Please help....feeling awful!

[A Second Chance]

My friend is really hurting at the moment. She's had a 2 1/2 year addiction to Oxy 30 mg... Taking 1-1 1/2 tablets over the course of the day... So taking a quarter every 3 or so hours 5 to 6 times a day.
Monday at 3 AM was when she "quit"....by the next afternoon she was feeling pretty bad and took a quarter tab at 7 PM. Lasted until Tuesday afternoon and ended up using another quarter at 2 PM. She hadn't planned to taper but after feeling so bad decided it couldn't hurt to taper some. Now she's gone from yesterday at 2 PM to this morning, now 9:30 without taking anything. She almost took a quarter at 2 AM to help with sleep...but she didn't. She says she was having TERRIBLY restless legs, ANXIETY through the roof, some stomach cramps and nausea... And guilt.... feeling like a terrible mother and wife for letting this ever happen in the first place.
She's got some Alprazalom which made her sleepy but she couldn't really sleep, and tried some Red Vein Borneo (but didn't like the disconnected feeling it gave her), she also has Soma but is afraid to use it...think loopy drugged heavy feelings and respiratory depression.
She's not sure how long this will last and what to do to get some sleep.... I wish I knew how to advise her.
So any advice on on supplements, how long this will last, how she can move this through quickly, get some sleep, and not burst into tears every half hour apologizing to her family... would be so appreciated.
She is very scared!

 

[herbavore]

First of all CONGRATULATIONS on your decision to quit. Remember, all of this is temporary and no matter how bad it feels, there is freedom at the other end so take heart.

Here is a very good resource for you:http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/569872-The-Opioid-Withdrawal-Megathread-and-FAQ?

Let's look at the anxiety aspect. Distance yourself from it's clutches by reminding yourself that half of this is just the drug talking--in other words no matter how convincing the anxious thoughts may sound, they are not real. Most anxious thoughts are a mash up of re-living past experiences with projections into the future (which are usually magnified and exaggerated in your imagination). Bring yourself constantly back to the present. Self-talk reassuringly the way you would to someone sitting in front of you that was freaking out. Once you develop a habit of talking yourself down from anxious thinking you never lose the skill and believe me it will come in very handy for everything from PAWS to aging to raising kids--there is no shortage of anxiety producing experiences in life so the sooner you develop strategies for facing the discomfort and fear, the better.

Don't buy into the shame. You probably have any number of friends (most of us do) that are addicted to alcohol--a legal and acceptable drug, but just as addictive. Not everyone gets addicted to alcohol and not everyone gets addicted to opiates and so far we don't really understand why that is; but why should you feel more guilty than someone that started out drinking just like the rest of the culture but found she could not control her use? Try to use this time, not to berate and shame yourself, but to ask yourself what need did the pills fill? How else could those needs be met? Are they even real needs? Many people find themselves out of control with substances or spending or gambling or any other self-defeating habits due to low self-esteem or habits of self-loathing. Others are particularly vulnerable due to childhood trauma or abuse. Be honest with yourself and get down to the root of things. We are all broken in some way and the task of living as an adult is to identify what needs fixing and how to fix it. Sometimes it is nothing more than "fixing" a faulty perception of ourselves as weak or inferior in some way.

Good luck and hang in there. Right now the physical symptoms are intense but its the psychological symptoms that pulls so many people back in. Really use this time to learn new ways to confront self-defeating thoughts.

 

[A Second Chance]

I can't tell you how my heart jumped when I saw your response... and so soon after my post. Your words were truly soothing to me. Thank you. Thank you.
I will take to heart all of your advice... You made so many good points.
At this point I'm wondering if I should try to loperamide/dextro route. I'm not even sure in what doses and when. This site is a wealth of information but I'm really overwhelmed. Please advise!

 

[Cruzer]

(Cold Turkey vs Tapering)
I'm new to the forum but I wanted to share my experience in case it helps. First though I've done a lot of reading on withdrawal but herbavore's comments struck me. Self-reassuring talk is good advice. That's something I'll be trying. Also, I jumped over to the link he provided and as near as I can tell it's a really good compilation of all the different things I've read on the subject. But what strikes be most is "Be honest with yourself and get down to the root". If your taking pain pills for something other than pain (as I am) you may relapse. Depression is my problem. And that isn't going to go away after/if I quit.

Ten years ago I had worked up to an 80mg oxycontin a day habit (for reasons I won't go into). I decided it was time to quit and flushed everything I had and went cold turkey and it was absolutely horrible for two weeks. But I did get through it. I've since learned it might not have been the easist way to go.

