Mental Health Please describe how autism affects you personally - autistic people only, not family

[Eligiu]

Thanks. I can write all good and stuff, and be, like, sooo grammatical -- I spent a decade copyediting mostly SF/fantasy in NYC -- but I can also be all over the place depending how I'm feeling. "Idiomatic expression" FTW.

Tbh grammar is all just ever changing rules is it not? It's barely comprehensible at the best of times and utterly impenetrable at the worst of times.

I weep for those fellow forum members who speak English as a second language.

 

[MountainTrails]

Tbh grammar is all just ever changing rules is it not? It's barely comprehensible at the best of times and utterly impenetrable at the worst of times.

I weep for those fellow forum members who speak English as a second language.

Yeah, most languages are understood to be alive. Once upon a time I took Development of Modern English and Chaucer at the same time, and the two classes worked really well together for my benefit. Up to that point, I hadn't really understood how much languages change and add words as they encounter other cultures, or the great extent to which meanings can change over time.

But I always appreciated and preferred the practical approach over a formal one with grammar. "I know what I mean and you know what I mean, so what's the problem?" was something I said to a teacher in middle school. It wasn't appreciated, but it was heartfelt. Fowler's Dictionary of Modern English Usage was always a pain in my ass. I love regional dialect.

Music is a language, and it's the same way: Change and additions make it interesting and fresh.

 

[December Flower]

Tbh grammar is all just ever changing rules is it not? It's barely comprehensible at the best of times and utterly impenetrable at the worst of times.

I weep for those fellow forum members who speak English as a second language.

I think it's the easiest language I have ever come across.
It's essentially a language that is so easy that anyone can learn it.
Which is quite practical. It serves as a communication device for all people.

Wanna learn German and see a language that is actually difficult?
We have people with doctorates still make Grammar errors.

Weep, I only do for those that are English natives, because your chances to learn to speak another language well are very slim if you're an English native.
Lazy tongue, lazy grammar, no articles, no casus, think prepositions is the only sort of difficult part, and only because they're counter-intuitive to German prepositions

 

[Eligiu]

I think it's the easiest language I have ever come across.
It's essentially a language that is so easy that anyone can learn it.
Which is quite practical. It serves as a communication device for all people.

Wanna learn German and see a language that is actually difficult?
We have people with doctorates still make Grammar errors.

Weep, I only do for those that are English natives, because your chances to learn to speak another language well are very slim if you're an English native.
Lazy tongue, lazy grammar, no articles, no casus, think prepositions is the only sort of difficult part, and only because they're counter-intuitive to German prepositions

Oh hey I actually have one degree in german language studies and lived there for some time. I lived in erding and Stuttgart, on exchange.

My German currently would be worse than trash. I can still understand id estimate 50% of what is said to me but my ability to converse back is limited. When I get dumped back amongst native German speakers however I bounce straight back into being mostly fluent.

I fucking hate the fact that you have gendered 'the'. Stop gendering everything I can't keep track of it. I cannot remember it all.

Funny story, I accidentally told my exchange dad I fucked his pet cat so mu exchange sister calls me catfucker affectionately now.

The event? I had been asked if I'd seen the cat. I said he slept with me last night (in German, confidently because I stupidly figured I could not mess this up) that yes he had slept with me last night.

Cue intense all around the breakfast table laughter and my complete confusion.

My sister explains I just said I fucked a cat

I Deny it

I was wrong.

See there are 2 words for 'with' in the German language and one when used with 'to sleep' literally means to have sex with or fuck. This was the only version I knew.

The other version meant 'to sleep'in the vicinity of' and THIS was the version I desperately wanted to use.

And believe me I never picked up a language rule faster than that moment and it has never been allowed to be forgotten

 

[December Flower]

Oh hey I actually have one degree in german language studies and lived there for some time. I lived in erding and Stuttgart, on exchange.

My German currently would be worse than trash. I can still understand id estimate 50% of what is said to me but my ability to converse back is limited. When I get dumped back amongst native German speakers however I bounce straight back into being mostly fluent.

I fucking hate the fact that you have gendered 'the'. Stop gendering everything I can't keep track of it. I cannot remember it all.

Funny story, I accidentally told my exchange dad I fucked his pet cat so mu exchange sister calls me catfucker affectionately now.

The event? I had been asked if I'd seen the cat. I said he slept with me last night (in German, confidently because I stupidly figured I could not mess this up) that yes he had slept with me last night.

