I am new here and I have a very deep concern for my son. He has informed me that he is taking 4-Fluoroamphetamine to focus on his studies and then is taking Phenazepam to sleep. I do not like what I am seeing. His whole personality is changing I want to know what the symptoms are when taking this and if hallucinating is one of them. He is getting these drugs from the internet. I am deeply concerned! I am looking for honest advice...
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Phenazepam
- Thread starter momma
- Start date
With prolonged use of stimulants (like 4-Fluoroamphetamine) it can lead to psychotic behavior without proper sleep. I wouldn't be surprised if he'd become more manic, a lot more demanding and quick to anger and lacking in inhibition; the latter would be a side-effect of the phenazepam, a benzodiazepine (currently legal?) in the UK, which has been known to cause horrendous blackouts and amnesia.
The 4-AF may cause alertness, lack of appetite, inability to fall asleep (like a couple of cans of 'Red Bull', I suppose...) and various other side-effects one would expect from a stimulant. Here's a list from "Drugs.com" regarding Amphetamines, and since 4-AF is probably similar, I'll just post this, although I expect the effects (both positive and negitive) would be far, far less powerful in the case of a new "Designer Drug"; the most effective drugs tend to be the ones that've been made illegal, thus pushing people to move onto more and more dangerous compounds with far more side-effects...
Side-effects might include:
Glassy eyes, much like when you're drunk.
Drunken gait; bad posture, as if standing up is difficult in and of itself.
Slurred speech.
Unexpected and sudden outbursts - you're incapable of feeling anxiety, paranoia or fear and you've (currently) no inhibitions; you're going to say what's on your mind!
Amnesia; deterioration of short-term and eventually long-term memory.
Difficulty forming new memories.
Muscle relaxation, but I suppose that's covered in the bit about gait, posture and speech...
That's just a list of Phenazepam side-effects, by the way. It's a sedative a lot like VALIUM, if you've ever heard of or used a drug similar to it. If not, perhaps a barbiturate or anything like that? Well, phenazepam is not innately dangerous on its own, but when combined with other sedatives that depress the Central Nervous System and slow down one's breathing (alcohol, opiates [morphine, codeine, methadone, diamorphine, etc], barbiturates and literally any other sedative) someone could very well end up dead. However, that'd be an extreme case and I only mention it to warn you...
How long has he been taking these medications without the supervision of a GP, psychologist or doctor of some kind?
Benzodiazepines don't really allow for a lot of REM sleep, so you're not likely to feel as well-rested once you wake up. After seven years on diazepam, I know that I didn't once dream whilst under a heavy dose and I made a lot of spontaneous, dangerously impulsive decisions, with the danger increased when money was involved.
Anyway, enough of my experience. I hope that your son has not been taking this combination for very long, as it's entirely possible to become physically dependent upon both substances, although benzodiazepine withdrawal is a hell you cannot imagine, and amphetamine addiction is typically considered more psychological in nature, though it could also be considered a hell you can't imagine!
[Note: Very tired and typing this with my eyes half-closed. Hope I got some info. correct, but please don't be too harsh on your son. I know it's not my business, but whether we drink, smoke or shoot coke into the veins beneath our tongues, we all end up doing drugs at some point, though I would suggest trying to make sure he keeps it occasional rather than too frequently, as that's when dependency comes in... >_< ]
The 4-AF may cause alertness, lack of appetite, inability to fall asleep (like a couple of cans of 'Red Bull', I suppose...) and various other side-effects one would expect from a stimulant. Here's a list from "Drugs.com" regarding Amphetamines, and since 4-AF is probably similar, I'll just post this, although I expect the effects (both positive and negitive) would be far, far less powerful in the case of a new "Designer Drug"; the most effective drugs tend to be the ones that've been made illegal, thus pushing people to move onto more and more dangerous compounds with far more side-effects...
Side-effects might include:
Glassy eyes, much like when you're drunk.
Drunken gait; bad posture, as if standing up is difficult in and of itself.
Slurred speech.
Unexpected and sudden outbursts - you're incapable of feeling anxiety, paranoia or fear and you've (currently) no inhibitions; you're going to say what's on your mind!
Amnesia; deterioration of short-term and eventually long-term memory.
Difficulty forming new memories.
Muscle relaxation, but I suppose that's covered in the bit about gait, posture and speech...
That's just a list of Phenazepam side-effects, by the way. It's a sedative a lot like VALIUM, if you've ever heard of or used a drug similar to it. If not, perhaps a barbiturate or anything like that? Well, phenazepam is not innately dangerous on its own, but when combined with other sedatives that depress the Central Nervous System and slow down one's breathing (alcohol, opiates [morphine, codeine, methadone, diamorphine, etc], barbiturates and literally any other sedative) someone could very well end up dead. However, that'd be an extreme case and I only mention it to warn you...
