Police Brutality Thread

[Nurse Ratched]

Nice post. Thanks.

Sorry. Over typing each other again!

Odd thing: I remember at the time I was staying in a complex and all of the units were identical from the outside. And without a word of a lie: at around that time I remember going to the store and coming home and standing outside my neighbors door wondering why the damn key wouldn't fit in the door! And that was broad daylight, not under the influence, and the only thing on my mind was getting the shopping bags inside! And that's not including the few times I've stood next to a vehicle, identical to mine, trying to open the darn thing, only to realize that my car was parked a few parking spaces away! And no: I'm not OLD (well I wasn't then anyway)! To add: best part is my neighbor back then was cop! Only thought about that now. Thank fuck he wasn't home at the time come to think of it!

Exactly ! People do it all the time when they are faced with similar experiences. Getting disoriented isn't hard when it all looks so familiar. I have gone to the wrong vehicle as well and other people I know have tried to unlock other apt. doors. Sad that Botham's door was actually ajar as it was a hot night and he was trying to catch a breeze. So many small incidents culminating in a tragedy.

And passionate people always over type each other.

 

[Zephyn]

Alright. We get it. Well I get it. I've been through this thread. And I've read about your situation and that of your friend(s).

For the sake of my own interest though (and no you don't have to answer):

When those incidents occurred you, and your friend(s), were casually strolling down the street and minding your business right? And then what happened?

No, in either case.

 

[dalpat077]

No, in either case.

Fair enough.

Don't get me wrong though (and before I get laid into by the whole bunch): rape is on another level entirely. So don't you go thinking that I'm alright with what happened to you. Because I'm not. Matter of fact: it rears its ugly head here too from time to time. That and woman being harassed by police officers (asking them for personal details at a traffic stop for example) Rape is by no means, and not by any definition, enforcing the law. That's when the cops become criminals and cross a line and at that point it's open season on THEM. So like I said: don't get me wrong.

Obviously my only reason for asking is because one of the points I've been trying to get at on this thread is that there's an inordinate number of suspects that were doing absolutely nothing (apparently) only to draw attention to themselves, lose their shit for whatever reasons, as was the case with Mr. Floyd, and, well, that didn't turn out so well.

And look. Let's be honest. There's good cops and bad cops everywhere. I know this is obviously highly personal and a sensitive issue for you. Guess all I'm saying is to not fall into the same trap that I've lived in for most of my life by generalizing e.g. when it comes to race issues (and one or two other issues on which I never ever saw myself budging on in this lifetime). What happened to you was inexcusable. But I shudder to think what any country would be like without law enforcement (some would be worse off than others of course) (then again: who knows i.e. of late the shit that's going on in countries that were never even a blip on anybody's radar screen for decades are now making the headlines and would be fucked up beyond recognition were it not for law enforcement). Or maybe even worse: having law enforcement that has been rendered totally impotent by politicians and advocacy groups and the like. And for what it's worth: this not some blind faith in law enforcement. But they have a job to do. As do I. And should those two worlds collide: well, then, it is what it is. As long as everybody plays fair? Maybe that's the real issue i.e. the definition of fair!

 

[MsDiz]

I also want to very much hear from Chauvin. Without his testimony we have no idea of his state of mind at the time. I always want to hear from the defendant but of course we hardly ever do as in almost every trial I have ever watched the defendant buckles under cross examination and most lawyers advise against their client doing so.

It would be absolute stupidity to put him on the stand. The guy defending him is an absolute idiot. I’d say chauvin could have done a better job at it himself. They must be planning an appeal because this can’t be legit defending, surely?

 

[Zephyn]

Fair enough.

Don't get me wrong though (and before I get laid into by the whole bunch): rape is on another level entirely. So don't you go thinking that I'm alright with what happened to you. Because I'm not. Matter of fact: it rears its ugly head here too from time to time. That and woman being harassed by police officers (asking them for personal details at a traffic stop for example) Rape is by no means, and not by any definition, enforcing the law. That's when the cops become criminals and cross a line and at that point it's open season on THEM. So like I said: don't get me wrong.

Obviously my only reason for asking is because one of the points I've been trying to get at on this thread is that there's an inordinate number of suspects that were doing absolutely nothing (apparently) only to draw attention to themselves, lose their shit for whatever reasons, as was the case with Mr. Floyd, and, well, that didn't turn out so well.

