Benzos Permanent benzo tolerance?

[Captain.Heroin]

In your country maybe. In mine, no.

Your location tag is deceiving!

Why can't you choose what manufacturer you want in France? That's fucking retarded.

I know you didn't make up France's RX rules, I'm just wondering, does the doctor write the manufacturer on the prescription, or do they just have 1 manufacturer for each type of drug?

BTW

If you can get midazolam and loprazolam, you're lucky and shouldn't worry about manufacturers. In the US we don't have imidazos for RX sadly.

 

[DexterMeth]

There is no such thing as permenant tolerance to any drug, accept to an extent (I don't want to get into it) psychedelics, which is a whole different field.

People need to realize that benzodiazepines can effect tolerance easily up to a couple years, or possibly more, but imo the real discernable effects are in the first month or TWO after stopping use. I like to equate them more to cannabis because of how long they stay around like THC, but they actually store around far longer..perhaps I should be compairing THC to them. When you start to exercise, or exert a bunch of energy all the time, like a more common sex-life, a new job entailing physical labor, etc..you will definately start to notice the effect of recent past (in the last year or so) benzo use comming out, and usually in an annoying/negative way. If it's been 2 months or more though, surely nothing you can't deal with, I mostly mention it because of any negligable tolerance issues.

 

[dimethyltrypt]

There is no such thing as permenant tolerance to any drug, accept to an extent (I don't want to get into it) psychedelics, which is a whole different field.

People need to realize that benzodiazepines can effect tolerance easily up to a couple years, or possibly more, but imo the real discernable effects are in the first month or TWO after stopping use. I like to equate them more to cannabis because of how long they stay around like THC, but they actually store around far longer..perhaps I should be compairing THC to them. When you start to exercise, or exert a bunch of energy all the time, like a more common sex-life, a new job entailing physical labor, etc..you will definately start to notice the effect of recent past (in the last year or so) benzo use comming out, and usually in an annoying/negative way. If it's been 2 months or more though, surely nothing you can't deal with, I mostly mention it because of any negligable tolerance issues.

OP again. In regards to the psychedelic tolerance, I feel you completely on that. But thats not for that thread. I like to think of psychedelics as a tool to unlock a certain state of mind: to see truth and realize a reality that should then be sought out through years upon years of careful self examination; but I digress.

In regards to everyone talking about benzo WD's, yeah that shit almost killed me twice.

The situation I'm in now is I've been off of benzos for six months, took the aforementioned cocktail, and didnt feel at all euphoric, fuzzy, or much of anything. I'm not worrying about WD'ing after a night of taking benzos, I am worried that I will never be able to feel the recreational effect I used to feel from them.

Another aside, the Mylan C 15 2mg clonapin may as well be a sugar pill. Definitly have noticed that. But still I'd like a solid answer from someone who has had a similar experience. To the mod who put in his two cents, with a simple yes, that helped. I'd appreciate a more elaborate answer.

I've been on/abusing benzos for 3 years, off for six months as I mentioned before, and can still report that two xanax bars will lessen anxiety when I feel it coming on. At least I can still use them as medically indicated, albeit at a much higher dose.

 

[swilow]

There is no such thing as permenant tolerance to any drug, accept to an extent (I don't want to get into it) psychedelics, which is a whole different field.

People need to realize that benzodiazepines can effect tolerance easily up to a couple years, or possibly more, but imo the real discernable effects are in the first month or TWO after stopping use. I like to equate them more to cannabis because of how long they stay around like THC, but they actually store around far longer..perhaps I should be compairing THC to them. When you start to exercise, or exert a bunch of energy all the time, like a more common sex-life, a new job entailing physical labor, etc..you will definately start to notice the effect of recent past (in the last year or so) benzo use comming out, and usually in an annoying/negative way. If it's been 2 months or more though, surely nothing you can't deal with, I mostly mention it because of any negligable tolerance issues.

Not all benzo'sstay in the body for that long; diazepam an clonazepam have the longest half-lives (an with diazepam you also have active long-lasting metabolites like desmethyldiazepam); if the benzo is lipid soluble, it will stay in the body for a longish time.

