birdup.snaildown
Greenlighter
blueberry_87 said:
You keep making comments about Black people being treated a certain way by police relative to white people. You can either these statements up with statistics or you can't.
Police Brutality Thread
- Thread starter Anonymous Dissident
- Start date
You keep making comments about Black people being treated a certain way by police relative to white people. You can either these statements up with statistics or you can't.
HatingThisLife
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The statistics are avaiable but you have to ask the question why does this happen?
2 reasons - 1 is systemic racism, 2 is bc of their own actions.
2 is mostly caused by 1 bc you have a large portion of them living in poverty due to decades of systemic racism. Schools funded by property taxes leads to crappy schools in inner cities and places with housing projects, little to no accessibility to good paying jobs, lack of transportation, less opportunity for scholarships due to poor performing schools. All these factors and more lead to people in those situations (not just people of color, whites live there too but statiscally in a smaller proportion) to lives of crime be it joining gangs, selling drugs, using drugs out of desperation, or robbery. Generations of oppression from living in the conditions creating a cycle of hopelessness that is very difficult to get out of. A lot of these kids think their only way out is to become famous as a musician or athelete. Very few of the top performing students from inner city schools even qualify for academic scholarships due to underfunding of schools. Its a vicious cycle that has completely by created by racist laws - i.e. systemic racism. Colored people were led to these inner cities by laws since emancipation and desegregation.
LordOfThisWorld
Bluelighter
Trump did.
birdup.snaildown
Greenlighter
HatingThisLife said:
Let's assume this is true. Why do poor African Americans commit violent crimes at much higher rates than poor Chinese Americans?
aemetha
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Zephyn
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I hate to be the guy but are you sure? I think black people are way more likely to be criminal. Maybe this is racism of my own, or maybe I'm informeed. Didn't mean to post this but whatever, its a result of generational poverty. Which at the same time as we need to let go from. We need to address sctual issues that happened.Ted Bundy murdered girls and women in the 1970s and probably in the late 1960s.
You cannot compare the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, or even very early 1990s to today or the 2010s-2020s. There was no internet back then, 99% of people did not have mobile phones as the ones that were first around were super expensive, cameras were not everywhere, and there was no social media, people including young children actually socialized in public or would go out and it was no big deal if nobody knew where they were.
Ted Bundy - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
I have met and been around two actual diagnosed sociopaths, and a psychopath. They blend in super well, are extremely manipulative, and despite what armchair psychologists claim there are not signs or body/facial language that really makes them stand out.
I am not sure why you are bringing up Ted Bundy versus black people? The majority of black people both in the USA and in other countries are not in gangs, do not sell/use drugs, are good people, and they do not like other black people who are thugs, drug dealers, into drugs, criminals, etc.
d.
Acab.
HatingThisLife
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Bc there are wayyyy more poor African Americans than Chinese Americans!!!
And Chinese Americans arent as effected by systemic racism. And their families traditionally are much stricter and force their children intonhome education and much stronger discipline, at least from my own experience knowing such families.
Zephyn
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That is very true especially if we focus on say, S. America.
HatingThisLife
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Black people are more likely to be criminal bc of the reasons I mentioned IMO. Give them equal footing and they arent prediposed to crime. Its out of necessity or at least a feeling of necessity or bc of generations at least believing its necessity. The deck is absolutley stacked against the vast majority of them.
And as for ACAB, I keep seeing all these comments about good cops...what good cops??? Why arent the good cops rallying agaisnt all these bad cops? Ehy arent they getting thrown off the force. The Chauvin trial is like the first time ever they broke their "blue wall" BS. 9 good cops protecting 1 bad good is 10 bad cops to me.
Those cops holding Flloyds waist and feet shouldve forced the issue to roll him over and give CPR or something. The body cam footage clearly showed they knew he passed out and then they called for a code 3. And still did nothing. That shit happens all the time!! Until they take action against the bad cops, they are ALL bad cops!!
birdup.snaildown
Greenlighter
HatingThisLife said:
Bingo.
I said rate.
@aemetha
Black people are more likely to have criminal records than white people, which influences whether or not they do time. There are a whole bunch of other factors to take into account also.
I am very sceptical about some of the data you presented. How do they know how many white/black people sell drugs?
aemetha
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Survey after survey after survey has backed up the statistic that black and white people use drugs in similar amounts.
You're right, there are numerous factors involved in why that statistic is so disparate. Black people are more likely to have criminal records than white people, yes. Inner-city predominantly black neighbourhoods are also policed far more intensively than suburban white neighbourhoods. That results in black people being apprehended more often for crimes that are committed at similar rates to white people. It doesn't have to be intentional for it to be racist, it just has to be discriminatory. And statistically, it is.