Cue intense all around the breakfast table laughter and my complete confusion.

My sister explains I just said I fucked a cat

I Deny it

I was wrong.

See there are 2 words for 'with' in the German language and one when used with 'to sleep' literally means to have sex with or fuck. This was the only version I knew.

The other version meant 'to sleep'in the vicinity of' and THIS was the version I desperately wanted to use.

And believe me I never picked up a language rule faster than that moment and it has never been allowed to be forgotten

No you probably just said "ich habe mit der Katze geschlafen", which means "i fucked the cat".

If you had said "die Katze hat bei mir im Bett geschlafen" it would have been correct. it would technically both mean the same but idiomatic use of German dictates that "mit...geschlafen" means fucked with

Not rly that we have 2 forms of with, mit und bei, but Beischlaf means sex so have fun w that.

Sorry i dont believe anyone they speak German well. Maybe someone who has lived here for 20 years can grasp the nuance in our language.

When i think of fluent use of a foreign language I think of my English for example. Its fluent and accent free, i only make tiny mistakes once in a while

 

[Eligiu]

No you probably just said "ich habe mit der Katze geschlafen", which means "i fucked the cat".

If you had said "die Katze hat bei mir im Bett geschlafen" it would have been correct. it would technically both mean the same but idiomatic use of German dictates that "mit...geschlafen" means fucked with

Not rly that we have 2 forms of with, mit und bei, but Beischlaf means sex so have fun w that.

Sorry i dont believe anyone they speak German well. Maybe someone who has lived here for 20 years can grasp the nuance in our language.

When i think of fluent use of a foreign language I think of my English for example. Its fluent and accent free, i only make tiny mistakes once in a while

I don't profess to speak German well, I claim to be fluent to the level I can readily understand any relevant conversation and talk about higher level matters and discuss things freely with my peers. Better than just conversational, but far short of grammatically perfect.

At university I scored excellent for oral conversation, poorly for written Grammer, and well for the studied text. I often missed grammar rules.

But I watched loads of German tv and listened to loads of music so I picked up phrases and just locked things away.

I don't think I'll ever have a shot of passing as native, but I can definitely comfortably move there and live there with few issues.

And so I definitely said 'i slept with the cat' and whatever combination of your cursed Grammer I used I'm now perpetually known as catfucker when I didn't know any better.

 

[December Flower]

I don't profess to speak German well, I claim to be fluent to the level I can readily understand any relevant conversation and talk about higher level matters and discuss things freely with my peers. Better than just conversational, but far short of grammatically perfect.

At university I scored excellent for oral conversation, poorly for written Grammer, and well for the studied text. I often missed grammar rules.

But I watched loads of German tv and listened to loads of music so I picked up phrases and just locked things away.

I don't think I'll ever have a shot of passing as native, but I can definitely comfortably move there and live there with few issues.

And so I definitely said 'i slept with the cat' and whatever combination of your cursed Grammer I used I'm now perpetually known as catfucker when I didn't know any better.

Ah, seems you and the world have entirely different perceptions of what "fluent" means.
It's "fluent", because it flows like water, get me? You don't have to think, you just speak the language

Understanding the language is barely A1-2, it's not even B level of language :/
B level you already have to be able to have complex conversations.
My English was tested to be C2, on multiple occasions. That's fluent.
No offense.

Fluent means AT LEAST C1.
No problems with understanding, talking, Grammar, articles, casus, that all should be behind you on C1

Ah, just be careful you don't learn Maurerdeutsch.
Learning phrases leads to that. You gotta go deep in the Grammar if you truly want to learn.
Anyone can speak Maurerdeutsch, and it's frowned upon in Germany, when people learn phrases instead of the language
not seen as true language skill, just a little cognitive exercise.
We usually learn 2-4 foreign languages at school, and I mean really learn, Grammar and all,
I don't think you would impress anyone with Maurerdeutsch, especially not here in the South.

Well, getting a well-paid job here would be difficult. Actually getting any job.
My ex fiancee was a doctor in England, wouldn't even be employed as a caretaker here.

Yeah happens. German is complex

 

[Eligiu]

Ah, seems you and the world have entirely different perceptions of what "fluent" means.
It's "fluent", because it flows like water, get me? You don't have to think, you just speak the language

Understanding the language is barely A1-2, it's not even B level of language :/
B level you already have to be able to have complex conversations.
My English was tested to be C2, on multiple occasions. That's fluent.
No offense.

