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  • LAVA Moderator: Shinji Ikari

Perpetual students

In one of the tapes I listened to, it said that these days a lot of people should expect to change careers a few times in their life time. In the old times when someone got a good job with some company they most likely worked there until retirement. These days to be competitive u have to stay on top of your game when it comes to career. Also people have a lot more options these days and when someone doesn't like their job they should go for it and do something else.

But I think there is a difference b/w "career students" and people taking school in 30s and 40s. The first group are people, IMO, who don't really want to get a job and are choosing to stay in school in order not to work. The second group are people who want to improve their career options or don't like their current occupation and want to do something they like. But the second group's intent is to use the education in order to work but the first group's intent is to keep going to school forever hence the name "career student".
 
All the career students I know are only staying in school as long as they can because it's what they know, is less "scary" than striking out and starting a career, and they are going to live off student loans as long as the government will allow. In some fields, extensive education is necessary if one is to move beyond a certain income/responsibility level, but 8 years to complete a theatre degree? A BACHELOR'S DEGREE?! Ridiculous, lazy, and escapist IMO.

Most of the people I know in various fields with Master's degrees are no better off than the ones with Bachelor's degrees--making the same money, dealing with the same uncertainty in this shitty economy, and paying more on student loans than folks like me with only a B.A.
 
8 years to complete a theatre degree? A BACHELOR'S DEGREE?!
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Some people juggle career (full time), kids, family, and school. I juggled a 50-hour work week with doing as much school as I could to maintain grades (like 6-10 credits depending on difficulty). I can't even fucking imagine if I had a kid and a family to deal with too. 8 years is pretty viable if you can only go part time.
 
^ Wow, I can't imagine working 50 hours and doing school. I'm a full time student now, 12 hours and will be like this for the next 3-4 years until I finish Speech Therapy MS. It sucks for me financially, living on 1 income. Hope it's all worth it at the end.
 
It's taken me 2 1/2 years to complete a little more than one years worth of classes, so yeah I can understand eight years... for me it's working 40+ hours and having to pay my own tuition (don't have the time to take a full load and don't have the money to pay for it).
 
Well, I am 26 and just about to finish my associate degree (Drugs took two years off of my life, I'd have been finished 2 years ago with that) and, after this, I will immediately go to another school to get my BA. After that, I plan to go for my MA, and after that, my PHD. I think learning for a living is the best way to go. Of course, I will be working while I earn my MA and PHD, but I'm going to follow it through because I have the smarts to do so.
 
emperorofusa said:
Well, I am 26 and just about to finish my associate degree (Drugs took two years off of my life, I'd have been finished 2 years ago with that) and, after this, I will immediately go to another school to get my BA. After that, I plan to go for my MA, and after that, my PHD. I think learning for a living is the best way to go. Of course, I will be working while I earn my MA and PHD, but I'm going to follow it through because I have the smarts to do so.
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This is a good attitude.
 
But I think there is a difference b/w "career students" and people taking school in 30s and 40s. The first group are people, IMO, who don't really want to get a job and are choosing to stay in school in order not to work. The second group are people who want to improve their career options or don't like their current occupation and want to do something they like
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I agree, but I'd like to add that the first group would do better to wander into grad-school where this type of thing is more appropriate.

ebola
 
Im currently a student only because i get student allowance(you get money from govt for free, dont have to pay it back).

If this wasnt here and i had to pay back all of the shit im getting, i wouldnt be doing my course.
 
moonyham said:
Im currently a student only because i get student allowance(you get money from govt for free, dont have to pay it back).

If this wasnt here and i had to pay back all of the shit im getting, i wouldnt be doing my course.
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IMO, this is the major problem with the US and Canada. We're so damn far behind Northern Europse and Aus. when it comes to social assistance for education, that it deters people from pursuing school. Atleast in Canada, you are guaranteed a fixed interest loan regardless of credit, and you'll never be required to pay back more than you can afford.
 