How long has he been taking these medications without the supervision of a GP, psychologist or doctor of some kind?
Benzodiazepines don't really allow for a lot of REM sleep, so you're not likely to feel as well-rested once you wake up. After seven years on diazepam, I know that I didn't once dream whilst under a heavy dose and I made a lot of spontaneous, dangerously impulsive decisions, with the danger increased when money was involved.
Anyway, enough of my experience. I hope that your son has not been taking this combination for very long, as it's entirely possible to become physically dependent upon both substances, although benzodiazepine withdrawal is a hell you cannot imagine, and amphetamine addiction is typically considered more psychological in nature, though it could also be considered a hell you can't imagine!
[Note: Very tired and typing this with my eyes half-closed. Hope I got some info. correct, but please don't be too harsh on your son. I know it's not my business, but whether we drink, smoke or shoot coke into the veins beneath our tongues, we all end up doing drugs at some point, though I would suggest trying to make sure he keeps it occasional rather than too frequently, as that's when dependency comes in... >_< ]
the 4-fa will deplete his serotonin if taken every day, and phenazepam has a half-life of about 3 days
as he keeps taking the phenazepam it builds up in his system, leading to more 4-fa to get the safe effects and the previous day
also, phenazepam withdrawal can include vomiting blood and seizures
as he keeps taking the phenazepam it builds up in his system, leading to more 4-fa to get the safe effects and the previous day
also, phenazepam withdrawal can include vomiting blood and seizures
herbavore
Bluelight Crew
Hey, momma, welcome. How old is your son? It is encouraging that he is honest with you about what he is doing. Does he see a problem with it? I am hoping that he told you about what he is taking because he is concerned himself; otherwise, unfortunately, there is not a whole lot that you can do from the outside.
@ Kerrigan--that was an awesome post!
Thank you for all the information. I think that is exactly what momma was looking for.
@ Kerrigan--that was an awesome post!
Thank you for all the information. I think that is exactly what momma was looking for.
RedLeader
Bluelight Crew
momma, one thing to understand is that phenazepam belongs to a class of drugs known as 'benzodiazepines' or 'benzos,' that also includes Xanax, Klonopin, Valium and Ativan, which is known to have very real and dangerous withdrawals in persons who are (seriously) dependent. I don't want to scare you, but people do get seizures and other complications when they are forced to quit such drugs too sharply/suddenly. I don't know how much of it he is taking, or how long he has been taking it, so I'm not really able to even make a guess on if he would face a physical withdrawal or how bad it would be. With that said, what you should be careful about doing is anything along the lines of 'taking all of his drugs away from him' if you want to see him quit. At times this can seem like the obvious solution, but when we're dealing with stuff that does come packaged with a withdrawal, sometimes a more gradual intervention is the safest thing to do.
He won't like losing the 4-FA, but it does not pose the same type of danger.
If his use of the phenazepam is serious enough that you think he's facing a physical withdrawal (has he been using it daily for at least a month?), then I would definitely line something up with a local doctor if he is to be taken off of it in a safe way. As well, it's probably best to wean off of these drugs at different times, coming off of the stimulant first.
He won't like losing the 4-FA, but it does not pose the same type of danger.
If his use of the phenazepam is serious enough that you think he's facing a physical withdrawal (has he been using it daily for at least a month?), then I would definitely line something up with a local doctor if he is to be taken off of it in a safe way. As well, it's probably best to wean off of these drugs at different times, coming off of the stimulant first.
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Titus
Bluelighter
Here's my 2 cents: Give yourself a HUGE pat on the back for having established such a relationship with your son such that he feels he can be (and apparently is) honest with you about such matters. Your doing a lot right just be me knowing this little bit of info.
When I was a kid my parents told me if I smoked pot I might cook a baby in a microwave b/c someone did that. I then learned they smoked it themselves. I then lost all respect for them and distrusted them (very brief version). So your ahead of the game in many respects. I think you deserve a big pat on the back for having your kids trust and respect. I'm jealous I didn't have that when I was a kid and it hurt me a lot (still effects my life to this day and I'm in my 40's).
Good luck.
When I was a kid my parents told me if I smoked pot I might cook a baby in a microwave b/c someone did that. I then learned they smoked it themselves. I then lost all respect for them and distrusted them (very brief version). So your ahead of the game in many respects. I think you deserve a big pat on the back for having your kids trust and respect. I'm jealous I didn't have that when I was a kid and it hurt me a lot (still effects my life to this day and I'm in my 40's).
Good luck.
flyonth3wall
Bluelighter
Was gonna type out a response, but honestly, I have nothing to add to the above info. Great posts especially by Kerrigan and RedLeader. Hope you manage to help your son momma. Take care and good luck.
You sound like a great mother, momma.