And look. Let's be honest. There's good cops and bad cops everywhere. I know this is obviously highly personal and a sensitive issue for you. Guess all I'm saying is to not fall into the same trap that I've lived in for most of my life by generalizing e.g. when it comes to race issues (and one or two other issues on which I never ever saw myself budging on in this lifetime). What happened to you was inexcusable. But I shudder to think what any country would be like without law enforcement (some would be worse off than others of course) (then again: who knows i.e. of late the shit that's going on in countries that were never even a blip on anybody's radar screen for decades are now making the headlines and would be fucked up beyond recognition were it not for law enforcement). Or maybe even worse: having law enforcement that has been rendered totally impotent by politicians and advocacy groups and the like. And for what it's worth: this not some blind faith in law enforcement. But they have a job to do. As do I. And should those two worlds collide: well, then, it is what it is. As long as everybody plays fair? Maybe that's the real issue i.e. the definition of fair!

For my friend who was killed, it does appear it began with him just walking around minding his own business, alone. He was initially mistaken for someone else.

 

[Zephyn]

Fair enough.

Don't get me wrong though (and before I get laid into by the whole bunch): rape is on another level entirely. So don't you go thinking that I'm alright with what happened to you. Because I'm not. Matter of fact: it rears its ugly head here too from time to time. That and woman being harassed by police officers (asking them for personal details at a traffic stop for example) Rape is by no means, and not by any definition, enforcing the law. That's when the cops become criminals and cross a line and at that point it's open season on THEM. So like I said: don't get me wrong.

Obviously my only reason for asking is because one of the points I've been trying to get at on this thread is that there's an inordinate number of suspects that were doing absolutely nothing (apparently) only to draw attention to themselves, lose their shit for whatever reasons, as was the case with Mr. Floyd, and, well, that didn't turn out so well.

And look. Let's be honest. There's good cops and bad cops everywhere. I know this is obviously highly personal and a sensitive issue for you. Guess all I'm saying is to not fall into the same trap that I've lived in for most of my life by generalizing e.g. when it comes to race issues (and one or two other issues on which I never ever saw myself budging on in this lifetime). What happened to you was inexcusable. But I shudder to think what any country would be like without law enforcement (some would be worse off than others of course) (then again: who knows i.e. of late the shit that's going on in countries that were never even a blip on anybody's radar screen for decades are now making the headlines and would be fucked up beyond recognition were it not for law enforcement). Or maybe even worse: having law enforcement that has been rendered totally impotent by politicians and advocacy groups and the like. And for what it's worth: this not some blind faith in law enforcement. But they have a job to do. As do I. And should those two worlds collide: well, then, it is what it is. As long as everybody plays fair? Maybe that's the real issue i.e. the definition of fair!

I'm not so sure we couldn't just defend ourselves in our local communities... probably less prone to corruption that way. Anyway, yes, it is immensely personal to me, and im not sure if seeing videos of police precincts burning to the ground has been therapy or triggering im not sure, the timing of all of it. The "synchronicity" is ridiculous. I mean a week before Floyd was killed i was praying at my buddies death scene altar, literally less than 5 days before, chanting "we tip the scales of chance to balance the scales of justice". Not that this racialized stuff is what I had in mind... I was more hoping for a positive result on the rape kit so I could have millions to donate to social justice causes, but nonetheless..

 

[Nurse Ratched]

It would be absolute stupidity to put him on the stand. The guy defending him is an absolute idiot. I’d say chauvin could have done a better job at it himself. They must be planning an appeal because this can’t be legit defending, surely?

Agreed wholeheartedly MsDiz. I was amazed at the first day of defense testimony. Nelson acted like he didn't even know what questions to ask, took long pauses looking for video exhibits and generally kept a flat affect through the whole day. The prosecution shredded his witnesses. It's rainy and cold here today so I'm gonna watch it LIVE again today. I just watched replay of the Prosecutions case because the weather was unseasonably gorgeous. I am truly amazed and believe that Chauvin might testify if only to do damage control.

 

[dalpat077]

For my friend who was killed, it does appear it began with him just walking around minding his own business, alone. He was initially mistaken for someone else.

Hey,

Really appreciate your responding.

That's something I didn't consider i.e. mistaken identity. Guess that's the benefit of discussion and debate!

Not knowing the exact circumstances (and certainly not asking for more detail either i.e. I'm sure you've gone as far with this as you'd like): maybe I'd be splitting hairs by saying there's a difference between using deadly force BEFORE or AFTER a suspect is already in custody? In other words: is there a marked difference between firing on an unidentified, and as yet not in physical custody, suspect and firing on a suspect after they've been taken into custody and are now trying to make a run for it? It's not a statement. More of a musing. Logic tells me there is, or should be, a marked difference?

This could do my head in you know! I should have stayed out of this thread! Thanks for nothing @Pumpkin2021! I owe you one!