Yeah New Zealand is shit for alot of things, but for students and education it is great(well, i thought highschool system was pretty shit - NCEA).

This is what my situation is:

I can get a student loan(i think up to 10k? maybe more). This is available to anyone over 18, and is interest free if you stay in the country. I can get 1000$ in cash in the duration of this course, for 'course related costs' aka books etc. I get 120$ student allowance every week, and if that is not enough, i can get 155, but that extra 35$ is put on my loan, and i have to pay it back.

Theres all sorts of perks aswell, like banks give you good deals, i think the govt has deals with the banks etc. For example, i can get 1000$ overdraft, interest free, with my current bank. Each bank has dif deals.. havnt really snooped around much though. Ya can also get low interest CC's and so on. Studend ID is another perk which means i get public transport and public facilities(like swimming pools owned by the city council) for cheap. Oh and i also can get a $10k loan from my bank when i finish my course with very low interest.

I dont have to pay any of the money back(loan) until im earning something like, $17k or $18k a year. I only have to pay 10%(minimum) of my paycheck(once over 17/18k) towards the loan... and can do this for as long as i want/till the loan is paid off.

As long as i complete this course(pass) and have more than 50% attendance(something like that) then i can get another loan for another course after ive finished this one.


Pretty good huh.
 
moonyham said:
Yeah New Zealand is shit for alot of things, but for students and education it is great(well, i thought highschool system was pretty shit - NCEA).

This is what my situation is:

I can get a student loan(i think up to 10k? maybe more). This is available to anyone over 18, and is interest free if you stay in the country. I can get 1000$ in cash in the duration of this course, for 'course related costs' aka books etc. I get 120$ student allowance every week, and if that is not enough, i can get 155, but that extra 35$ is put on my loan, and i have to pay it back.

Theres all sorts of perks aswell, like banks give you good deals, i think the govt has deals with the banks etc. For example, i can get 1000$ overdraft, interest free, with my current bank. Each bank has dif deals.. havnt really snooped around much though. Ya can also get low interest CC's and so on. Studend ID is another perk which means i get public transport and public facilities(like swimming pools owned by the city council) for cheap. Oh and i also can get a $10k loan from my bank when i finish my course with very low interest.

I dont have to pay any of the money back(loan) until im earning something like, $17k or $18k a year. I only have to pay 10%(minimum) of my paycheck(once over 17/18k) towards the loan... and can do this for as long as i want/till the loan is paid off.

As long as i complete this course(pass) and have more than 50% attendance(something like that) then i can get another loan for another course after ive finished this one.


Pretty good huh.
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Yeah, in Canada we get some similar perks. Reduction rates on public transport as well as fitness facilities.

We don't give students a living allowance unless they jump through a lot of hoops, which I'm currently in the process of applying for. Education is heavily subsidized and standardized so we don't have "Ivy league" type Universities here, and tuition is relatively cheap, but not even close to free. We pay interest on loans, but they are in a state of relief for the duration of your schooling.

One major downside is the complete privatization of banks. Because student debt is guaranteed even through bankruptcy, banks don't like to give money to students or recent graduates with debt. That makes getting a loan quite difficult.
 
Getting back to the topic of career students, I wonder if anyone has went to school, graduated, checked out the work force, and decided school was better.

I ask because I've basically done this. I graduated with an associates with a post-grad certification, and found that employers weren't paying well enough, and my interests had changed. So, I decided to say "fuck off" to the working world, and go to school for something else; basically starting from scratch.

My dilemma will be when I'm 35, ass up in debt, and ready for my first real permanent job. Are employers are going to look at a mile-long resume of temporary and part-time jobs, as well as a broad based education, and think I'm unreliable or have career ADD? Or will they be impressed by the girth of my surface skill set?

Seems like you can't win unless at some point, you suck it up and make some sacrifices.
 
