Personal Adderall/Sleep Research

[Asparagus_Prince]

Edit: I have a few questions here. You don't need to read through my subsequent stuff to answer these...

1. When taking Adderall sublingually (as opposed to orally) I know the liver is bypassed. Therefore does it make sense to assume it leaves the body more slowly?

2. Does anyone have any information (or anecdotal opinions) on taking Adderall when fasting vs food in stomach? With food in stomach it seems to me the effects aren't as strong, but that perhaps the Adderall leaves the body at a slower rate. Agree?

3. I know "half-life" refers to how long it takes a substance to be half gone from the body. But does that refer to the initial halving of the substance only? If that question is confusing let me ask it another way: Let's say 10 hours after taking Adderall the plasma levels in the body are 24. Does that mean another 10 hours later the plasma level would roughly half again from 24 down to 12? And then 6 after another 10 hours, and so on?

4. Other than fasting and antacids what other factors have you noticed that influences the strength and duration of Adderall?

5. Any other random comments/thoughts along these lines would be appreciated!

And now to my original post, if you're curious why I'm asking these questions....

Recently I’ve been tracking my Adderall usage in an effort to better understand how it affects my sleep. Or, to put it differently, to better forecast how well I’ll sleep based on my Adderall intake that day. Last week the member "someguyontheinternet" responded to me and talked about Adderall levels in the blood/plasma. And ever since I’ve been looking into this deeper.

Basically, my goal is to develop an “Adderall Sleep Number” (ASN) based on how much Adderall is still in my system when I want to go to sleep. This number will mostly be based on the plasma level number. But it will factor in other variables, too, such as natural exhaustion, whether or not I’m premature or overdue for sleep, etc etc. For example, suppose last night I had a normal 8 hours of sleep. And then tonight (Monday night) I have a plasma level of 50 when I hit the sack. And I don’t sleep well. I sleep, but not well or soundly. Then tomorrow night (Tuesday night) I set things up to go to bed with the same exact ASN of 50. The only difference is I’m running on 3 hours of sleep, NOT a normal 8 hours. And I sleep fine. Obviously the extra exhaustion offset the Adderalll's tendency to disrupt sleep.

So, I want this ASN to factor in variables like natural exhaustion, too. If my plasma levels are at 50, but I am sleep-deprived by 5 hours one day, then perhaps that 50 number should be adjusted to 40. If I’m sleep deprived by 3 hours, then maybe it’s 45.

Ultimately I want this ASN to give me an idea of how well I’ll sleep when I decide to try. Let’s say my findings ultimately suggest that my ASN needs to stay at 40 (max) at bedtime if I want to sleep normally. But suppose one night I’m unusually physically exhausted from the day. And I know I want to go to sleep early even though my ASN is, say, 50. I know from experience what happens in situations like this… I’ll crash for an hour or 2 but then I’m awake again. Which is unusual for me because historically my problem is actually sleeping too much, not too little.

So… I’ve been keeping a spreadsheet of how each day has gone. How much Adderall, when taken, how well I slept the night before, etc etc. And I’ve been using myself as an experimental guinea pig by going to bed earlier on purpose, later on purpose, taking larger amounts of Adderall early in the day vs lesser amounts closer to bedtime, etc etc.

So feel free to comment or leave suggestions. Or if you have a request of something I can “try”… feel free to let me know.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

I'm glad you're putting in the effort to quantitate the impact of adderall on your sleep, that's a neat project! I definitely want to keep up to see how it goes

 

[Asparagus_Prince]

Oh, and I forgot to ask my questions!

First of all, my rough guide currently is based on 15mg dextroamphetamine pills. Based on my small amount of research it looks like my plasma levels, after 1 single pill swallowed, are:

1 hour after taken- 12
2 hours later- 35
3 hours later- 42
4 hours later- 43
5 hours later- 40
6 hours later- 38
8 hours later- 33
10 hours later- 29
12 hours later- 23
14 hours later- 21
15 hours later- 19
20 hours later- 14
24 hours later- 10

So this is my starting point for finding my ASN. If I take one 15mg pill at 12noon, and I want to go to bed 12 hours later at midnight, then I'm considering my ASN to be 23 at midnight.

So I have some questions for anyone that may be able to give me some guidance. Please feel free to answer any of these...

-IS the Adderall plasma level a reasonable way of gauging sleep efficacy?
-What about taking Adderall sublingually? I've heard (on here, I believe) that sublingually essentially strengthens the dose because of liver bypass. I can't remember the number, but I'm thinking it was something like 30% stronger effects. If you were me would you increase those numbers on my chart above by 30% IF taking sublingually*?
-Also, on the same sublingual topic, how quickly do you suppose the plasma levels max out when taken sublingually? According to my numbers above it's around 3 or 4 hours if the pill is swallowed normally. But does everything get moved up 1 hour when taken sublingually? Or 2-3 hours? I tried to find a plasma/half-life chart online specific to sublingual Adderall use, but haven't found one yet.
-Does anyone know much or have any links about Adderall absorption when it comes to fasting/food in stomach? (Note- I am trying to keep my eating/hydration/activity habits roughly the same everyday so hopefully they don't skew my numbers much).
-I know half-life refers to how long it takes a substance to be half gone from the body. But does that refer to the initial halving of the substance only? If that question doesn't make sense let me ask it like this: According to my numbers above the Adderall levels peak at 43, about 4 hours after taking it. 10 hours later at the 14-hour mark it's roughly halved down to 21. Then 10 hours later at the 24 hour mark it's been roughly halved again. Is this a coincidence or can we always expect the half-life of Adderall (or any drug and its own half-life, for that matter?) to continue halving every 10 hours? Or just the initial 10 hours? At 34 hours should I expect the plasma levels to be 5? And at 44 hours about 2.5?