Oh well. May as well bring this ship to shore (David Letterman used to say that often)!

What about innocent bystanders? Not three weeks ago we had a situation here (just one example): crowd of students protesting and going wild, an officer discharges their firearm (shotgun with rubber bullets), and kills an innocent dude that had just walked out of a store (had nothing at all to do with the riots). End result: four officers arrested (I'm guessing this more of a shotgun approach, no pun intended, given that, as far as I know anyway, there's no way of tracing a rubber bullet back to a particular shotgun, of all firearms). Thing is (for me anyway) (and while others may disagree I don't perceive myself as a monster): it's really hard to not ask "yes but what else were the police supposed to do given that their lives were under perceived threat"? When people here get going: they're every bit as out of hand as they are over there I assure you.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

Hey,

Really appreciate your responding.

That's something I didn't consider i.e. mistaken identity. Guess that's the benefit of discussion and debate!

Not knowing the exact circumstances (and certainly not asking for more detail either i.e. I'm sure you've gone as far with this as you'd like): maybe I'd be splitting hairs by saying there's a difference between using deadly force BEFORE or AFTER a suspect is already in custody? In other words: is there a marked difference between firing on an unidentified, and as yet not in physical custody, suspect and firing on a suspect after they've been taken into custody and are now trying to make a run for it? It's not a statement. More of a musing. Logic tells me there is, or should be, a marked difference?

This could do my head in you know! I should have stayed out of this thread! Thanks for nothing @Pumpkin2021! I owe you one!

Oh well. May as well bring this ship to shore (David Letterman used to say that often)!

What about innocent bystanders? Not three weeks ago we had a situation here (just one example): crowd of students protesting and going wild, an officer discharges their firearm (shotgun with rubber bullets), and kills an innocent dude that had just walked out of a store (had nothing at all to do with the riots). End result: four officers arrested (I'm guessing this more of a shotgun approach, no pun intended, given that, as far as I know anyway, there's no way of tracing a rubber bullet back to a particular shotgun, of all firearms). Thing is (for me anyway) (and while others may disagree I don't perceive myself as a monster): it's really hard to not ask "yes but what else were the police supposed to do given that their lives were under perceived threat"? When people here get going: they're every bit as out of hand as they are over there I assure you.

Indeed. Such a fine line between perceived, and actual, threats. And so little time to react. Good post. And you are welcome for being invited into the fray !

 

[dalpat077]

I'm not so sure we couldn't just defend ourselves in our local communities... probably less prone to corruption that way. Anyway, yes, it is immensely personal to me, and im not sure if seeing videos of police precincts burning to the ground has been therapy or triggering im not sure, the timing of all of it. The "synchronicity" is ridiculous. I mean a week before Floyd was killed i was praying at my buddies death scene altar, literally less than 5 days before, chanting "we tip the scales of chance to balance the scales of justice". Not that this racialized stuff is what I had in mind... I was more hoping for a positive result on the rape kit so I could have millions to donate to social justice causes, but nonetheless..

Once again: I thank you.

Well. There's a lot to be said for local or community policing. Depends on how far you go with it I suppose. While most will find it unpalatable: in certain areas here we have self appointed leaders or elders of the community and that band together to form so-called courts. And they truly are judge, jury, and executioner. And if somebody is even suspected of, or pointed out for, a crime: that's the end of the road for them (usually if they're not dead they'd be better off dead anyway). Barbaric? Maybe. Crime rate in those areas? Close to absolute nil. Open to manipulation, abuse, and corruption: for sure. Trade-off?

That synchronicity is eerie is it not. Not sure what else to say. Especially now that I know roughly the circumstances. Still pondering that one.

Well, and if anything comes of that kit, you be sure to let us all know! I'm sure we could all do something given your cause. Although I must add (thanks again to YouTube and its current algorithmic incursion into my viewing preferences): I have seen at least two videos where there's, apparently, now a WLM or "White Lives Matter" movement? Have not watched any of them though. Quite something for me i.e. not too long ago I would have been egging them on. Now I cannot help but wonder if they're just going to add to the fray. Because if this carries on: they're going to come to loggerheads one way or the other eventually. At some point somebody has to back down in the interests of calm. I suppose so anyway. Either that or it's to the victor go the spoils?

Probably sound like an old cunt here: but channel that anger and energy into your cause! And if you can raise money due to the incident: well you'll have my vote. As I said: that's going too far. And somebody should pay in that instance. If you were acting up, simply got arrested, or resisted and got a clip around the ear hole, well you know how I feel about that. But going that far? Nope. Not acceptable. Not even in my world!

 

[Zephyn]

Once again: I thank you.

