Playing with fire during recovery

[Krowsnose]

Let me give a bit of my background. For about 1-2 years I've been trying to get straight from opiates. I've been through 2 IOP programs since March and haven't been strung out for a few months. After about a month of clean time I started messing around again. Now I'm very used to relapse but this time I feel like I have some control over it. About every weekend I'll mess around with coke or pills. I'll have a good night and the next morning I feel back to normal. I don't stay preoccupied with the thought of getting high throughout the week and feel like I can stay productive with regular life activities. I have that level of passion about sober life and things have been falling into place. I have a girl I'm seeing and good friends and family to keep me going. Now I know just about every AA/NA person or drug counselor will say it's absolutely crazy to think you can control drug use if you're considered an addict. I'd like to hear anyone's opinion on this. Is it possible to use recreationally if you've used habitually in the past? Is it just a matter of time before I get back into a full blown habit?

 

[Legerity]

I'm going through a similar situation after having been clean for an extended period of time. I'm very interested in the idea of people changing their relationship to drugs and being able to moderate, and what factors are involved in it being possible. I think it's important to be honest with yourself and be extremely self-aware of every choice you make, if you are determined to do so.

There are lots of questions you can ask yourself. Is it worth the risk to find out if you can do it?
How important is it for you to be able to continue to use drugs? Do you think you can be honest enough to stop if it becomes necessary? How solid are the "buffers" you have (i.e. friends, family, girlfriend, etc.) that you think will keep you safe?

 

[Missykins]

I could never return to the use of my DOC again, and I don't jack around with others, either. I know for a fact that with one shot I would be back at the beginning all over again. I couldn't control it the first time so what makes me think that I could a second time? Plus I can't go back to that life again, and my family would be done with me and they were the people who got me through it the first time. Just not for me.

 

[Bojangles69]

The problem with this thinking (NA thinking) is it doesn't cover any gray areas.

Like you either ARE an addict or you are NOT an addict, and thats just not a good representation of reality. I'm going to give a brief description of my 2 brothers and myself, then you can guess which one of us is a traditional "addict". All of them went through an experimental phase too at younger years, so its not that they don't have experience with drugs cause they do.

Brother 1 -
Rarely uses anything. Only for holidays/b-days/big football games. But when he DOES use or drink, there is NO LIMITS to how much he will use. Its ALWAYS drinking till vomits everywhere then blacks out, and with drugs too he will use as much as he possibly can when he DOES seldomly get high. Still, he never goes more than one day, when tommorow comes around its back to normal life for however many months still he uses/drinks again.
Hes never had a "habit", but he also never does anything casually/socially, its ALWAYS to get as fucked up as he possibly can.

Brother 2 -
This brother uses much more often, but has still never once got out of control. He takes benzos that I give him (I don't use benzos myself) and has been taking them ever since I can remember for sleep/anxiety. The difference with him is when he doesn't need them, he DOESN'T TAKE THEM. I've never understood where he gets his self control from. One refill of valium can last him 3 months, and when I give him opiates he will take them but usually extremely small amounts. Compared to brother 1 he uses way more often, but he also uses much smaller amounts, and has also never developed an addiction to anything he takes. I personally can NOT understand how someone gets anxious from work one day, takes a valium, then the next day has to work again but doesn't feel the need to take one again. I think hes just better at comprehending what forms of anxiety are normal everyday experiences, and what forms aren't. For me, all anxiety makes me feel bad, so I can't understand how he feels no compulsion to take more benzos after already establishing that association in his mind that they will make him feel better. Hes the same way with cigarettes too. Will smoke occasionally on the weekends, but always goes back to not smoking on mondays.

Then there is me -
I have more self control than brother 1 when it comes to amounts, but less self control overall than brother 2. However brother 1 has more self control than brother 2 when it comes to frequency of use, and brother 2 has more self control than brother 1 when it comes to amounts of use.
I can not get addicted to something like tramadol, or codiene, and I've managed never to get addicted to benzos yet but I also think for some odd reason my body doesn't wd from benzos like other people do. I've taken them before for over 6 months and never got wds when stopping my klonopin, so you can see how all these tiny differences start to change things. Maybe I would have stopped opiates eventually like the benzos if I didn't get wds so damn early in the process.
The fact is, I've never gotten addicted to a drug before that I haven't been physically addicted to. Ok except pot actually, I smoke pot everynight and I'm not physically hooked. But every other drug I can think of I've "just stopped" at one point cause I didn't NEED to use it. I smoke freebase coke for 3 months than stopped, very minor mental wds and I just didn't wanna use that shit anymore.
I've stopped ecstacy after only about a dozen uses, and never went back ever since. NOT SURE WHY again I just sort of stopped.
I've used tram tons of times and always stop within 2-3 weeks, for reasons I've already mentioned before.
I've also used ketamine and coke and stopped both of them too w/out becoming addicted.