So that was 10 years ago. Four years ago I shattered my elbow and was given Percocet (roughly 20 mg oxy per day) which not only alleviated my physical pain but also my depression. Unfortunately in trying to quit that I experienced withdrawal symptoms but not as strong as the 80 mg/day Oxycontin habit. So instead I had my dr switch me the Vicodin (it has hydrocodone instead of oxycodone). I found that the weaker Vicodin didn't get me as "high" as the percocet and thus I didn't crave it as much. Therefor the withdrawals weren't as bad. I was able to quit that way - for about 6 months but I've since relapsed. (I haven't gotten rid of the root problem i.e. depression).

My point of all this is that if you can taper that might be the way to go. A real key for me is the difference between an Oxycodone based med and a Hydrocodone. Oxy I crave whereas the Vocodin I don't. But of course I'm still having trouble kicking the Vicodin but it's a shorter and less intense withdrawal. Tapering or CT probably works different for different people but the good news is that as long as you successfully do one or the other you do get through it.

 

[juansalar]

My sincere heartfelt sympathies...
I know only too well what she's going through and how she feels.
It's bloody awful: every painful minute seemingly lasts an hour and no matter how exhausted you are, you're unable to get a minutes rest.
So, true, it won't last forever and she won't come remotely close to dying or even serious ill health; but, this 'reassurance' is of no value to someone in the throes of withdrawal and the words are meaningless unless the advice is exact and authoritative.

In my experience, the only 'reassurance' that provided any sort of consolance and hope involved the two psychological aids listed below:

1. Precise quantifiable advice on what to expect in terms of painful symptoms and how long you can expect them to last for... the last part is absolutely crucial: if someone can advise you with authority that you can expect diarrhoea to last X number of hours and fever to stop after X number of days, then you can establish mental goals and finishing lines which are incredibly critical in accessing the stamina and resolve to last the distance. Believe me, as soon as you undestand that you have only have to make it until Sunday and then you'll start to feel much better, your mood lifts almost instantaneously and you'll find the withdrawal experience much easier to cope with. It's all down to the power of positive thinking and knowing exactly - not ambiguously or with uncertainty - that the feelings of despair and constant pain won't last forever, in fact you know for sure that their intensity will be reduced by half in two days. Everyone is individual and responds differently to withdrawal, so the person suffering is the best authority on duration and intensity of symptoms. But, it's better if the person can work these factors out in collaboration with a supportive friend. First make a list of all symptoms and complaints, and get the friend to write it down. Then go through the list and describe the details of the discomfort, it's qualities, when it started and when you are pretty certain intensity will reduce by 50% first and then diminish to a tolerable level. If you have no previous experience and no idea of duration, get friend to help you research on internet or ask this forum. If I can I will help. This exercise will alleviate suffering in two ways:
i). The act of methodologically recording symptoms will be an excellent distraction and will take the mind off the pain for the duration of the exercise. The theory that you shouldn't dwell on your situation or
wallow in discomfort is nonsense(!) in my opinion it's impossible to attempt to ignore the pain and instead focus on 'happy things'... you may as well embrace the pain fully if you're unable to distract yourself.
ii). The act of precisely describing discomfort and symptoms, particularly by assigning duration and giving parameters gives power over the pain by making it less abstract and limiting it. It's far easier to brace yourself for a physically challenging marathon if you know well the milestones and can envisage yourself crossing the finishing line.

2. Sounds corny and trite (but every cliche is borne in truth), however, try your best to adopt a positive and optimistic attitude. This sounds also impossible and at odds with the profound anxiety and depression experienced in withdrawal. But even if laughter is forced through gritted teeth and borders on maniacal hysteria it's preferable and more beneficial than wishing you were dead. Embrace the insanity and attempt to laugh at your predicament. Your friend is incredibly fortunate that she has your support; I've always gone through cold turkey alone. With your help your friend can be pressurised into taking a short walk or having a bath. Be aware of the intense social anxiety your friend will be feeling: it's far better to go for a walk when no one is about to see you looking like a gibbering wreck. I can't emphasise enough the positive benefits of mild exercise and getting out in the sunlight. Having endured withdrawal alone this is advice I haven't followed, but I can clearly see the sense and benefit of it.