Well. There's a lot to be said for local or community policing. Depends on how far you go with it I suppose. While most will find it unpalatable: in certain areas here we have self appointed leaders or elders of the community and that band together to form so-called courts. And they truly are judge, jury, and executioner. And if somebody is even suspected of, or pointed out for, a crime: that's the end of the road for them (usually if they're not dead they'd be better off dead anyway). Barbaric? Maybe. Crime rate in those areas? Close to absolute nil. Open to manipulation, abuse, and corruption: for sure. Trade-off?

That synchronicity is eerie is it not. Not sure what else to say. Especially now that I know roughly the circumstances. Still pondering that one.

Yeah, right after I said that I saw on the new something about WLM, and I 100% do not support that sort of shit and that's why even with my idea of just pointing out that police brutality effects us all detracts from the point that there is a disparity with race. Theres a reason I never did it

Well, and if anything comes of that kit, you be sure to let us all know! I'm sure we could all do something given your cause. Although I must add (thanks again to YouTube and its current algorithmic incursion into my viewing preferences): I have seen at least two videos where there's, apparently, now a WLM or "White Lives Matter" movement? Have not watched any of them though. Quite something for me i.e. not too long ago I would have been egging them on. Now I cannot help but wonder if they're just going to add to the fray. Because if this carries on: they're going to come to loggerheads one way or the other eventually. At some point somebody has to back down in the interests of calm. I suppose so anyway. Either that or it's to the victor go the spoils?

Probably sound like an old cunt here: but channel that anger and energy into your cause! And if you can raise money due to the incident: well you'll have my vote. As I said: that's going too far. And somebody should pay in that instance. If you were acting up, simply got arrested, or resisted and got a clip around the ear hole, well you know how I feel about that. But going that far? Nope. Not acceptable. Not even in my world!

Oh it already came back negative, either from the 8 hours they waited to do it, or idk how. I am trying to procure some physical documentation of that as I was only told verbally.

Yeah I had never heard of WLM until after I made that post, then saw it on the news and want to be clear I 100% don't support those assholes, and there's a reason I didn't even do it in the way I said as I felt like even detracting from the point there is a huge racial disparity and always has been when it comes to this is not a good idea, at least for right now.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

Mr. Hall just won his motion to NOT be compelled to testify and have to plead the 5th. As the passenger in the car when Floyd was pulled over, and the subsequent drugs that were found in the car, he would have been open to charges. I don't think the Defense needed him anyway. He was being held ( standing and unrestrained ) on the opposite side of the street and had no line of sight to the altercation anyway.

 

[dalpat077]

Indeed. Such a fine line between perceived, and actual, threats. And so little time to react. Good post. And you are welcome for being invited into the fray !

Yip. I purposely used the word "perceived" before posting. Suppose it depends a lot on training (which, from what I gather, is being questioned in this trial), experience, personal circumstances at the time, and not to mention human nature.

Given that I'm obviously not a police officer: I can only surmise as to how I'd react in a highly charged situation. Especially when faced with a riot. Honestly and with some introspection as a result of this thread: I'd be trigger happy out of pure fear, instinct, and adrenaline (without having the requisite experience and training anyway).

And in just reading the above: that's one of the reasons why Officer Chauvin isn't too popular i.e. he looked pretty cool, calm, and collected throughout the entire debacle. Of course I'd put that down to experience in these matters and which breeds confidence. Especially after looking at some of his other escapades as detailed i.e. he's been in some pretty tough situations before so far as I can tell (and those are cherry picked ones detailed). Depends how you perceive things I suppose. Still stand by everything though i.e. didn't mean to kill the chap, probably waiting for him to calm down and keep it down to a dull roar, and then effect the arrest peacefully (well relatively speaking anyway and as far could have been possible). Who knows. Just thinking that maybe the crowd was of no help either but in a different way i.e. could be that Officer Chauvin was overconfident and playing to the crowd (not realizing what the end result was going to be and, as the saying goes, time flies when you're having fun!). Interesting point. I wonder if this would have played out differently had it been in a dark alley with nobody around?

Nah. I could do this now for yet more hours! I got dishes to wash!

 

[dalpat077]

Mr. Hall just won his motion to NOT be compelled to testify and have to plead the 5th. As the passenger in the car when Floyd was pulled over, and the subsequent drugs that were found in the car, he would have been open to charges. I don't think the Defense needed him anyway. He was being held ( standing and unrestrained ) on the opposite side of the street and had no line of sight to the altercation anyway.

And just when I think I'm out: they pull me back in!

