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phenethylamine and MAO-B

Mugz

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 6, 2004
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I was reading up on phenethylamine and how it is found in chocolate and it may have pyschoactive effects when eaten but because its quickly metabolized by MAO-B.
I was just wondering whether there is any compound out there that would stop the MAO-B working so that you could get psychoactive effects from eating chocolate and other foods that contain phenethylamine.
 
there are drugs that inhibit MAO-B. Nicotine does apparently (although I'm not sure if that drug taking it by smoking it inhibits the MAO-B in your stomach maybe its just neuronally or in the bloodstream?).

edit - I'm sorry its cigarette smoke but not nicotine that inhibits MAO-B (admin of pure nicotine apparently doesn't do it).
 
mugabe said:
I was reading up on phenethylamine and how it is found in chocolate and it may have pyschoactive effects when eaten but because its quickly metabolized by MAO-B.
I was just wondering whether there is any compound out there that would stop the MAO-B working so that you could get psychoactive effects from eating chocolate and other foods that contain phenethylamine.

PEA in high doses 1-2 grams is cns active. Otherwise taking 1-10 mg of deprenyl the most proven MAO-B inhibitor would be recommended.
 
I was actually about to post a thread similar to this, if taking an MAO-B inhibitor would cause you to get an amphetamine-like effect from chocolate

it seems plausible however possibly dangerous
 
>>
PEA in high doses 1-2 grams is cns active. Otherwise taking 1-10 mg of deprenyl the most proven MAO-B inhibitor would be recommended.>>

Bluelighters have had physically and mentally dangerous reactions from combining deprenyl (at a dosage below MAO-A crossover) with phenethylamine. Tread cautiously if at all.

ebola
 
PeyoteVisions said:
Why doesn't pure nicotine inhibit MAO-B? Is it the actual smoke or something produced as a byproduct?
i remember reading somewhere that tobacco contains some harmala alkaloids - maybe that contributes to the MAOI effects

ime eating 72% dark chocolate while on deprenyl (5mg/day) had really variable results...the first time it was very stimulating (like almost to the point of feeling spun), but after that it just gave me a headache and chest pains. i'm interested in what pure phenethylamine would be like though
 
ebola? said:
>>
PEA in high doses 1-2 grams is cns active. Otherwise taking 1-10 mg of deprenyl the most proven MAO-B inhibitor would be recommended.>>

Bluelighters have had physically and mentally dangerous reactions from combining deprenyl (at a dosage below MAO-A crossover) with phenethylamine. Tread cautiously if at all.

ebola

Taking deprenyl and PEA in doses higher than studied is not recommended as there is no studies to confirm safety.

The combination is highly effective for certain types of depression.
 
I wouldn't eat PEA and any decent MAOI, isn't safe imho.

When consuming drinks with large amounts (30-50 g) of cocoa powder the CNS effect was closer to amphetamines than that of caffeine, and a nice antidepressant too. This is a fair amount of xanthines too. However, it produced tolarance rather quickly.
 
Armadillo said:
I wouldn't eat PEA and any decent MAOI, isn't safe imho.

When consuming drinks with large amounts (30-50 g) of cocoa powder the CNS effect was closer to amphetamines than that of caffeine, and a nice antidepressant too. This is a fair amount of xanthines too. However, it produced tolarance rather quickly.

MAO-A inhibitors and PEA may be dangerous. However MAO-B inhibitors and PEA can be used safely.
 
NeuronalPerception said:
MAO-A inhibitors and PEA may be dangerous. However MAO-B inhibitors and PEA can be used safely.

There's an old set of studies showing PEA to be safely and efficaciously coadministered with the irreversible, non-selective MAOI Nardil (phenelzine) for depression.

That said, I would not suggest anyone try anything with PEA unless they are sure both of the purity and the dosage of their phenethylamine. Chocolate/cocoa is not a good source; theophylline, theobromine and other alkaloids will be much more prominent than PEA.

There's no combination that any bluelighter is likely to use that could be considered "safe."
 
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I have read quite a few reports of combining selegiline at doses where it is selective (sub 20mg) with PEA, this gives an amphetamine-esque high for around an hour or so.

I am sure I read somewhere that Nicotine is not actually an MAOI, it acts to reduce MAO production or levels through some mechanism.
 
sdfromage said:
There's an old set of studies showing PEA to be safely and efficaciously coadministered with the irreversible, non-selective MAOI Nardil (phenelzine) for depression.

That said, I would not suggest anyone try anything with PEA unless they are sure both of the purity and the dosage of their phenethylamine. Chocolate/cocoa is not a good source; methylxanthine, theobromine and other alkaloids will be much more prominent than PEA.

There's no combination that any bluelighter is likely to use that could be considered "safe."

Link? I don't recommend the use of MAO-A inhibitor in most cases.