I somewhat dislike career students. They add nothing to society, but do drain it taking govt money (all uni in canada is subsidized for a resident...look at the difference in tuition between resident and non resident, that difference is paid by the tax payer...me) and they add nothing/produce nothing of benefit.
 
rangrz said:
I somewhat dislike career students. They add nothing to society, but do drain it taking govt money (all uni in canada is subsidized for a resident...look at the difference in tuition between resident and non resident, that difference is paid by the tax payer...me) and they add nothing/produce nothing of benefit.
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I'm not sure I'd lump a career student in with a welfare recipient or someone who milks a disability claim.

If there were appropriate paying jobs demanding recent graduates, then this wouldn't be a problem in the first place. I think many recent graduates feel compelled to continue upgrading their education after they realize that nobody's offering them a job that is entry level + compensate for their loan payback.

I just realized you probably only read the first post. :\
 
Kyk said:
Getting back to the topic of career students, I wonder if anyone has went to school, graduated, checked out the work force, and decided school was better.

I ask because I've basically done this. I graduated with an associates with a post-grad certification, and found that employers weren't paying well enough, and my interests had changed. So, I decided to say "fuck off" to the working world, and go to school for something else; basically starting from scratch.

My dilemma will be when I'm 35, ass up in debt, and ready for my first real permanent job. Are employers are going to look at a mile-long resume of temporary and part-time jobs, as well as a broad based education, and think I'm unreliable or have career ADD? Or will they be impressed by the girth of my surface skill set?

Seems like you can't win unless at some point, you suck it up and make some sacrifices.
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It really depends. My last boss reeeeally took how much you jumped jobs into consideration. He basically threw out apps where people jumped jobs.

But, in my previous job they couldn't care less. One of my coworkers who I had mad respect for never stayed at a job longer than a year. He always jumped jobs to increase his salary.

The only real way to make money in a career is to jump jobs each time making a few grand more. You can make a lot more money when you want a raise by jumping jobs and you learn more in the process making yourself more valuable to the next employer. Never ever feel obligated or tied to any job or you'll only do yourself a disservice. Once a job expires in teaching you something or providing you with an honest living, it's time to find another. Most people will tell you this is a bad idea, but as long as you're looking for a job while employed, then having someone deny your application due to too many other jobs isn't really an issue. I don't think it matters to most hiring managers though. They care more about the skills you bring to the job and your experience. I don't really have a great history with former employers and I just tell hiring managers I was laid off. LOL
 
Lysis said:
It really depends. My last boss reeeeally took how much you jumped jobs into consideration. He basically threw out apps where people jumped jobs.

But, in my previous job they couldn't care less. One of my coworkers who I had mad respect for never stayed at a job longer than a year. He always jumped jobs to increase his salary.

The only real way to make money in a career is to jump jobs each time making a few grand more. You can make a lot more money when you want a raise by jumping jobs and you learn more in the process making yourself more valuable to the next employer. Never ever feel obligated or tied to any job or you'll only do yourself a disservice. Once a job expires in teaching you something or providing you with an honest living, it's time to find another. Most people will tell you this is a bad idea, but as long as you're looking for a job while employed, then having someone deny your application due to too many other jobs isn't really an issue. I don't think it matters to most hiring managers though. They care more about the skills you bring to the job and your experience. I don't really have a great history with former employers and I just tell hiring managers I was laid off. LOL
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I do agree with this. I wonder why your last boss was so strict on wanting people with a stable work history. That's a red flag to me, unless he was offering the type of job with great pay and great benefits that required a long-term commitment with lots of training hours.

In my experience, employers bring job-hopping on themselves by offering "contract" and "temporary" positions as a way to mitigate risk when hiring.

It seems like many employers want it all while offering the bare minimum in return.
 
Some people can do it, I'm definitely not one of them. I'm in the middle of my second semester ATM and I can not imagine going to school for any longer then I have to. 4 years is my goal and hopefully in the end it is worth what I'm paying for it. I hate being a jealous person, but I'm truly jealous of the people that can do well in school and make it look easy. IDK about any other BL members out there, but school is a royal pain in the ass. Anyone thinking about going to college, make sure your truly interested in going.
 
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