Don't they cut deals i.e. the dude then becomes a State Witness and immune from prosecution? He may not have been able to see the action: but if he testified that Mr. Floyd & Co. had just been to score and/or used then surely that'd have been something to be factored in? As i understand it: only takes one (albeit VERY brave in this case) Juror to be swayed. How that's accomplished is irrelevant (no matter how distasteful or unpalatable) (as we've discussed earlier of course).

Dishes! Oh the glamorous life of ...

 

[Nurse Ratched]

Yip. I purposely used the word "perceived" before posting. Suppose it depends a lot on training (which, from what I gather, is being questioned in this trial), experience, personal circumstances at the time, and not to mention human nature.

Given that I'm obviously not a police officer: I can only surmise as to how I'd react in a highly charged situation. Especially when faced with a riot. Honestly and with some introspection as a result of this thread: I'd be trigger happy out of pure fear, instinct, and adrenaline (without having the requisite experience and training anyway).

And in just reading the above: that's one of the reasons why Officer Chauvin isn't too popular i.e. he looked pretty cool, calm, and collected throughout the entire debacle. Of course I'd put that down to experience in these matters and which breeds confidence. Especially after looking at some of his other escapades as detailed i.e. he's been in some pretty tough situations before so far as I can tell (and those are cherry picked ones detailed). Depends how you perceive things I suppose. Still stand by everything though i.e. didn't mean to kill the chap, probably waiting for him to calm down and keep it down to a dull roar, and then effect the arrest peacefully (well relatively speaking anyway and as far could have been possible). Who knows. Just thinking that maybe the crowd was of no help either but in a different way i.e. could be that Officer Chauvin was overconfident and playing to the crowd (not realizing what the end result was going to be and, as the saying goes, time flies when you're having fun!). Interesting point. I wonder if this would have played out differently had it been in a dark alley with nobody around?

Nah. I could do this now for yet more hours! I got dishes to wash!

Good point. Seeing it out of Chauvins eyes will go a long way for the man. He just has to explain his motives, fears, and state of mind. I want to believe he had some sort of reasoning behind his actions. The onlookers and cell phone footage was a little heated but can hardly be called a riot. Actually , for what they were seeing before them, I think they were all well behaved. Overconfident and playing to the crowd is how I observed his facial expressions but it could be his baseline behavior. My dishes are soaking in the sink.

And just when I think I'm out: they pull me back in!

Don't they cut deals i.e. the dude then becomes a State Witness and immune from prosecution? He may not have been able to see the action: but if he testified that Mr. Floyd & Co. had just been to score and/or used then surely that'd have been something to be factored in? As i understand it: only takes one (albeit VERY brave in this case) Juror to be swayed. How that's accomplished is irrelevant (no matter how distasteful or unpalatable) (as we've discussed earlier of course).

Dishes! Oh the glamorous life of ...

He was never offered immunity. The prosecution issued him a subpeona to compel his testimony on the actions he and Floyd did PRIOR to the incident. He said fine , I will come to court but I will plead the 5th. I'm assuming the Judge squashed his subpeona as Hall didn't have any testimony that was particularly helpful to either side. Hall saying " yeah, we scored, we were getting high and then you fuckers stopped us " isn't needed. The Autopsy already showed the presence of the drugs so it was a moot testimony I guess.

 

[dalpat077]

My dishes are soaking in the sink.

Yeah. That's always my excuse too. That's why it takes an entire day! Now a smoke break! It never ends!

This dude just on the stand now is a South African! Retired pathologist. Rewound and watching again (because there's yet another break). As somebody else noted on YouTube somewhere the other day: at this rate this trial is going to go on for the next thirty years!

 

[Nurse Ratched]

Yeah. That's always my excuse too. That's why it takes an entire day! Now a smoke break! It never ends!

This dude just on the stand now is a South African! Retired pathologist. Rewound and watching again (because there's yet another break). As somebody else noted on YouTube somewhere the other day: at this rate this trial is going to go on for the next thirty years!

I wondered about his accent. He's well spoken and confident. I agree he is long winded and the prosecution is eating up every word. Elaborating so much is unnecessary and gives the opposing team more ammo to impeach. But I like his style.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Mostly guys who were bullies in high school. Too out of shape for the military. No interest in college.

It depends upon where you live. I know multiple police officers both men and women and they all have university and college degrees.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

@dalpat077

He went to community college, then graduated as a cop 11 years later?

His university education was interrupted as he was in the army. I know multiple people who have had this happen.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

It depends upon where you live. I know multiple police officers both men and women and they all have university and college degrees.

I agree. The Michigan State Police is a good example of well mannered, fit , educated and pretty damn fine looking ladies and gents.