Other non-physiological over the counter medicinal aids to consider:
- valerian
- hot drinks / soup
- Imodium (Loperamide)
- paracetamol
- antihistamines
(There are others I can't recall)

Medicines a doctor can prescribe:
- gabapentine (for restless legs, which I consider to be the f*cking worse symptom by far)
- clonadine (blood pressure, anxiety)
- Zopiclone or benzodiazepines (anxiety, sleep)

The very best of luck.
I've recently relapsed and after 2 months + of using heroin I plan to go cold turkey in 4 days time. I must admit that I'm terrified at the prospect. I must take my own advice: at the time I'll look to this forum to remind me.

She'll get through this and it won't last forever. If she's three/four days in then she's currently experiencing the worst of it, by Sunday she'll feel much better. But don't let her be disappointed if she doesn't. Withdrawal has a tendency to go in waves and she'll experience set backs where her improvements are reversed. These are temporary set backs and she'll find that each episode is briefer than the previous. Let me know how you get on.

 

[elvis_wears_nikes]

There's some great advice here. Well done for getting so far... you really should be proud! I can empathise too well with your horrible suffering. It is important to keep reminding yourself that you WILL start feeling better soon. But I know personally that opiate withdrawal can seem endless at times especially if you are experiencing insomnia. Symptom management is going to be helpful as mentioned in the previous post. Take one day at a time. Or even one hour or one minute at a time if need be! Have you thought about getting support from drug/addiction services as ongoing support will be valuable to prevent relapse and deal with any ongoing problems or issues. I wish you all the best!

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

At this point I'm wondering if I should try to loperamide/dextro route. I'm not even sure in what doses and when. This site is a wealth of information but I'm really overwhelmed. Please advise!

Your in good hands and very fortunate to have come across Herbavore as well as the newer Bluelighters that seem very intelligent. They have covered all the bases but I just wanted to add that very high doses of loperamide can be dangerous and is a bad idea in your situation even though you might see it recommended in certain places on the net. I would use no more than the suggested amount of 16mg-20mg maximum and for no longer than 5-7 days. As far as the Dextromethorphan hydrobromide it is an NMDA antagonist and can be helpful at resetting your neurotransmitters but it will cause an unpleasant detached feeling if used in doses higher than what is directed on the bottle. It is also best utilized on a short term basis. I wish you the best of luck and I think September is going to be a month of positive change for the better. By now the aforementioned meds might not even be needed. Hang in there S.C.

 

[Mafioso]

I think there are already some great responses here that cover most of the basics around detoxing. I had a similar habit, although a bit more extreme, and just want to encourage you on your decision.

Two things I'd like to point out that helped me push through the withdraws are 1) it will never get any easier to quit opiates, it will only get harder and withdraws will become more severe as you use and 2) it is probably one of the best decisions an opiate addict can make, although quitting opiates is never easy, life becomes easier and you can be happy again without drugs. I still remember the first feeling of "true" happiness I felt when I was detoxing and coming out of the depression and fog that is opiate withdraw. Hang in there, things will get better.

Tapering and benzos can help, but as someone who has gone through serious benzo addiction and withdraw, be careful not to rely on them, only use benzos when you are feeling like you are crawling up walls or can not sleep. Tapering should help with the restless legs, but be sure to stick to a strict regimen if you are going to taper so you don't just reduce the amount consumed and actually quit. Take enough only to reduce withdraw symptoms, if you feel an opiate high then you should probably reduce the amount consumed.

Stay hydrated and try to eat if you can hold food down, even it is only for a couple of hours. If you taper, I would suggest eating after you dose, or once it kicks in. Pedialyte or childrens electrolyte drinks are a god send in my experience. If you allow yourself to get dehydrated it will likely make all the symptoms worse.

Don't beat yourself up, addiction is considered a disease- people don't usually feel guilty for having cancer even though there are things that one can do to increase risk of cancer. Either way, guilt and shame will not help you recover, try to accept where you are at and who you are. You are bettering yourself, using opiates will not make you better.

Try to remember times that you were happy before you were using, it helped me a lot to remind myself that I didn't need a drug to be happy and that happiness occurs naturally. It's actually easier to be happy when you are sober once you make it through withdraws, although it may be hard to see that now.

Reach out to people who can understand, even if it is just on these forums, talking to someone and knowing that others have gone through the same thing and that you aren't dying really helps. Being isolated and alone can make the depression worse.

It takes time, but it starts to get easier after the first week or two so hang in there. It may be one of the hardest things you do but probably one of the most beneficial things as well. My counselor always says "you don't walk 30 miles into the woods without having to walk 30 miles out".


tl;dr:
Stay hydrated, try to eat
Reach out to people who can relate
Feel good about yourself for taking the first step rather than guilty for your past
Don't give up, hang in there
Things will get better, you can be happy without drugs.