Thanks in advance! I feel like I may have had more questions but I'll add them if necessary.

*PS.... The sublingual thing is something else I plan to experiment with. Suppose I find out that taking 30mg Adderall requires minimum 12 hours awake-time before I'm able to sleep normally. 10 hours awake time? Nope, can't sleep yet. What about 40mg of Adderall 12 hours before bed? Nope, that dose is too much. So I find that 30mg 12 hours before bedtime is the absolute minimum. Now... what if I take that same 30mg at 12noon sublingually? Will I still sleep fine 12 hours later? I'm eager to find shit like this out. On one hand the effects will happen sooner sublingually, so you'd think that also means leaving the body sooner. But does the extra 30% strength act as essetually a dosage increase? If so will this roughly balance out the quicker onset variable? (These questions are more rhetorical. I'm not necessarily expecting answers to this. I'm just trying to explain what I'm up to).

 

[Asparagus_Prince]

I'm glad you're putting in the effort to quantitate the impact of adderall on your sleep, that's a neat project! I definitely want to keep up to see how it goes

Yes.

You unwittingly motivated me. Your response about the plasma levels got me thinking.... I want to quantify this shit!

Everyone is different, obviously. But maybe my findings can help someone make their own estimations.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Keeping a "drug journal" has really helped me identify a lot of problematic side effects or bad interactions I've encountered.

Every time I dose anything, I note the amount and time. It's a habit I've gotten into.

It really helps minimize problems, because I can more easily identify what is causing them.

In the past when I was taking several different things, combined with several different vitamins or supplements, it was very difficult to find what the root cause of a side effect was. Relying on memory didn't work. Now if I run into a side effect I can just look at my journal and check for any deviations in my normal routine, and that's usually always the cause of the problem.

It also helps keep me accountable if I start taking more than I intended to.

 

[Asparagus_Prince]

Keeping a "drug journal" has really helped me identify a lot of problematic side effects or bad interactions I've encountered.

Every time I dose anything, I note the amount and time. It's a habit I've gotten into.

It really helps minimize problems, because I can more easily identify what is causing them.

In the past when I was taking several different things, combined with several different vitamins or supplements, it was very difficult to find what the root cause of a side effect was. Relying on memory didn't work. Now if I run into a side effect I can just look at my journal and check for any deviations in my normal routine, and that's usually always the cause of the problem.

It also helps keep me accountable if I start taking more than I intended to.

Exactly.

Over the last couple years I've been tracking my Adderall daily in a spreadsheet. Like you mentioned, it's helped me to identify problems. For example, one time (maybe on here) I told someone that I had cut down on my Adderall usage compared to a year earlier. Then, I looked at my spreadsheet and I was like... uh, wrong. I had cut down on the extremes of my binges, but not overall average monthly use.

It bugs me when I don't know the answer to something me-related. Why did I have that headache? Why am I so cranky today? Why does my crotch smell like tuna? Experimenting with using is right up my alley. I might learn a thing or 2 instead of learning something the hard way in the future.

Facts, truth, and staying in touch with reality has become my religion.

 

[Asparagus_Prince]

Bumping my thread to simplify a bit...

If anyone wants to tackle any of these questions, I'd appreciate it.

1. When taking Adderall sublingually (as opposed to orally) I know the liver is bypassed. Therefore does it make sense to assume it leaves the body more slowly?

2. Does anyone have any information (or anecdotal opinions) on taking Adderall when fasting vs food in stomach? With food in stomach it seems to me the effects aren't as strong, but that perhaps the Adderall leaves the body at a slower rate. Agree?

3. I know "half-life" refers to how long it takes a substance to be half gone from the body. But does that refer to the initial halving of the substance only? If that question is confusing let me ask it another way: Let's say 10 hours after taking Adderall the plasma levels in the body are 24. Does that mean another 10 hours later the plasma level would roughly half again from 24 down to 12? And then 6 after another 10 hours, and so on?

4. Other than fasting and antacids what other factors have you noticed that influences the strength and duration of Adderall?

5. Any other random comments/thoughts along these lines would be appreciated!

 

[someguyontheinternet]

For 1 and 2, rate of metabolism/elimination at least partially depend on how fast it gets into the blood. The faster it gets in the blood, the faster it gets eliminated. Food definitely slows absorption and while I don't know the sublingual bioavailability of amphetamine, I would assume this route would be eliminated faster. All blood goes through the liver eventually, sublingual just gets more unmetabolized drug to the brain more quickly

3. Half life is constant not initial so if you administer 20mg, one half life gives you 10 left then 5 then 2.5 etc

4. This I don't necessarily have an answer for besides what I've already mentioned about rate of absorption for 1/2