It's very refreshing to see a parent to come on somewhere like Bluelight to educate yourself on the drugs your son is taking.
A lot of parents just over react,throw the drugs out and achieve nothing.
At least you are able to have an adult conversation with your son and discuss the pitfalls of what he is doing.
I hope everything works out ok for you and your son and congratulations on being such a great parent.
It's very refreshing to see a parent to come on somewhere like Bluelight to educate yourself on the drugs your son is taking.
A lot of parents just over react,throw the drugs out and achieve nothing.
At least you are able to have an adult conversation with your son and discuss the pitfalls of what he is doing.
I hope everything works out ok for you and your son and congratulations on being such a great parent.
I think that my experience is similar to that of your sons so perhaps I can help a bit.
When I was in highschool I was prescribed a drug called dextroamphetamine for ADD. This drug produces similar effects as 4-fa I believe.
The primary reason I started taking the drug was for focus. It would let me concentrate on my school work and perform at an acceptable level when I was always very bad at school. After some time I realized that the drug made me feel very GOOD, when I was on it I was content and just motored along through my life. Unfortunately sleep was also an issue so I was perscribed a drug called ativan, which like phenazepam is also a benzo. And my life went on like this for quite some time until I had my prescriptions cut off.
Honestly when I lost those drugs I felt TERRIBLE. it was like my whole world had come apart. I was exhausted, grumpy, unmotivated, had no desire to do ANYTHING and thanks to the benzo withdrawl had pretty awful anxiety. I was so furious at my doctor and my parents for taking me off the drugs because my life was going so DAMN WELL and I hadn't even really DESERVED to be taken off the prescriptions that helped me function like a normal person.
After several months, however, I came to a pretty major realization. The drugs didnt' really make me feel all that GOOD as much as they just smoothed out my moods. I was pretty much moodless at all times, just wrapped up in my own little world puttering away on my day to day life. I didn't really have any meaningful friendships, or hobbies, or anything that provided me with personal satisfaction because I didn't need it. By the time I had gotten healthier, eaten correctly and actually exercised my mind had begun to adapt to the normal routine of life. I began to use the personal satisfaction of success to motivate me to sit through something I didn't want to do (like chores), and when I had free time I actually used it to do something for myself and lets just say my life has improved DRASTICALLY since then.
I'm not sure if this helps at all i'm just trying to give you an idea of how I felt at that time in my life. If I was to go back and give myself advice i'd want to say that I never really NEEDED to be medicated because there was nothing wrong with me, I just had to take the time to adapt my brain to this new way of life.
When I was in highschool I was prescribed a drug called dextroamphetamine for ADD. This drug produces similar effects as 4-fa I believe.
The primary reason I started taking the drug was for focus. It would let me concentrate on my school work and perform at an acceptable level when I was always very bad at school. After some time I realized that the drug made me feel very GOOD, when I was on it I was content and just motored along through my life. Unfortunately sleep was also an issue so I was perscribed a drug called ativan, which like phenazepam is also a benzo. And my life went on like this for quite some time until I had my prescriptions cut off.
Honestly when I lost those drugs I felt TERRIBLE. it was like my whole world had come apart. I was exhausted, grumpy, unmotivated, had no desire to do ANYTHING and thanks to the benzo withdrawl had pretty awful anxiety. I was so furious at my doctor and my parents for taking me off the drugs because my life was going so DAMN WELL and I hadn't even really DESERVED to be taken off the prescriptions that helped me function like a normal person.
After several months, however, I came to a pretty major realization. The drugs didnt' really make me feel all that GOOD as much as they just smoothed out my moods. I was pretty much moodless at all times, just wrapped up in my own little world puttering away on my day to day life. I didn't really have any meaningful friendships, or hobbies, or anything that provided me with personal satisfaction because I didn't need it. By the time I had gotten healthier, eaten correctly and actually exercised my mind had begun to adapt to the normal routine of life. I began to use the personal satisfaction of success to motivate me to sit through something I didn't want to do (like chores), and when I had free time I actually used it to do something for myself and lets just say my life has improved DRASTICALLY since then.
I'm not sure if this helps at all i'm just trying to give you an idea of how I felt at that time in my life. If I was to go back and give myself advice i'd want to say that I never really NEEDED to be medicated because there was nothing wrong with me, I just had to take the time to adapt my brain to this new way of life.
DexterMeth
Bluelighter
Your son is mostly changing because he is growing up.
If its possible Momma could you keep us updated as to how things worked out for your son and you.
I do think it is great seeing a parent educating themselves about drugs and therefore helping you to make informed decisions about what to do regarding your son.
I wish you and your son all the best.
I do think it is great seeing a parent educating themselves about drugs and therefore helping you to make informed decisions about what to do regarding your son.
I wish you and your son all the best.