The main tolerance issue would be permanent downregulation of GABA receptors, which certainly can happen.

 

[burn out]

There is no such thing as permenant tolerance to any drug, accept to an extent (I don't want to get into it) psychedelics, which is a whole different field.

People need to realize that benzodiazepines can effect tolerance easily up to a couple years, or possibly more, but imo the real discernable effects are in the first month or TWO after stopping use. I like to equate them more to cannabis because of how long they stay around like THC, but they actually store around far longer..perhaps I should be compairing THC to them. When you start to exercise, or exert a bunch of energy all the time, like a more common sex-life, a new job entailing physical labor, etc..you will definately start to notice the effect of recent past (in the last year or so) benzo use comming out, and usually in an annoying/negative way. If it's been 2 months or more though, surely nothing you can't deal with, I mostly mention it because of any negligable tolerance issues.

what evidence do you have to back this up? i'm inclined to disagree, i think their is permanent tolerance to drugs and not just psychedelics.

 

[debaser]

Your location tag is deceiving!

Why can't you choose what manufacturer you want in France? That's fucking retarded.

I know you didn't make up France's RX rules, I'm just wondering, does the doctor write the manufacturer on the prescription, or do they just have 1 manufacturer for each type of drug?

BTW

If you can get midazolam and loprazolam, you're lucky and shouldn't worry about manufacturers. In the US we don't have imidazos for RX sadly.

Well, to answer precisely: if the doctor writes for a generic, let's say for instance alprazolam. You definitely cannot take the brand Xanax.
However, each pharmacy carries its own generic of alpraz, so if you go to your habitual pharmacy and they have Mylan alpraz, if you want Teva alpraz, you'll have to politely say no to the pharmacist who knows you and likes you (to the extent of declining his/her offer) and change pharmacy (temporarly of course).
That's not a problem because in France there are more pharmacies than bars, and that means there are at least two pharmacies in each big street.
Now if the other pharmacy carries Mylan alpraz too, you'll have to politely say no again, and search for a pharmacy which carries your beloved generic

As for loprazolam, yes we do have it, but midazolam is only found in hospitals and ERs

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Another aside, the Mylan C 15 2mg clonapin may as well be a sugar pill. Definitly have noticed that. But still I'd like a solid answer from someone who has had a similar experience. To the mod who put in his two cents, with a simple yes, that helped. I'd appreciate a more elaborate answer.

I've been on/abusing benzos for 3 years, off for six months as I mentioned before, and can still report that two xanax bars will lessen anxiety when I feel it coming on. At least I can still use them as medically indicated, albeit at a much higher dose.

You've been using/abusing benzos for 3 years, this explains why clonazepam does not effect you.

BTW, for those interested in knowing how benzo tolerance develops (I have 5 minutes to spare, so why not share....):

The GABA-A receptor is an ion channel which has an orthosteric site which binds GABA and a number of allosteric sites. When GABA binds to the orthosteric site the channel opens briefly allowing an influx of Cl- ions into the neuron causing hyperpolarisation (inhibition of neuronal firing). Allosteric sites bind modulators such as benzos which potentiates the channel-opening effect of GABA.

The ion channel consists of 5 subunits (pentameric); 2 alpha subunits, 2 beta subunits and a gamma subunit. The benzo allosteric site is at the alpha-gamma subunit interface, and it is here that benzos stick to the complex and in doing so, change the shape of the GABA-A receptor enough so that it is now more efficient at allowing Cl- influx, but only when endogenous GABA binds to the orthosteric site. What this means is that on their own, benzos have no effect; they need the endogenous GABA to have their effect (this is what makes benzos so safe on their own).

Benzo tolerance probably arises when the neuron attempts to counteract the benzos action by changing the protein subunits that make up the GABA-A ion channel. When there is no longer an alpha and a gamma subunit next to each other, the benzo allosteric site no longer exists. This explains why there is incomplete cross tolerance between barbs, z-drugs (like zolpidem), and benzos.

Class dismissed!

---

.

