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Permatrips...

What I know from expierence

Permatrip is slang for what the psychiatric community would refer to as HPPD Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder, one could also group people who suffer from shizophrenic spectrum disorders due in part to psychadelic use.

It varies for different people. Some people mearly continue to perceive the acid state of consciousness for months to years after even the first time they've used acid. This is generally considered more of a form of Post Traumatic Stress. As the intensity of the hallucinations some how manages to etch itself into the consciousness of the user.

For others and me personally LSD and similiar psychadelics can precipitate a pyschosis and alter reality for the user indefinately. In my case, I was victim to bad set and setting, and ignorance, as well as possible pre disposition to developing such a disorder.

I did not get any visual hallucinations. Rather for me I was brought to a higher state of awareness that i was not equipped to handle. Rather then having a guide to help sort me through realizations and guide me through metaprogramming and then bringing me back to reality when it was time to return. I instead did not realize that the new realities i began to perceive were due in part to the substance i ingested. The universe spoke to me, instructed me, I realized psychological dynamics of people i encountered, and because i was steeped in religious upbringing a messiah complex came over me in which i felt it was neccessary for me to perform very important tasks in order to help people. I knew these weird tasks would make me look crazy, but at the time they seemed so important i was willing to accept people would not understand why i was doing what i was doing.

Due to the set and setting of my trip. The psychadelic nature of the substance i took enhanced the part of me that was always present... a profound thinker with a desire to change things. Perhaps if i had tripped with a close friend, went outside and explored nature... such visual aspects and such relating to perception would have been altered instead of the way i think.

Psychadelics have the power to enhance greatly whatever the user is perceiving. If you are the type of person that thinks alot and is introverted... tripping by yourself without a guide will lead most likely lead to a very profound expierence indeed, but an expierence in which you may not be able to escape.

So speaking from expierence. If you intend to try psychadelics. Try them with someone you trust, who has expierence. Don't do it alone, and make sure you have at least a good weekend ahead of you to sort out the expierence afterwards.

HPPD is basically PTSD caused by bad trips. I think some people who just tripped way too much also develope HPPD, but probably more likely becuase of a gradual etching away at their consciousness as opposed to a PTSD HPPD induced by a traumatic bad trip in which the you relive the expierence based on the triggering of the fear itself.

There was and may still be a sect of buddhist monks that would practice meditation in a way that would cause them to hallucinate. Basically they would tap into there minds ability to process perceptional information. Then they were told when the hallucinations stop you are enlightened. The mind is capable of quite alot.

It seems to me that the sceince behind this would probably be that... people who are sensitive to substances are more likely to suffer. I think some people naturally have very sensitive neuro-chemistry... People who are gennerally more quite, deep thinkers, and more introverted... must take special care to meet all the proper criteria for good set and setting when going into a psychadelic expierence, or avoid them alltogether... Some of us are just deep to begin with and such substances probably arn't even neccessary for finding many of the deeper meanings and important expierences people seek to aquire through their use.


So the permatrip does exist. and if you don't respect the power of a compound that gives one the power to alter their consciousness and reach a higher state of awareness and perception... that awareness may not respect the mind that has come to it.

So if you must trip. Rule number 1- do it with someone who has done it before.. rule number 2 - make sure you trust this person, they arn't just some person you kinda know who can get shit... 3 - make sure you plan what you're going to do "what's the focus? what expierence are we wanting to enhance?", 4- make sure you have at least 2 days or more after the expierence to have time to sort it out. 5- make sure you won't have to worry about authority figures, (if your having to worry about parents interupting any part of the expierence you probably shuldn't even bother taking a psychadelic as this will not benefit you're psyche in any way.)

The permatrip isn't about the chemical staying in your body forever... it's about that level of consciousness's power to permanantly alter the psyche for better or worse. You are awakening a part of your brain that is reserved for sorting out your day when you sleep and giving it free rain or whatever expierence you choose to feed it. Kinda like a computer really. So if you decide to delete certain files or write a new program that can't be erased during the process, your going to have to live with that afterwords, and hope you can integrate it successfully into your life...