Pure PEA is commonly available as a supplement in the US.

Also while not confirmed there are reports that:

Nardil was changed in late 2003, due to a complete reformulation by Pfizer, who removed many of the excipient ingredients, including the hard coating. It is possible that the current version is not surviving the stomach acid content and therefore not as much is being absorbed into the bloodstream. It is also possible that the machinery used to mix and manufacture Nardil is, since Pfizer acquired the medication, not able to sufficiently blend and mix the medication, making parts or all of some lots irregular in the content of medication delivered to the system.

Many users continue to experience difficulties following this change. The indicated dosage has not been altered by Pfizer, nor did they advise physicians or pharmacies of these changes, yet the recommended dosage seems not to have the desired effect on many. It is believed that, currently, there are some 75,000 to 85,000 people taking Nardil worldwide. The original formulation of Nardil is no longer available. It is now produced by Concord Pharmaceuticals in the UK.
 
I'll search for the studies, but I don't really care to prove the point as I think that recreational use of PEA and MAOIs is inherently dangerous regardless of selectivity. If you have access to anything published about PEA and MAO-B inhibitors, I'd like to see it.

NeuronalPerception said:
Pure PEA is commonly available as a supplement in the US.

"Pure [chemical]" and "supplement" sound fishy in combination. If it's the same supplier that was the main source of PEA "supplement" a few years ago, I have serious doubts about its purity.
 
sdfromage said:
I'll search for the studies, but I don't really care to prove the point as I think that recreational use of PEA and MAOIs is inherently dangerous regardless of selectivity. If you have access to anything published about PEA and MAO-B inhibitors, I'd like to see it.



"Pure [chemical]" and "supplement" sound fishy in combination. If it's the same supplier that was the main source of PEA "supplement" a few years ago, I have serious doubts about its purity.


Anything can be dangerous in the hands of the uneducated.

J Neuropsychiatry Clin Neurosci. 1996 Spring;8(2):168-71.
Sustained antidepressant effect of PEA replacement.Sabelli H, Fink P, Fawcett J, Tom C.
Rush University and the Center for Creative Development, Chicago, Illinois, USA.

Phenylethylamine (PEA), an endogenous neuroamine, increases attention and activity in animals and has been shown to relieve depression in 60% of depressed patients. It has been proposed that PEA deficit may be the cause of a common form of depressive illness. Fourteen patients with major depressive episodes that responded to PEA treatment (10-60 mg orally per day, with 10 mg/day selegiline to prevent rapid PEA destruction) were reexamined 20 to 50 weeks later. The antidepressant response had been maintained in 12 patients. Effective dosage did not change with time. There were no apparent side effects. PEA produces sustained relief of depression in a significant number of patients, including some unresponsive to the standard treatments. PEA improves mood as rapidly as amphetamine but does not produce tolerance.

Pure Vitamin C sounds find to me. Several companies make PEA.
 
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I wonder if, someone with a background in chemistry could make phenylethylamine via the reaction of chlorobenzine with ethylamine, or anyline with ethyl chloride. Also, if one has hold of pure beta phenylethylamine, could it be methylated in the alpha position to produce pure dextroamphetamine
Sorry if this sounds stupid, I love chemistry, yet I don't have a great understanding of it
 
You can't simply "methylate" any carbon, and you definitely can't methylated the alpha carbon of phenethylamine.

And the reagents you listed to make phenethylamine wouldn't work either. Bluelight doesn't allow synthesis discussion anyway.
 
Phenethylamine is an unscheduled non-psychoactive chemical that has no particular value as a drug precursor--in other words you can probably find it by the kilogram on Amazon. No point in going to the effort of synthesizing it, except for the sheer fun of doing chemistry... but then there are a lot of other syntheses you could do that would probably be more fun/interesting. Also, like I said, it has no particular value as a precursor. You can't simply add a methyl group anywhere on a compound--especially unlikely right there under the amine. But we don't do chemistry talk here.

Beyond that: Massive doses of phenethylamine--enough to flood MAO can achieve a stimulating effect. Also phenethylamine with a monoamine substrate like hordenine or b. cappi is a combination that's supposed to induce a very euphoric but very brief stimulant high. Selegiline also works, but is playing with fire: Yes, it's selective for MAO-B.... but it's also a higher affinity and longer lasting inhibitor of MAO. If you're intent on doing this, you're going to want to do this in the way least likely to end in a hypertensive crisis. That means use a relatively benign/inert chemical as an MAO substrate--like hordenine--combined with a progressively titrated dose of phenethylamine to get effect. Then cool it, and come back another time at that active dose level.

But really, playing with MAO inhibition just to achieve a stimulant effect is beyond absurd. You're adding a whole lot of risk of bodily harm in the case of error, for a payoff that's just not that great.
 
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