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
I would imagine based on arrests, no? But I have no idea where that graph came from. I'm just saying there is an easy way to answer how someone might obtain said information. of course it wouldn't necessarily be 100% accurate, as not everyone who sells drugs gets arrested.
birdup.snaildown
Greenlighter
aemetha said:
A surveys that asks whether or not people sell drugs is not going to give accurate data.
1. How is it discriminatory against Black people for there to be a higher police presence in areas with elevated crime levels?
2. I'm not convinced they are committing crimes at a similar rate.
Phoenix_03
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Yes I am also skeptical of data like the graph presented. I used to see data like this showing how blacks and whites use drugs at similar rates but blacks are arrested and prosecuted at much higher rates and believe that the criminal justice system was extremely racist, but then I realized these graphs often do not take into account potential confounding factors such as priors. I also remember watching shows like cops and Live PD and being astonished at how often they would pull over black people who were smoking blunts in the car while driving on a suspended license (this is why they took Live PD off the air, can't show police in any sort of positive light anymore). Obviously if you're driving on a suspended license through a high crime area you're going to be more likely to be arrested for marijuana than if everything on your car is legal and in you're in a nice neighborhood and being more discreet about your marijuana use. So, potentially confounding factors have to be considered when looking at these statistics.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
1. Show me statistics to prove your argument
2. Statistics presented
3. Those statistics must be invalid because they prove your argument
4. Rinse/Repeat ad nauseum
2. Statistics presented
3. Those statistics must be invalid because they prove your argument
4. Rinse/Repeat ad nauseum
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
@birdup.snaildown I think you might enjoy this paper. Which was forced into retraction via academic cancel culture because it was ‘racist.’ It implicitly tries to explore why black people do not perform socio-economically as well as immigrants. You should also look into Coleman Hughes writing for Quillette on why African Immigrants do so well in the US.
quillette.com
The Case for Black Optimism
When was the last time you heard good news about the state of black America? Given the way the topic is reported in the media, you could be forgiven for not remembering. Most will be familiar with the standard portrayal: black people are disproportionately poor, incarcerated, born into...
birdup.snaildown
Greenlighter
@Blueberry_87
I've already clearly demonstrated at least twice in this thread that Black people commit more violent crimes and, therefore, have more encounters with police. If you look at it in terms of number of encounters vs fatal shootings, white people are shot disproportionately.
@Atelier3
1. Show me statistics to prove your argument
2. Statistics presented
3. Everyone in the thread completely ignores them and has no rebuttal whatsoever
4. Rinse/Repeat ad nauseum
Surveys and statistics are not interchangeable
I've already clearly demonstrated at least twice in this thread that Black people commit more violent crimes and, therefore, have more encounters with police. If you look at it in terms of number of encounters vs fatal shootings, white people are shot disproportionately.
@Atelier3
1. Show me statistics to prove your argument
2. Statistics presented
3. Everyone in the thread completely ignores them and has no rebuttal whatsoever
4. Rinse/Repeat ad nauseum
Surveys and statistics are not interchangeable
aemetha
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The surveys have been repeated ad nauseum. It's not necessary for them to be completely accurate, we aren't trying to determine exactly how many people are using drugs, we're just trying to establish in what proportions different ethnicities use them. There's nothing in the surveys that make white people more likely to lie and say they do and black people lie and say they don't.
Of course they do, that's the point.
More police = more apprehensions = more priors, more convictions, more police, more criminal records creating barriers to employment and increasing poverty = more apprehensions = etc etc.
It's a self-perpetuating cycle. Those confounding factors go both ways.
Again, the point isn't to say police are overtly racist, or that policing policy is overtly racist. It's to show that the outcomes of the system are discriminatory against black people and therefore systemically racist. It doesn't matter that black people have more priors. It matters that black people are convicted more often for crimes they commit at similar rates to white people. The system perpetuates unequal outcomes from the justice system.
In many ways it's a shame that racist is used so often as a slur. The mention of the word makes people offended and they can't get past that. Please understand that I'm not calling any person a racist here. I'm saying there is evidence of a cycle which results in black people being disproportionately dealt with by the criminal justice system. I'm not even saying that it's every situation, but where there is inequity in a system, the right thing to do is to try and improve the system so there isn't.
birdup.snaildown
Greenlighter
Why do you think that cycle got worse after the welfare system was introduced?
If you look at statistics from 70 years ago: Black people weren't disproportionately committing violent crimes; the single parenthood rate was low; and unemployment was low.
I don't see it as a result of discrimination. Clearly the welfare state has had a devastating effect on Black people. Unless you are arguing that welfare is racist, I disagree with you.
If you look at statistics from 70 years ago: Black people weren't disproportionately committing violent crimes; the single parenthood rate was low; and unemployment was low.
aemetha said:
I don't see it as a result of discrimination. Clearly the welfare state has had a devastating effect on Black people. Unless you are arguing that welfare is racist, I disagree with you.