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Police Brutality Thread

I don't think Priest was suggesting that he deserved to die because he was a drug user. If he believes he swallowed the fentanyl (on top of having other drugs in his system) this might have contributed to his death. We will never know, so it's not a very good defence.

I don't believe Chauvin intended to kill him... Whether or not he actually did kill him is hard to say. People who believe steadfastly that he did/didn't want to believe one way or the other.

Bella Figura said:
I hope Chauvin goes to prison for a long time. I also hope the inmates spend every day kneeling on his neck and letting him teeter on death.
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Is that a joke, or do you actually believe two wrongs make a right? We either think this sort of behaviour is acceptable or we don't. Consistency is important.
 
Not joking no, I didn't say I want him dead too - not exactly wrong for him to go to prison for a long time and maybe get a little taste of what he subjected to a helpless man he murdered like a dog in the street. No sympathy for the piece of shit that he is.
 
Bella Figura said:
I also hope the inmates spend every day kneeling on his neck and letting him teeter on death.
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That doesn't sound like a little taste to me. If Chauvin deserves to be treated like this, did Floyd also deserve a taste of the violence he inflicted on others? (Like holding a gun to a pregnant woman's abdomen and threatening to kill her unborn child.)
 
@Bella Figura

I'm not convinced either way.

You're citing an expert witness for the prosecution. This is hardly an unbiased source. Tobin says in that article that Floyd's breathing became shallower and shallower. I'm not sure how he determined this since presumably he wasn't there.

I'd assume if a police officer was kneeling all of his weight on somebody's neck for 10 minutes that there would be some bruising, but the autopsy says there wasn't evidence of any such thing... Also there is no evidence in the autopsy of brain damage, but Tobin says "Mr Floyd died from a low level of oxygen and this caused damage to his brain".

I'm not saying that he didn't have brain damage, but it can't be stated as fact without any supporting evidence other than his leg kicking out.

"Tobin said that when Floyd lost consciousness the level of oxygen in his lungs was well below half the normal amount."

There honestly seems to be a lot of statements of fact without evidence. Tobin knows the level of oxygen in Floyd's lungs by looking at a video?

The logic behind the prosecution's dismissal of the drugs in his system contributing to his death is also suspect. They said he didn't have enough fentanyl in his system to cause an overdose and the meth in his system was insufficient to cause an overdose... but there doesn't appear to be any comment about the combinative effect of these drugs.

I don't think he had an overdose. I think it's more likely that he had a heartache because he was under extreme stress and had a combination of drugs in his system, plus numerous health problems including two types of heart disease... It's entirely possible that none of these factors contributed to his death. Perhaps he died from a lack of oxygen. I don't know. I'm just saying: it seems like nobody really knows.
 
I have been re - watching the FBI/GBI interview with Tau having first seen it back in Sep / Oct. The more the trial progresses and after sitting through Tau's interview again, I cannot help but feel a touch sorry for Kueng and Lane as they were only rookies and without condoning their overall actions they, unlike Chauvin and Tau, seem to have at least experienced momentary concern for Mr Floyds well being, concerns that they, sadly, failed to continue to voice due to Chauvin's complete lack of interest.

With regards to the testimony given so far I am finding the prosecution genuinely convincing despite my obvious bias against the defendant. I am just wondering whether or not Mr Hall will be testifying as the court implied that the decision regarding his appearance was due to be settled yesterday....
 

Fentanyl drug profile | www.emcdda.europa.eu

www.emcdda.europa.eu www.emcdda.europa.eu

emcdda said:
The recommended serum concentration for analgesia is 1–2 ng/ml and for anaesthesia it is 10–20 ng/ml. Blood concentrations of approximately 7 ng/ml or greater have been associated with fatalities where poly-substance use was involved.
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autopsy said:
Fentanyl 11 ng/mL
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So he had an anaesthetic level of fentanyl in his system that was well above the level for fatalities with poly-substance use.
 
The Wizard of the Creek said:
his respiration was normal before the knee causing pressure to his windpipe
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In that video Priest posted, he says "I can't breathe" four times in the car before Chauvin kneels on him. He also says he can't get in the car because he's claustrophobic and he has COVID. It seems like he's saying whatever he can to not get in the car. He's also kicking the officers and thrashing around. They struggle to get him in the car for ages before restraining him.

I don't think Floyd is the first person to try and talk his way out of an arrest by any means necessary. It's probably a pretty common occurrence for officers.

If he didn't say the words "I can't breath" four times before having his windpipe restricted, the prosecution's argument would make a lot more sense to me.

Don’t be cute
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You know you love it.
 
The Wizard of the Creek said:
No, the pulmonologist explained yesterday in court that lack of oxygen doesn’t leave a fingerprint in autopsies. You couldn’t even show lack of oxygen in an autopsy of someone that was suffocated with a pillow, although lack of oxygen would be the cause of death in that case. He went on to explain that it’s a dangerous assumption that if someone can speak they can breathe.