Fluent means AT LEAST C1.
No problems with understanding, talking, Grammar, articles, casus, that all should be behind you on C1

Ah, just be careful you don't learn Maurerdeutsch.
Learning phrases leads to that. You gotta go deep in the Grammar if you truly want to learn.
Anyone can speak Maurerdeutsch, and it's frowned upon in Germany, when people learn phrases instead of the language
not seen as true language skill, just a little cognitive exercise

Well, getting a well-paid job here would be difficult. Actually getting any job.
My ex fiancee was a doctor in England, wouldn't even be employed as a caretaker here.

Yeah happens. German is complex

Yes I am aware how languages are assessed I did month long study tours overseas and my spoken German was assessed at C2 while written at B2. When I said fluent I meant fluent. I was immersed in areas where little to no English was spoken so U had zero option but to learn. My exchange family was very strict and enforced rules about when English was permitted (allow in order to help the youngest learn for school 2 hours a night every night). I dreamt in German, I'd read newspapers in German an absorb every word before I realised I didn't notice it wasn't English.

This was of course after more than 8 months of living there. I would not even dare to state the same ability now. I'd have to be back there several months to regain that.

But like I have a group of 8 Australian universities German studies degree with a distinction average GPA and C2/B2 proficiency. I was very good at German.

Tbh German isn't close to the hardest language I've tried to learn. That honour goes to Hebrew and Arabic. German is nothing compared to that. The Grammer rules are so logical that you only need to ever learn exceptions. The vocabulary is tiny.

It's not super hard. Harder than English sure. But i would honestly rank German in like the midly challenging category compared to say mandarin or Icelandic lol

 

[December Flower]

Yes I am aware how languages are assessed I did month long study tours overseas and my spoken German was assessed at C2 while written at B2. When I said fluent I meant fluent. I was immersed in areas where little to no English was spoken so U had zero option but to learn. My exchange family was very strict and enforced rules about when English was permitted (allow in order to help the youngest learn for school 2 hours a night every night). I dreamt in German, I'd read newspapers in German an absorb every word before I realised I didn't notice it wasn't English.

This was of course after more than 8 months of living there. I would not even dare to state the same ability now. I'd have to be back there several months to regain that.

But like I have a group of 8 Australian universities German studies degree with a distinction average GPA and C2/B2 proficiency. I was very good at German.

Tbh German isn't close to the hardest language I've tried to learn. That honour goes to Hebrew and Arabic. German is nothing compared to that. The Grammer rules are so logical that you only need to ever learn exceptions. The vocabulary is tiny.

It's not super hard. Harder than English sure. But i would honestly rank German in like the midly challenging category compared to say mandarin or Icelandic lol

Lol what. Our vocabulary is infinite. We make new words every month.
Even I can't keep track of it, and I'm a native. Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz,
translate that without a translator and we can talk or a shorter word, try "sitt". 50%+ of Germans have no fucking idea what it means
I can dig so deep into vocabulary, we have so many purely regional words, etc. Saying our vocabulary is small makes me believe you less

Sorry, not going to believe that. The B2, I believe that, more or less.
Spoken is so hard for non-natives, I have never seen anyone with a C2 level of German, who wasn't native.
Dunno where you're from, but if your native tongue isn't a Scandinavian language or French, you're going to have a hard time speaking

My aunt married an American and he's been living here for about 30 years, give or take,
and his spoken German is still complete shit. His freaking kids speak German all day!

Schreib ma bissl auf Deutsch, dann kann ich's ja mal einschätzen,
aber i glaub da neda, sorry. Kosd du Dialekt versteh oder bloß Hochdeitsch?

And about how difficult it is: sure, that's why German natives make Grammar errors ALL THE TIME
and didn't you say you couldn't gender nouns properly? You're not going to get C2 if you can't gender properly

 

[Eligiu]

Lol what. Our vocabulary is infinite. We make new words every month.
Even I can't keep track of it, and I'm a native. Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz,
translate that without a translator and we can talk

Sorry, not going to believe that. The B2, I believe that, more or less.
Spoken is so hard for non-natives, I have never seen anyone with a C2 level of German, who wasn't native.
Dunno where you're from, but if your native tongue isn't a Scandinavian language or French, you're going to have a hard time speaking

My aunt married an American and he's been living here for about 30 years, give or take,
and his spoken German is still complete shit.