Hopefully that answers some questions.
 
this is some really interesting shit these are the types of things i was wondering about. as in what really happens in the brain to induce these "permatrips". after reading up on these different situations it really opens up your mind to the possiblilities and endless things that can happen to a person because off taking drugs

Or just in general life. The way we perceive the "real" world in sobriety is a lot more up in the air than a lot of people care to realize. Any traumatic event can cause someone to break.
 
AFAIK (please someone link me to a credible source if I'm wrong here), there's no known mechanism for any kind of physiological damage like the OP describes in terms of permanently altering the brain's neurochemistry in dramatic ways that cause the effects.

IMHO, virtually all such cases that do not involve a latent physiological disorder that had simply not yet manifested symptoms are psychological in nature. These accounts seem to support that belief -the reactions I'm reading about here, especially isotopic_parody's work-related knowledge, sound pretty consistent with severe neurosis or even reoccurring psychosis due to severe trauma. I imagine a powerful psychedelic freakout of such magnitude is among the most difficult sorts of trauma to work through without or possibly even with professional help - a common issue in psychoanalysis is getting the patient to remember repressed material and put it into words, which would be uniquely difficult with an experience that, even on a good day, is difficult to put into words at all.
 
I will simply say this... with the classical plant psychedelics which have been studied by professional scientist being used by indigenous cultures such as Richard Evan Shultes study on Peyote using Tribes there has been no indications of "permatrips", this is partially because the drugs are culturally sanctioned and the participant is conditioned to expect and assimilate the psychedelic effects and after effects his entire life.

I tend to agree with Solistus's above post that most of these cases are due to other underlying mental illnesses or they are simply psychological issues, or of course mild HPPD
 
^ It's a good question: Has a "permatrip" ever happened on a natural psychedelic like shrooms, mescaline, LSA seeds, etc?
 
Natural psychedelics can certainly trigger latent mental issues the same as LSD - mushrooms and LSA for certain, at least. If I recall correctly, mescaline seemed to have a muted effect overall in at least one study on schizophrenics. However, there was a related compound that was all but inactive in most people but behaved as they expected mescaline to in schizophrenics! I wish I could find a link.

At any rate, it wouldn't surprise me if these sorts of things at least express themselves differently and/or MUCH less often in indigenous cultures, perhaps even to the point of no record of the phenomenon existing in cultural knowledge. Set and setting matter a lot, psychological disorders are massively on the rise in our modern, alienating society, and the drugs themselves are so demonised and illegalised that there are additional factors of negative social conditioning and paranoia regarding legal risks that add even more factors to increase the chances of issue. I bet there were rare issues that just didn't get recorded or perhaps recognised as drug-related by at least most indigenous groups but I have no problem believing it is much less common, perhaps to the point that it would be difficult to find anyone living or even any record in many of these communities of any such thing happening. I imagine there are some chemical imbalances that make it more or less inevitable for a psychedelic to cause a severe bad episode and maybe even permanent changes, but maybe not.
 
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However, there was a related compound that was all but inactive in most people but behaved as they expected mescaline to in schizophrenics! I wish I could find a link.

I'd love to have a read of that if you can find it. :)
 
I have not taken LSD for over ten years, I have used LSA in the last 6 years and mushrooms in the last year. But when i was using it (for several years) i would frequently do it every week , sometimes more then once a week and always taking multiple hits. Now more than a decade later I still see things melting sometimes or things shifting around. Colors are always very pronounced and bright and white is not so much white but a combination of faint pastels to make up white like seeing an oil slick with all the rainbowed colors on the surface. When I am under florescent lights everything looks grimey. When i get tired i will frequently see tracers and halos around lights. My thought process is always very abstract and at times i will get anxiety and be stuck in thought loops. Communicating with people on a social level is often difficult as i stutter and stammer over words and thoughts in my mind. Really I am only social when I am on opiates, benzos or weed. Could it be possible that I caused myself HPPD?
 