He was a pretty convincing expert.
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Forensic Analysis of Injury and Death by Asphyxiation

If you were to dive into a pool and hold your breath, how long could you spend underwater? Probably less than a minute unless you conditioned to lower your metabolic rate like a meditating Yogi. However, with practice, many people can hold their breath for about two minutes. What do...
www.tasanet.com

The very fact someone was suffocated means lack of oxygen. If no other causes of death are evident, and other physical indicators of suffocation are present (petechiae, crushed organs) lack of oxygen would be an obvious culprit. And losing oxygen can happen gradually, allowing someone the ability to speak up until the moment it’s no longer possible.
 
birdup.snaildown said:
@Bella Figura

I'm not convinced either way.

You're citing an expert witness for the prosecution. This is hardly an unbiased source. Tobin says in that article that Floyd's breathing became shallower and shallower. I'm not sure how he determined this since presumably he wasn't there.

I'd assume if a police officer was kneeling all of his weight on somebody's neck for 10 minutes that there would be some bruising, but the autopsy says there wasn't evidence of any such thing... Also there is no evidence in the autopsy of brain damage, but Tobin says "Mr Floyd died from a low level of oxygen and this caused damage to his brain".

I'm not saying that he didn't have brain damage, but it can't be stated as fact without any supporting evidence other than his leg kicking out.

"Tobin said that when Floyd lost consciousness the level of oxygen in his lungs was well below half the normal amount."

There honestly seems to be a lot of statements of fact without evidence. Tobin knows the level of oxygen in Floyd's lungs by looking at a video?

The logic behind the prosecution's dismissal of the drugs in his system contributing to his death is also suspect. They said he didn't have enough fentanyl in his system to cause an overdose and the meth in his system was insufficient to cause an overdose... but there doesn't appear to be any comment about the combinative effect of these drugs.

I don't think he had an overdose. I think it's more likely that he had a heartache because he was under extreme stress and had a combination of drugs in his system, plus numerous health problems including two types of heart disease... It's entirely possible that none of these factors contributed to his death. Perhaps he died from a lack of oxygen. I don't know. I'm just saying: it seems like nobody really knows.
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The prosecution is wrong for not factoring in the drugs in his system and the fact that, in combination with the physical stress he was enduring, they could have contributed to his death. Especially the meth. It doesnt mean Chauvin is any less culpable for his role, though.
 
birdup.snaildown said:
It says there was no sign of injury to his neck and that he died of a heart attack? I'm not a doctor. I don't know much about this stuff... but wouldn't there be some evidence if he died from lack of oxygen?
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You should not interpret the finding that he died of cardiac arrest as evidence he died of something other than asphyxiation.

"Asphyxiation may occur under a variety of circumstances ranging from non-accidental injury in the form of hanging or smothering, through poisoning with cyanide, to death during unsuitable transportation. Additionally, accidental asphyxiation arises in house fires and in farmyard incidents such as postural asphyxiation where a bull, for example, falls in a handling crush and the trachea is occluded as the neck is twisted to the side or under the body. The final cause of death in all of these incidents is considered to be cerebral hypoxia followed by cardiac arrest." Ranald Munro BVMS, MSc, DVM, Dip Forensic Medicine, DipECVP, MRCVS, Helen M.C. Munro BVMS, MRCVS, in Animal Abuse and Unlawful Killing, 2008


Basically, everyone who is murdered by asphyxiation dies of their heart stopping.
 
Yes, the drugs (along with the fact that he had Covid at the time) most likely made him considerably more vulnerable than he would've been otherwise. However, none of these factors actually caused his death. The video clearly shows that Chauvin was physically choking him by putting his knee on the side of George Floyd's neck, which was what killed him.
 
birdup.snaildown said:
It says there was no sign of injury to his neck and that he died of a heart attack? I'm not a doctor. I don't know much about this stuff... but wouldn't there be some evidence if he died from lack of oxygen?
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Surely there would be physical injuries evident from sustained pressure to the neck?

Smacks of a cover up to me...
 
Lots of good commentary here covering both sides of the argument. I have only watched the highlights of peoples testimony up until today but today I watched the woman Forensic Pathologist ( didn't catch her name ) testify. I was waiting for the medical stuff and autopsy reports before I actually watched any as the last 8 days has pretty much just been bystanders and lay peoples opinions and facts. The medical testimony is where the bear shit in the buckwheat as cause of death is the only thing that matters in this incident. Not the drugs, not the other cops opinions on use of force nor really anyone else. The only thing that matters is did Chauvins actions cause George Floyd's death and from what I heard today it seems that his actions did indeed cause his death. To what degree he will be culpable in causing this remains to be seen but he is indeed responsible. Not the fentanyl and not the methamphetamine. Contributing factors but the man would have lived if Mr. Smirkey Smirk hadn't of acted in such a reckless manner.
 
You should not interpret the finding that he died of cardiac arrest as evidence he died of something other than asphyxiation.
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I didn't say that.

It's a bit odd that nobody is responding about the fact that he said "I can't breathe" four times before he was allegedly choked.
 
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