Police Brutality Thread

[birdup.snaildown]

I don't know about the US, but Australian cops are mostly good.

When I was a kid, we took a trip to LA. When my father drove out of the airport, he accidentally went the wrong way down a one-way street. It had been a long flight. The cop that pulled us over drew his weapon and pointed it at the car then yelled for my dad to get out and put his hands up. There were three kids in the car. When he saw the international license, he suggested it was fake. For an Australian family, this was an utterly bizarre experience.

 

[Buzz Lightbeer]

Apparently when convicted of second-degree murder he would likely spend up to 15 years in prison? That's way off the 40 years max sentence though...

They'll never be able to prove first degree murder though, it'd be pointless to charge him with that. Any lawyers here?

 

[birdup.snaildown]

Floyd expressed that he couldn’t breath BEFORE he was restrained.
Opportunity 1 to call in for medical assistance. Denied.

It's complicated because in the video it sounds like he's saying anything he can think of to not get into the back of the police car. He says he can't breathe but he also says he can't get in because: he has anxiety; he had COVID recently; and he's claustrophobic.

If he wasn't behaving so erratically leading up to the restraint, maybe Chauvin would have listened to him when he said he couldn't breathe?

Watching the video, it sounds to me like he's lying. Tragically, he wasn't lying... and obviously the police shouldn't take chances with stuff like that. They should have given him the benefit of the doubt, for sure, and called for a paramedic. But then how many people would say they can't breathe if they don't want to get into a police car?

I don't know. It's a weird situation.

 

[LordOfThisWorld]

@LordOfThisWorld

They tried and he was thrashing around and kicking them. There were four officers trying to get him into the patrol car. He's a big guy. It's not like Chauvin thought, "fuck it. Let's not put him in the patrol car and just kneel on his neck." If Floyd cooperated, he wouldn't have been restrained... I'm not saying they restrained him reasonably after he repeatedly resisted arrest.



No. Chauvin is more responsible.

I disagree, they could’ve stopped him, if I was on the jury I’d vote lock them all up.

Now That their freedom is on the line they’re all pointing fingers and saying they are rookies and didn’t know what to do, bullshit there is a man buried six feet under because of their incompetence.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

Not stopping someone from killing someone is not the same as killing someone.

 

[Buzz Lightbeer]

I disagree, they could’ve stopped him, if I was on the jury I’d vote lock them all up.

Now That their freedom is on the line they’re all pointing fingers and saying they are rookies and didn’t know what to do, bullshit there is a man buried six feet under because of their incompetence.

What charges are the other officers present during Floyd's death facing?​

Three other Minneapolis officers who were present during the encounter with Floyd — J. Alexander Kueng, Thomas Lane and Tou Thao — each face two charges: aiding and abetting both second-degree unintentional murder and second-degree manslaughter. On those charges, prosecutors will need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the three intentionally aided, advised, hired, counseled or conspired with Chauvin. If prosecutors fail to convict Chauvin, the case against the other officers becomes tougher to prove.

bullshit there is a man buried six feet under because of their incompetence.

True.
But discussion around this should take place in comparison to the charges imo, all the rest is pointless.

 

[Meth novice 79]

It's complicated because in the video it sounds like he's saying anything he can think of to not get into the back of the police car. He says he can't breathe but he also says he can't get in because: he has anxiety; he had COVID recently; and he's claustrophobic.

If he wasn't behaving so erratically leading up to the restraint, maybe Chauvin would have listened to him when he said he couldn't breathe?

Watching the video, it sounds to me like he's lying. Tragically, he wasn't lying... and obviously the police shouldn't take chances with stuff like that. They should have given him the benefit of the doubt, for sure, and called for a paramedic. But then how many people would say they can't breathe if they don't want to get into a police car?

I don't know. It's a weird situation.

I also read something (but haven’t been able to confirm as yet, maybe someone here knows?) about Floyd having been shot in the shoulder 3 months before in another botched arrest for possession.
I definitely did see police cam footage of him begging the officers ‘please don’t shoot me again man. I’ll do what you say just please don’t shoot me again!’ As he sits in his car with hands on the wheel.

Sort of still irrelevant to his death but offers perspective.

If true it would explain Floyd’s panic (.PTSD) over a repeat arrest, showing he wasn’t resisting he was legitimately terrified.

If false, kind of confirms that he was playing games to avoid arrest and gives weight to the cops belief he was fucking with them, and should be ignored.