After dropping good lucy on a 2ce/2cd/mdma/meth/ket comedown a permanent trip/psychotic /paranoid state emerged for weeks thereafter with incessant thought-loops, agitation, agression and all the rest, only to be ceased by a good smoko of pure clearlovelight changa (got a bit of a well-deserved tentacle-instrument waggling/chiding from an entity during that journey). Depression remains but the permatrip state has ended, thank Christ/Buddha/Krsna/the rest.

It can and does happen folk.

This being said, I do have underlying psychological issues and there were many issues surfacing during the trip, many lessons learned and many disregarded. Live learn and love is what I am trying to glean from it all.

Edit: Maybe wasn't so much a permatrip, more like extendotrip. :/
 
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I only noted the absence of "permatrip" like effects in Peyote, which has been extensively studied, tho it likely extends to Ayahuasca and other entheogens.

Check out the study done by the famous Richard Evan Shultes.

This is one reason why drugs with a REALLY long history are good... so that it can be noted if problems like "permatrips" arise.

At any rate, it wouldn't surprise me if these sorts of things at least express themselves differently and/or MUCH less often in indigenous cultures, perhaps even to the point of no record of the phenomenon existing in cultural knowledge. Set and setting matter a lot, psychological disorders are massively on the rise in our modern, alienating society, and the drugs themselves are so demonised and illegalised that there are additional factors of negative social conditioning and paranoia regarding legal risks that add even more factors to increase the chances of issue. I bet there were rare issues that just didn't get recorded or perhaps recognised as drug-related by at least most indigenous groups but I have no problem believing it is much less common, perhaps to the point that it would be difficult to find anyone living or even any record in many of these communities of any such thing happening. I imagine there are some chemical imbalances that make it more or less inevitable for a psychedelic to cause a severe bad episode and maybe even permanent changes, but maybe not.

yup. yup. good observation.
 
Happy first post, OffThe_BeatenPath! That was a solid post, I hope you post here more often post

EDIT: How did my post, in response to OffThe_BeatenPath's post, get put a post BEFORE his post?
 
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The universe spoke to me, instructed me, I realized psychological dynamics of people i encountered...
The permatrip isn't about the chemical staying in your body forever... it's about that level of consciousness's power to permanantly alter the psyche for better or worse.
Thank you Monolith for apprehending a tricky experience so lucidly :D

It is important to remember that most chemicals don't do anything your brain can't already do by itself. This goes for inducing insanity as well as curing it. Tim Leary got it right when he said that LSD is only a key to a door. %)

I was hospitalized two weeks after an LSD experience in college. I was given antipsychotic drugs and suppressed but not cured. Psychoanalysis is what people need, it is just not as easy and cheap to administer as pills. :p

Psychonauts, don't let medical professionals (including psychiatrists) convince you they know more about drugs and consciousness than us because most do not. They meet you, flaunt their authority, and then twenty minutes later are prescribing a chemical lobotomy. Socrates is rolling over in his grave. :|
 
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Malta is small, so everyone finds out about everything here.

A guy, quite a while ago became "permatripped", he's now in the only mental hospital and when the sun is out he stands in a pot saying "I'M A SUNFLOWER, WATER ME" and if noone waters him he falls on the ground and starts shivering saying "help me, i'm wilting!!!"
 
A guy, quite a while ago became "permatripped", he's now in the only mental hospital and when the sun is out he stands in a pot saying "I'M A SUNFLOWER, WATER ME" and if noone waters him he falls on the ground and starts shivering saying "help me, i'm wilting!!!"

Do you know this for a fact or did you hear it from a friend of a friend?
 
I think, well actually I know, I'm permatripped, but it's absolutely wonderful. I don't know how this could be a bad thing at all. How beautiful can life get?

The guy in the hospital talking to a flower-pot and stuff, this is obviously an average joe mental-illness case. They probabl;y have him up to eyeballs on anti-psychotics anyhow, which have almost similar effects.
 
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