Its like the only drugs I consistently get hooked on are the really powerful opiates. And its hard to determine how much of that addiction is psychological when its your body that is really driving the use. I know I'm using everyday so I don't get sick but if there was no risk of wds I prob would have stopped a long time ago.

I mean theres just SO MANY FACTORS to consider besides whether or not someone is or isn't an addict.
And I have other thoughts about this stuff that are rather ironic. Like I consider EVERYONE who is alive, to be a "potential addict". If the circumstances are right, anyone can get addicted, and I truely believe that. Put brother 1 or 2 on a high dose script of oxy for 1 year than watch how quick they start acting like a typical drug addict. Because I innately believe that anyone can become an addict, I also believe that anyone can unbecome an addict. But I still believe its highly relative to EXACTLY how that drug effects you.

Can I ever use stronger opiates like brother 1 or 2? I couldn't imagine it. In all honesty its not "fun" in anyway to stop using drugs. If I can only use for 2-3 nights, than its worthless imo. CONTROLLING an addiction is the part thats NOT FUN. I don't wanna question myself after I use valium for a few nights as to whether I'm doing it "too much". I don't wanna worry about what day exactly my body will start becoming addicted. And I don't wanna take off random days to see if I experience wds just so I know its time to curtail my use.

Whats fun for me is when I KNOW inside my head that I can use as much as I want whenever I want. The SECOND I start focusing on "hmm I should only have x dose today" its not fun anymore. It ruins the the whole point of using for me, so I don't go through that process in my head, and I get addicted. This is prob one of the main reasons I'm considered a "drug addict", because when I have to focus on controlling how much I'm able to feel good, I never voluntarily will subject myself to feeling bad, even if I need to feel that way to avoid addiction.

Its really a confusing fucking process. But I can say in all honesty that I think people are drug addicts in PORTIONS. Maybe I'm 67% a drug addict, while someone prostituting themself for drugs is 89% a drug addict, and someone who uses but never gets "hooked" its only 23% a drug addict (like brother 2). Thinking about addiction in this manner seems much more accurate to me than the way NA does it, which only really applies to either end of the spectrum.

 

[love2party]

I'm currently in the same situation. I notice if I tell myself I can't touch opiate ever again, I'm more likely to relapse back to full blown addiction. I just can't fathom not doing opiates ever again, so I approach opiates in a slightly more casual manner. I also set up some rules to keep my use down.

 

[b4rd]

I have met FULL BLOWN meth and crack addicts who have turned their lives around smoke pot and drink beer without their lives becoming totally consumed.

I believe that people who have been through addiction have a MUCH HIGHER change of becoming addicted again. I think this is why AA/NA say that once you are an addict, you are an addict forever.

I don't think addiction it is as black and white as AA/NA sees it. You have to remember, to become "successful" in AA/NA, you have to go with their rules 100%. This means no using ANYTHING. So, if someone is not "successful" in AA (i.e. 100% sobriety, spiritual enlightenment, etc.), this does not mean that they are not successful in life.

I think that every one is different. According to AA/NA, the saying "if there's a will, there's a way" is a completely fictitious one.

Everyone is different. Maybe the people in AA/NA were addicts of the type that could not control their usage. You also have to remember, that people who are successful in AA are people who have COMPLETELY FUCKED UP THEIR LIVES. They have hit "uttermost bottom and despair" and to use would mean suicide.

This is why it's mostly old farts in AA/NA. Don't get me wrong, there are a few young guns in AA, but rarely do they stay; I wish I could reach nirvana through AA/NA. Unfortunately I find my nirvana through this bag of mushrooms. =P REMEMBER IF THERE IS A WILL, THERE IS A WAY. Dont believe in the whole "drugs were taking over me excuse". Seems to be such a cop-out to me. Take responsibility for your own actions, and if you can use with moderation, more power to you brother!

Sorry, didn't mean to rant, hope some of this helps.

Moderation is key, but is it likely?