 

[Xorkoth]

I think its more the fact that he was on drugs and had a heart condition. I don't think the police screwed up, society put a loaded gun to Floyd's head and pulled the trigger. Poor guy needed a good social worker and some rehab. Give him a job and a place to live, don't force a man to hussle on the street.

I think what you said is absolutely true, but I disagree that the cops didn't screw up, Chauvin had tons of time to stop kneeling on the guy's neck while he slowly died begging for his life. Even 2 of the other cops suggested to turn him over. Society failed Floyd, for sure, but that cop also screwed up very badly, at best.

Its really hard for someone that got literally ass raped by cops (two at once) and someone whobhad a best friend shot 8 times in the back while fleeing all within the sMe 1.5 years of floyd and the riots to not think acab. I've met maybe 3 nice ones out of 25. Even thought about joining to get into internal affairs and bust corrupt cops but fuck colluding with that system at all

I totally understand why you feel the way you do, I'm just saying, not all cops are that way. Plenty of cops are good people who got into it to do something dangerous and necessary.

 

[Phoenix_03]

@Zephyn

It is not clearly first degree murder.





You would be dead.

Agreed that it's not first degree murder there was no premeditated. But, it's manslaughter at the very least, if not second degree murder

 

[birdup.snaildown]

I don't understand the people saying that Chauvin didn't fuck up. Personally, I don't think he's a monster and I sympathize somewhat but he didn't need to kneel on the guys neck at all. If you look at the video, Floyd was sitting on the sidewalk before they put him in the car. They could have tried to get him to sit down instead of pinning him to the ground. I'm honestly not sure what the goal was, long term.

This happens all the time with cops, even in Australia where police aren't gun toting and power mad. I've been held down on the ground with my face against the pavement. I've also been attacked for no reason. Once I woke up in a holding cell with a huge black bruise across my back. I have never fully recovered from this injury. My back is still fucked today...

I always felt like this was my fault somehow (because I was drunk and I argued with the cops and insulted them). Then the George Floyd thing happened and I realized when I saw that video that it doesn't matter what he did or what his criminal history is. Nobody deserves to be treated like that for no reason.

Floyd refused to get in the car and was being aggressive but he had his hands handcuffed behind his back. The force used was unnecessary, but that doesn't make it murder.

BLM is always going on about racist cops gunning down Black people on the street like dogs. I don't believe that's what is happening in America. There's definitely a police brutality issue, but I don't think police officers are hunting down Black people. If I remember correctly, most Black people who are shot by police are shot by Black police.

Chauvin fucked up. He was on drugs and he was confused. I've been in much worse states. This is a drug forum. Unless you want cops kneeling on your neck for 10 minutes when you're high, what happened was wrong.

He's definitely guilty of using excessive force, but I don't know if that's what killed him. It probably contributed to his death and it almost certainly contributed to paramedics not being able to save him.

The charge should be manslaughter, IMO.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

Manslaughter, 100%
If the outcome is any different it will confirm totally that the US system is fucking rigged for white fella.

The autopsy is unarguable, a heart attack caused by restricted breathing.
whether that be by OD or suffocation is entirely irrelevant.

The cop was negligent on every front.
Floyd expressed that he couldn’t breath BEFORE he was restrained.
Opportunity 1 to call in for medical assistance. Denied.

Floyd repeated that he couldn’t breath while being restrained.
Opportunity 2 for medical assistance which just so happened to be ON scene in the nurse witnessing the incident. Denied.

Floyd passed out under the cops weight, a pulse could not be located. Medic on site again begged to be allowed to assist. Denied.

Floyd was passed out under the cops weight for more than 4 minutes!!
this point revival was still possible.
denied.

Zero medical assistance was rendered until Floyd was already dead.
It’s the cops responsibility to provide such assistance under any circumstance, once a perp is sufficiently restrained.
That’s manslaughter regardless of cause of death.

Exactly.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

Apparently when convicted of second-degree murder he would likely spend up to 15 years in prison? That's way off the 40 years max sentence though...

They'll never be able to prove first degree murder though, it'd be pointless to charge him with that. Any lawyers here?

Prosecutors didn't charge with 1st degree. Only 2nd and 3rd.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Does America have the charge of Manslaughter? Or is it the same as second or third degree murder?

 

[jpgrdnr]

I think what you said is absolutely true, but I disagree that the cops didn't screw up, Chauvin had tons of time to stop kneeling on the guy's neck while he slowly died begging for his life. Even 2 of the other cops suggested to turn him over. Society failed Floyd, for sure, but that cop also screwed up very badly, at best.



