First time poster, but I've lurked this site for years. Never before found a question I couldn't look up the answer to.
This post is really long, because there is a lot of background and personal information/details, but you can skip to the end where it says "Now is his question" and get a good understanding of the deal if you don't want to read it all.
Anway, so about 2 years ago, a good friend was dealing with a lot of mental/physical stuff following some time in Afghanistan, became a pretty consistent polydrug user. Never had a dealer, just a doctor who Rx'd him anything within reason that he asked for (could always get percs but never OC80). It was mostly stuff that quieted his mind, so benzo's and opiates. Things kept spinning downhill, and he voluntarily admitted himself to a hospital to get it under control. What he wasn't aware of was how much he loved feeling of getting doc's to write Rx's. Despite being admitted to the hospital for PTSD and opiate/benzo addiction, he left with rx's for 3 x 1mg k-pin, 3 x 1mg ativan, 2 x 150mg Lyrica and 2 x 40mg OC a day.
Since he had a good suppy of OC (albeit they were OP's), he knew well enough not to polydrug both at the same time bc of how high the dose of OC was, and because the more he took, the more he wanted more. So, it came down to him primarily using the OC, and the benzos just for when the PTSD kicked in. Now, at this point, and at every point throughout, withdrawls were never an issue. He was able to go 5 days on with 100+ mg a day, and then a weekend off without thinking twice (aside from wanting to feel stoned).
About a month after being hospitalized, some unfortunate events happened, and he started spinning down a little further in depression. Also, at work (he was a functional addict and able to work a 80k/yr job without anyone knowing the dark side), some bad shit come up that required him to leave town and family for a while. After about 3 days of being away from home, he decides to put his big brain to the problem of making OP OC into immediate release. He figures it out. He does it with 10 40mg OC. He begins consuming them in their current form with the intention of a 100mg dose, and, of course, the 100mg feels like nothing. He finished the 400mg dose. Needless to say, his friends get him to the hospital and he gets revived (which is an incrediblly odd feeling, so he says). Since he was rx'd the meds, the doc pretty much just shrugged it off and discharged him about an hour later. Guess what my friend does? You already know. Went back to his temporary accomodations, makes another batch of about 400 mg oxycodone, and despite the intention of only sipping it, down goes another 400 mg oxy. This time, though, it was accompanied by about 5 shots/beers. Low and behold, the same awesome friends who saved his ass the first time do it again. He got nalx'd twice in less than 12 hours, for taking 400mg on 2 seperate occassions!
This time the doctor realized that it wasn't just some strange allergy to the medication that was causing these effects. Rather, the allergy was every time you put an opiate in his hand he can't helpd but throw it down his throat. So, my friend was sent home, sent to an intsensive outpatient therapy, did pretty well for about a month, accidentally OD'd on ambien (unwittingly and without memory of doing so, he ate 20 ambien). I can say for certain that in this case, he really had no intention of doing it, but he later realized and read how ambien causes people to do wierd stuff. So, it seems that his pill-in-hand-must-swallow allergy was getting worse.
Fast forward to the present. It's been 2 years, and he was clean 100% for a year. After that, he wanted to test the waters, and found that he was actually able to use on an irregular basis without issues. He can use 3 nights one weekend, and not again fror 3 months without thinking twice. The biggest issue is always whethrer it is in his hands or not. As long as he makes an adamant point to avoid dealers he is good.
Now is his question:
Does having 2 heavy overdoses cause tolerance to NEVER go back down? All the standard potentiation practices are always used; grape juice, tagamet, benadryl, high fat meal have all been used individually and paired. I have read that those with experienced opiate use will gain tolerance more quickly, but never that even after letting tolerance drop for months, that it does not. He has found that he cannot get any kind of effect with anything short of at least 50mg oxy. Literally, 50 mg is his threshold for effects.That's after going a year with 100% abstinence, and only using about 5 times in the year since. Physically, my friend is in very good shape. Works out every day, runs, bikes, lifts. Not sure if that is a factor.
He recently found 6 roxi-30's which he hoped would last him months, only to discover that he only begins to feel the warmth after taking 60 mg. 3 roxi 30's feel like 3 vicodin did before he used. And again, this is with a gap in between usage that most claim to completely lose their tolerance from. So since 3 is the comfortable recreational dose, it really makes it not worth the ridiculous price for a 2 hour buzz (duration is also drasically shortened). He also want's to stick with roxi or his version of time-release-broken OC OP, since those are clean. He knows that H may be the only thing left to chase that high, but does not want to go down that road.
Thanks ya'll. I hope I posted this in the right spot. I really do hope the purpose for this post is in fact harm reduction, because my friend is becoming more and more curious about other options that are probably not the best.