Schreib ma bissl auf Deutsch, dann kann ich's ja mal einschätzen,
aber i glaub da neda, sorry. Kosd du Dialekt versteh oder bloß Hochdeitsch?

And about how difficult it is: sure, that's why German natives make Grammar errors ALL THE TIME

C2 spoken. B2 written. Not the same thing.

I was in classes with several people assessed at C2. Dunno what to tell you? Your language isn't as difficult as you think it is compared to other ones people have learnt? I studied Hebrew and Arabic so German was a step down. My mate was conversational in Mandarin so again, a step backwards. Yet another dude self taught south Korean. He too was at C2 level.

Hate to break it to you but German actually isn't all that complex. And the vocabulary is limited. You can create astonishing sentences but the actual amount of literal words in the vocab is a few hundred thousand (if memory serves) compared to above 1 mill Englis. Maybe an order of magnitude greater.

Dunno what to say man, idk why you keep referring to America either I'm not from the us and I've been speaking German since I was 12. I was assessed for proficiency at 22. That's a decade of language use. Seems a lot

 

[December Flower]

C2 spoken. B2 written. Not the same thing.

I was in classes with several people assessed at C2. Dunno what to tell you? Your language isn't as difficult as you think it is compared to other ones people have learnt? I studied Hebrew and Arabic so German was a step down. My mate was conversational in Mandarin so again, a step backwards. Yet another dude self taught south Korean. He too was at C2 level.

Hate to break it to you but German actually isn't all that complex. And the vocabulary is limited. You can create astonishing sentences but the actual amount of literal words in the vocab is a few hundred thousand (if memory serves) compared to above 1 mill Englis. Maybe an order of magnitude greater.

Dunno what to say man, idk why you keep referring to America either I'm not from the us and I've been speaking German since I was 12. I was assessed for proficiency at 22. That's a decade of language use. Seems a lot

rofl WHAT?! you're so fucking wrong.
ok i'm done writing

English: 121.000 words with around 50.000 of them obsolete.......
German: 500.000+ words and that's just the ones in the dictionary. Do you know how much regional vocabulary we have?
I can't even speak to people in Berlin, because they don't really understand what I want. I can't order food there because it's all named differently
stop telling me my language is soooo easy, when even us Germans have problems communicating properly amongst each other.

I can write sentences in German that you're just not going to understand. You can throw them through a translator, no fucking chance you will ever understand it. Wanna see? "Sie schaugt aba oba oba a obat aba er is oba an obi ob a obi a oa hod"

People from Berlin visiting here have no fucking idea what's going on, because our language is entirely different,
and we have to speak High German to communicate, and still have big issues understanding each other,
as every regional High German is also pretty different.

please no more answers, have a nice day i'm bored.
also i don't believe you, and you still haven't written anything in German.

 

[Eligiu]

rofl WHAT?! you're so fucking wrong.
ok i'm done writing

English: 121.000 words with around 50.000 of them obsolete.......
German: 500.000+ words and that's just the ones in the dictionary. Do you know how much regional vocabulary we have?
I can't even speak to people in Berlin, because they don't really understand what I want. I can't order food there because it's all named differently
stop telling me my language is soooo easy, when even us Germans have problems communicating properly amongst each other.

please no more answers, have a nice day i'm bored.

Well, not according to my German lecturer who explained the difference in numbers to me.

You realise regional variations don't count as other versions of the word right?

Like I apologise if being told your language Actually is not the biggest baddest most difficult language to speak to a perfectly fluent level but it's actually not? And so many people can attest to that. In herbrew and Arabic they don't even include the vowels in the words and you're telling me that is harder to learn as a foreign speaker than a language which is always literally straightforward and follows all the rules.

Honestly that sort of just seems wildly unrealistic at this stage. Scandinavian Languages have up to 25 cases versus Germans 12. And generally are far more complex. Some Asian languages are close to impossible to speak even conversationally and you think a Germanic Language, which English is a descendant of, is the hardest one?

You're also getting off topic. Stay on topic. This isn't a thread about German being the most amazing perfect impossible language which is so special and hard. It's about day to day life with autism.

 

[December Flower]

Well, not according to my German lecturer who explained the difference in numbers to me.

You realise regional variations don't count as other versions of the word right?

Like I apologise if being told your language Actually is not the biggest baddest most difficult language to speak to a perfectly fluent level but it's actually not? And so many people can attest to that. In herbrew and Arabic they don't even include the vowels in the words and you're telling me that is harder to learn as a foreign speaker than a language which is always literally straightforward and follows all the rules.

