime problems in certain neighbourhoods.

The level of outrage surrounding police shootings is absurd. The number is pretty low. Given the hype surrounding Floyd, you'd think people were dying like flies.

Having said all that: can you explain to me what is the point of shooting someone in the back when they're running away?

Police should only ever shoot people if they pose a threat to others.

The stats disagree with you. Racial profiling is at the core of police training, theyprofile black people as more of a ‘threat’ so are more likely to shoot them over white people.

Between 2015 and 6 days ago, 36 per million deaths caused by police were black people, as opposed to 15 per million who were white.

I don’t see it as nefarious however, they’re just doing what they’ve been taught to do.

Shooting someone in the back as they’re running away should be a hard no, get off your lazy arse and give chase. Apprehending is the task, this isn’t the Wild West.

I have to say too, I was a little dismayed by the final verdict in the case. I felt the outcome was just to appease the masses, doesn’t feel like a ‘win’ at all which takes the shine off it.
How can you be guilty of murder and manslaughter at the same time? US law is strange.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

The stats disagree with you. Racial profiling is at the core of police training, theyprofile black people as more of a ‘threat’ so are more likely to shoot them over white people.

Between 2015 and 6 days ago, 36 per million deaths caused by police were black people, as opposed to 15 per million who were white.

I don’t see it as nefarious however, they’re just doing what they’ve been taught to do.

Shooting someone in the back as they’re running away should be a hard no, get off your lazy arse and give chase. Apprehending is the task, this isn’t the Wild West.

I have to say too, I was a little dismayed by the final verdict in the case. I felt the outcome was just to appease the masses, doesn’t feel like a ‘win’ at all which takes the shine off it.
How can you be guilty of murder and manslaughter at the same time? US law is strange.

Agree with you on the profiling. The cops have been doing that on all the interstate corridors for years and years. Profiling is just the study of human behavior after all. Most criminals get caught by the way they act and dress. Not any particular race because it applies to all.

The verdict was over zealous prosecution in my opinion. I can see charging all 3 in case the jury wants to convict but doesn't want to go with Murder 2nd. In that case they can choose manslaughter. But to convict on all 3 was just making a statement to the public and they had their minds made up before the trial even started. If anyone actually watched voir dire the jurors stumbled over their answers concerning the settlement and their racial proclivities. Nelson tried to eliminate who he could but if the fact that they took 9 hours and 29 minutes doesn't scream juror misconduct, nothing does.

 

[Meth novice 79]

Agree with you on the profiling. The cops have been doing that on all the interstate corridors for years and years. Profiling is just the study of human behavior after all. Most criminals get caught by the way they act and dress. Not any particular race because it applies to all.

The verdict was over zealous prosecution in my opinion. I can see charging all 3 in case the jury wants to convict but doesn't want to go with Murder 2nd. In that case they can choose manslaughter. But to convict on all 3 was just making a statement to the public and they had their minds made up before the trial even started. If anyone actually watched voir dire the jurors stumbled over their answers concerning the settlement and their racial proclivities. Nelson tried to eliminate who he could but if the fact that they took 9 hours and 29 minutes doesn't scream juror misconduct, nothing does.

We all know that the press on this will suddenly go dead silent soon. From there an appeal will sneakily let him off all the worst charges, maybe getting a guilty in some minor charge that will have been served while awaiting and he will be out and gone without so much as a whisper from the media.

Justice is served?

 

[Nurse Ratched]

I think this is why the Feds picked this case up and is apparently going forward with all 4. I mean they are acting like " Torpedoes be damned. Full speed ahead."

The Feds know there may very well be an overturn on the conviction and want to get their fingers in the pie now. Just more bull crap for the masses to get all fired up about. They are actually going to circumvent the States upcoming trial on the other 3 and haul all 4 to Federal court. For what?

The Feds think that civil rights were violated. Yeah right. Like that never happened before Mr. Floyd. Keep your hands out of State cases.

 

[Meth novice 79]

I think this is why the Feds picked this case up and is apparently going forward with all 4. I mean they are acting like " Torpedoes be damned. Full speed ahead."

The Feds know there may very well be an overturn on the conviction and want to get their fingers in the pie now. Just more bull crap for the masses to get all fired up about. They are actually going to circumvent the States upcoming trial on the other 3 and haul all 4 to Federal court. For what?

The Feds think that civil rights were violated. Yeah right. Like that never happened before Mr. Floyd. Keep your hands out of State cases.

For someone’s actual ‘life’ is all a bit too Truman show for me.

What about the actual change required to stop all police brutality?
This’ll all be for nothing if they don’t learn from it.
African Americans need to be asking the big questions, all Americans should be, ‘what can we do to reduce the threat both police and civilians continue to get themselves in so that less Americans die for no reason?’
Expect answers.
The blood lust completely drowned out the point.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

For someone’s actual ‘life’ is all a bit too Truman show for me.

What about the actual change required to stop all police brutality?
This’ll all be for nothing if they don’t learn from it.
African Americans need to be asking the big questions, all Americans should be, ‘what can we do to reduce the threat both police and civilians continue to get themselves in so that less Americans die for no reason?’
Expect answers.
The blood lust completely drowned out the point.

Exactly !!

 

[birdup.snaildown]

The stats disagree with you. Racial profiling is at the core of police training, theyprofile black people as more of a ‘threat’ so are more likely to shoot them over white people.

Between 2015 and 6 days ago, 36 per million deaths caused by police were black people, as opposed to 15 per million who were white.

It has become clear to me that nobody is listening, but I'm going to repeat it again.

1. Black people are more of a threat than white people; and men are more of a threat than women. This isn't racist or sexist. It is reality. Unless you are risk blind (and you feel equally threatened by a child as you do a man) you are also guilty of 'profiling'.

2. The stats don't disagree with me. Black people are shot disproportionately because they commit violent crimes disproportionately. Again, this also applies to men (versus women). If Unless you believe the police are sexist, what you're saying doesn't make sense.

 

[Meth novice 79]

It has become clear to me that nobody is listening, but I'm going to repeat it again.

1. Black people are more of a threat than white people; and men are more of a threat than women. This isn't racist or sexist. It is reality. Unless you are risk blind (and you feel equally threatened by a child as you do a man) you are also guilty of 'profiling'.

2. The stats don't disagree with me. Black people are shot disproportionately because they commit violent crimes disproportionately. Again, this also applies to men (versus women). If Unless you believe the police are sexist, what you're saying doesn't make sense.

Apologies.

I read this statement you made ‘
I don't believe that police are intentionally murdering Black Americans because of the colour of their skin. I do, however, think police in the US are accidentally killing more people than necessary..’

differently to how you meant it perhaps.

And I think you’re misreading me also

Of course, we are all guilty of stereotyping or profiling.
It stands to reason that African Americans commit more violent crime than white men, and why police are more like to draw weapons on them than a white man.
We were kinda saying the same things.
oops

 

[birdup.snaildown]

Apologies.

Likewise. I have a tendency to read stuff extremely fast and have impulsive reactions and then type shit without thinking. I read to fast and I write to fast. My brain is a circus. I need to slow down.

 

[Meth novice 79]

Likewise. I have a tendency to read stuff extremely fast and have impulsive reactions and then type shit without thinking. I read to fast and I write to fast. My brain is a circus. I need to slow down.

I’m only ever on here when I’m high as a kite on meth so my brain is also a circus right now..
What kind of charge and sentence were you considering as reasonable anyhow?
I think murders a stretch, but he probably shoulda got off Floyds back about 5 minutes before he did so he’s still culpable