I totally understand why you feel the way you do, I'm just saying, not all cops are that way. Plenty of cops are good people who got into it to do something dangerous and necessary.

i think more mechanically on cops doing what they were supposed to do and arrest someone, shit went down, they brought him to the hospital, he died there. I'm not going to place judgement on what this guy Chauvin did or didn't do. Axe to fall. I mean if Chauvin is guilty then Floyd is guilty of being a failure as a human being and not even trying to get some help, he was basically a drug dealer playing The Game, and he lost it and paid for his life. He wasn't even a good soldier. Maybe Chauvin will get some prison time. Play a man's game, pay a man's price.

 

[birdup.snaildown]

@jpgrdnr

It's not even clear that the police were familiar with Floyd's criminal history.

 

[✿Dai₷y✿]

I don't care if he is a drug user (it sickens me when people on a drug forum especially will try to use the fact that he was a drug user as some sort of justification for this), or that he has committed crimes

Wondering if the police knew who he was before they began the encounter or at what time did they know as they would have had access to his priors at least point form.

It matters about the drugs in his system when the cause of death can be affected by the tox screen.

That does not in any way excuse the knee on his neck for almost 9 minutes or any of the police idiocy, they clearly are not trained to do anything besides use violence and guns the junior officers wouldn't go agai st the senior either and shows just how dim witted they are.


If cops know they are dealing with a known violent offender then I guess they would use more force.

Why did they not just restrain him in another way. There were 3 of them, why one dude using his knee?


Was this a racial attack or was the victim restrained that way because he was a violent felon big in stature vs a cowardly cop? Bit of both I guess.



I dont know if the cop will get first degree or second degree murder if its going the fent he was on was also responsible and its what will be the deciding factor as well as use of force on a known felon.


This is a trial of an incident involving a death that may not have begun without the riots but has nothing to do with riots or anyone except the involved people now.

Police are too brutal and rely on weapons too much in the States, its never going to change either.

 

[✿Dai₷y✿]

Yeah, Mr. Smirky Smirk certainly looked like he was enjoying it and not giving a rats ass about the bystanders comments nor the paramedics. Bet he cares now.

Maybe he did the whole dominating with his knee BECAUSE he had an audience.

Holding a huge guy just with his knee and being all macho, it would have been an ego boost to show off how ruff he is.


That was probably the scenario...having less brute force and more patience would have saved a life yet made him seem less powerful?


In any event, its clear anything that can sway from maximum charge guilty will be used in defence and vice versa.


There were definitely many other ways to peacefully arrest a man, maybe take more time and effort which would not be in an ego maniacs interests.

The cop involved is contributing to a death, how much so is up to the judge, would not wanna be the judge.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

Does America have the charge of Manslaughter? Or is it the same as second or third degree murder?

Manslaughter was charged along with 2nd and 3rd degree murder. They all have different stipulations. Jury can find on any, or none, of them.

 

[Jabberwocky]

i think more mechanically on cops doing what they were supposed to do and arrest someone, shit went down, they brought him to the hospital, he died there. I'm not going to place judgement on what this guy Chauvin did or didn't do. Axe to fall. I mean if Chauvin is guilty then Floyd is guilty of being a failure as a human being and not even trying to get some help, he was basically a drug dealer playing The Game, and he lost it and paid for his life. He wasn't even a good soldier. Maybe Chauvin will get some prison time. Play a man's game, pay a man's price.

Sorry. Are you saying Floyd deserved to die because he wasn’t a tough enough gangster? Or because he was a drug addict who hadn’t yet reached the commitment to recovery? Because either of those two rationalisations are pretty brutal.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

Sorry. Are you saying Floyd deserved to die because he wasn’t a tough enough gangster? Or because he was a drug addict who hadn’t yet reached the commitment to recovery? Because either of those two rationalisations are pretty brutal.

Yeah, I thought that comment was pretty brutal myself. I don't care if Mr. Floyd was shooting heroin while doing cartwheels down the street and smoking crack through his butthole. The man deserved due process and should be alive today. You do know that this all started in a place called Cup Foods where his drug dealer ( and friend ) handed Mr. Floyd a counterfeit $20 bill to go in and buy some cigarettes. The clerk saw that it was fake and went back out to the car to see if they would give him a real twenty. They didn't. Or couldn't because they didn't have a real one. The manager called the cops and the whole thing went down at a later location when Chauvin caught up with him. Over a lousy $20 dollar bill. Way fucked up. It wasn't even Floyds money and whether or not he knew it was fake doesn't matter. The man is dead and Mr. Chauvin will pay dearly for his performance.