Honestly that sort of just seems wildly unrealistic at this stage. Scandinavian Languages have up to 25 cases versus Germans 12. And generally are far more complex. Some Asian languages are close to impossible to speak even conversationally and you think a Germanic Language, which English is a descendant of, is the hardest one?

You're also getting off topic. Stay on topic. This isn't a thread about German being the most amazing perfect impossible language which is so special and hard. It's about day to day life with autism.

how about you use google, Sherlock?

Because I just did. I'm done.

Yeah I'm getting off topic
500.000 is not counting regional vocabulary. W regional vocabulary it's three times that number, or more.
In Bav almost every single word is different.

Our "dialect" is a different language altogether.

You don't seem to understand cases. We have 4 cases.
Norwegian has 2 cases
Swedish has 3
Finnish has 15, but it's not a Germanic language

Is all your information guesswork?

Also just fyi, can you look for where i said German was the most complex?
I'm just saying it's much more complex than you give it credit, and also that I do not believe you
Russian is much more complex, for example.

You still haven't said a single thing in German or tried to translate my sentence, so.. hm

 

[Eligiu]

how about you use google, Sherlock?

Because I just did. I'm done.

Yeah I'm getting off topic
500.000 is not counting regional vocabulary. W regional vocabulary it's three times that number, or more.
In Bav almost every single word is different.

Our "dialect" is a different language altogether.

You don't seem to understand cases. We have 4 cases.
Norwegian has 2 cases
Swedish has 3
Finnish has 15, but it's not a Germanic language

Is all your information guesswork?

Also just fyi, can you look for where i said German was the most complex?
I'm just saying it's much more complex than you give it credit, and also that I do not believe you
Russian is much more complex, for example.

You still haven't said a single thing in German or tried to translate my sentence, so.. hm

Did I not state numerous times that my ability to understand German right now would be limited to 50% spoken, while my written German would be atrocious? I haven't been there since 2018 and I don't live near German speaking people.

You came in acting like it was the hardest language in the world. I get that it's your Language and you're proud of it. But hebrew and Arabic take it to church and south Korean hammers it. Not to mention random south east Asian countries like dude it's got the same damn alphabet lol

Stay on thread or stop replying. I don't mind which.

 

[December Flower]

Did I not state numerous times that my ability to understand German right now would be limited to 50% spoken, while my written German would be atrocious? I haven't been there since 2018 and I don't live near German speaking people.

You came in acting like it was the hardest language in the world. I get that it's your Language and you're proud of it. But hebrew and Arabic take it to church and south Korean hammers it. Not to mention random south east Asian countries like dude it's got the same damn alphabet lol

Stay on thread or stop replying. I don't mind which.

C2 spoken would be indistinguishable from a native. Are you saying nobody could hear you were not a native?
You're either lying or you had the nicest examinant ever

Show me where I said that. You came in acting like it was the easiest language to learn, and I disagreed.

 

[MountainTrails]

This isn't a thread about German being the most amazing perfect impossible language which is so special and hard. It's about day to day life with autism.

FWIW, I've been reading along thinking that this exchange between the two of you is an example of day-to-day life with autism. But I agree that the discussion's not about autism.

 

[December Flower]

FWIW, I've been reading along thinking that this exchange between the two of you is an example of day-to-day life with autism. But I agree that the discussion's not about autism.

I agree with that. I hate my sense of completion.
I need to complete a discussion before I can put it aside. it is rather annoying

 

[December Flower]

I'm really just discussing because a lot of his information was not properly researched

 

[MountainTrails]

I agree with that. I hate my sense of completion.
I need to complete a discussion before I can put it aside. it is rather annoying

I know, right? I have unfinished conversations I carry around in my head for years until I have an opportunity to get them out.

 

[Eligiu]

FWIW, I've been reading along thinking that this exchange between the two of you is an example of day-to-day life with autism. But I agree that the discussion's not about autism.

It could definitely be interpreted as such.

But c2 is the highest level a non native speaker can read. English language speakers are never assessed at a C2 level it doesn't exist for us.

And tbh, please don't take this the wrong way @December Flower but your grammar in English is fairly disjointed and readily identifiable as ESL like it's far from bad and it's clearly superior to my German without any doubt as most Germans English always invariably is, but you weren't 'indistinguishable from a native' when you commented you were readily identifiable as ESL. Yet your English I would state is indeed C2. I'd also agree with that.