This post is really long, because there is a lot of background and personal information/details, but you can skip to the end where it says "Now is his question" and get a good understanding of the deal if you don't want to read it all.
Anway, so about 2 years ago, a good friend was dealing with a lot of mental/physical stuff following some time in Afghanistan, became a pretty consistent polydrug user. Never had a dealer, just a doctor who Rx'd him anything within reason that he asked for (could always get percs but never OC80). It was mostly stuff that quieted his mind, so benzo's and opiates. Things kept spinning downhill, and he voluntarily admitted himself to a hospital to get it under control. What he wasn't aware of was how much he loved feeling of getting doc's to write Rx's. Despite being admitted to the hospital for PTSD and opiate/benzo addiction, he left with rx's for 3 x 1mg k-pin, 3 x 1mg ativan, 2 x 150mg Lyrica and 2 x 40mg OC a day.
Since he had a good suppy of OC (albeit they were OP's), he knew well enough not to polydrug both at the same time bc of how high the dose of OC was, and because the more he took, the more he wanted more. So, it came down to him primarily using the OC, and the benzos just for when the PTSD kicked in. Now, at this point, and at every point throughout, withdrawls were never an issue. He was able to go 5 days on with 100+ mg a day, and then a weekend off without thinking twice (aside from wanting to feel stoned).
About a month after being hospitalized, some unfortunate events happened, and he started spinning down a little further in depression. Also, at work (he was a functional addict and able to work a 80k/yr job without anyone knowing the dark side), some bad shit come up that required him to leave town and family for a while. After about 3 days of being away from home, he decides to put his big brain to the problem of making OP OC into immediate release. He figures it out. He does it with 10 40mg OC. He begins consuming them in their current form with the intention of a 100mg dose, and, of course, the 100mg feels like nothing. He finished the 400mg dose. Needless to say, his friends get him to the hospital and he gets revived (which is an incrediblly odd feeling, so he says). Since he was rx'd the meds, the doc pretty much just shrugged it off and discharged him about an hour later. Guess what my friend does? You already know. Went back to his temporary accomodations, makes another batch of about 400 mg oxycodone, and despite the intention of only sipping it, down goes another 400 mg oxy. This time, though, it was accompanied by about 5 shots/beers. Low and behold, the same awesome friends who saved his ass the first time do it again. He got nalx'd twice in less than 12 hours, for taking 400mg on 2 seperate occassions!
This time the doctor realized that it wasn't just some strange allergy to the medication that was causing these effects. Rather, the allergy was every time you put an opiate in his hand he can't helpd but throw it down his throat. So, my friend was sent home, sent to an intsensive outpatient therapy, did pretty well for about a month, accidentally OD'd on ambien (unwittingly and without memory of doing so, he ate 20 ambien). I can say for certain that in this case, he really had no intention of doing it, but he later realized and read how ambien causes people to do wierd stuff. So, it seems that his pill-in-hand-must-swallow allergy was getting worse.
Fast forward to the present. It's been 2 years, and he was clean 100% for a year. After that, he wanted to test the waters, and found that he was actually able to use on an irregular basis without issues. He can use 3 nights one weekend, and not again fror 3 months without thinking twice. The biggest issue is always whethrer it is in his hands or not. As long as he makes an adamant point to avoid dealers he is good.
Now is his question:
Does having 2 heavy overdoses cause tolerance to NEVER go back down? All the standard potentiation practices are always used; grape juice, tagamet, benadryl, high fat meal have all been used individually and paired. I have read that those with experienced opiate use will gain tolerance more quickly, but never that even after letting tolerance drop for months, that it does not. He has found that he cannot get any kind of effect with anything short of at least 50mg oxy. Literally, 50 mg is his threshold for effects.That's after going a year with 100% abstinence, and only using about 5 times in the year since. Physically, my friend is in very good shape. Works out every day, runs, bikes, lifts. Not sure if that is a factor.
He recently found 6 roxi-30's which he hoped would last him months, only to discover that he only begins to feel the warmth after taking 60 mg. 3 roxi 30's feel like 3 vicodin did before he used. And again, this is with a gap in between usage that most claim to completely lose their tolerance from. So since 3 is the comfortable recreational dose, it really makes it not worth the ridiculous price for a 2 hour buzz (duration is also drasically shortened). He also want's to stick with roxi or his version of time-release-broken OC OP, since those are clean. He knows that H may be the only thing left to chase that high, but does not want to go down that road.
Thanks ya'll. I hope I posted this in the right spot. I really do hope the purpose for this post is in fact harm reduction, because my friend is becoming more and more curious about other options that are probably not the best.
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