Not all benzo'sstay in the body for that long; diazepam an clonazepam have the longest half-lives (an with diazepam you also have active long-lasting metabolites like desmethyldiazepam); if the benzo is lipid soluble, it will stay in the body for a longish time.

The main tolerance issue would be permanent downregulation of GABA receptors, which certainly can happen.

Actually swilow, I think flurazepam has the longest half life.

Well, to answer precisely: if the doctor writes for a generic, let's say for instance alprazolam. You definitely cannot take the brand Xanax.
However, each pharmacy carries its own generic of alpraz, so if you go to your habitual pharmacy and they have Mylan alpraz, if you want Teva alpraz, you'll have to politely say no to the pharmacist who knows you and likes you (to the extent of declining his/her offer) and change pharmacy (temporarly of course).
That's not a problem because in France there are more pharmacies than bars, and that means there are at least two pharmacies in each big street.
Now if the other pharmacy carries Mylan alpraz too, you'll have to politely say no again, and search for a pharmacy which carries your beloved generic

As for loprazolam, yes we do have it, but midazolam is only found in hospitals and ERs

I see, it is really interesting to know how this works in other countries. Thanks for the info!

You have loprazolam for RX but not midazolam? Interesting.

 

[Peculiarself]

I know this is an old thread but I thought id share my experience with benzos since i have been on them since i have been 13 years old. During the beginning of my treatment with benzos i found extreme relief from my anxiety with just say .5 or 1 mg of alprazolam. Through out the years the dosage has increased and i am currently at 2 mg's to be taken twice daily. I think any smart doctor should know how short the half life of xanx is and how it just doesn't work at all after a while and in fact produced more negative side affects than positive. Anyways, that's a different story. But to give my opinion if the tollerance issue is permant i wouldnt say so, pscycidelics can be a bit different but i am coming to learn that to finally get back the feeling you want from benzos can require a 2 month break. I take a 2 week break and a friend will come by with free xanax and i'll be able to eat 6 mg's and feel whats like .5 of a mg. I dunno if people are different or if i have just been on them to long. To be honest im on 20 mg of k pins and i dont really feel much at all and its been 4 days since my last 2 mg bar of xanx. Well i know this is an old thread but i hope this helps someone. O by the way in the United Kingdom it is illegal to prescribe any benzo for more than 12 weeks at a time. Goes to show... good luck. and yea i know i am a newb on here.

 

[Inrvizion]

let me get this straight....you took 210 mg of temazepam, 10 mg of alprazolam, and 16 mg of clonazepam......and u *only* felt slightly tired????

i don't care how tolerant u are, those doses of 3 pretty strong benzos is going fuck anybody up in a bad way.
that's just crazy man.

I have crazy wicked bad stupid doo doo dum benzo tolerance and 5 bars and 8 pins even without the temazepam is gonna fuckin' put me to bed, maybe on a park bench, but definitely to bed. You might want to go see a doctor if that many benzos literall only makes you feel a "little tired." I took 20 mg of clonazepam in 24 hours and it has a ceiling of like 15 or 16 mg but when I got off the plane to get picked up for rehab in Palm Springs they had a sign with my name and I remember the guy saying that I sounded like a 45 being played on 78 (I hope that Vinyl analogy makes sense to sommmmmmewwwwwwwwonnnnnn."

 

[opiatekrzy]

i believe you do develop a permanent tolerance to SOME DEGREE with benzos, for example: when i first did benzos, i remember a 10mg valium blacked me out, and ended up acting a fool, same with xanax, i blacked out and did a lot of stupid shit, over the years i developed a 10-15 xanax bar a day habit, just to feel normal, i remember going to jail for 3 years, and even when i got out of jail, i took a valium 10mg, and didnt black out, just felt relief, same with xanax..so i believe there is some permanent tolerance to some degree.....

 

[.:Holy::Toast:.]

You can build up permanent tolerance to any drug after you use it long enough.
I'm not sure if this is actually a permanent tolerance or simply getting used to the effects.

 

[twato]

I think it's really different between people, just like the varied reactions we have to each sort of benzo and the natural tolerance some are afflicted with. I'm also one of the latter, 100mg diazepam just make me begin to feel effects (and I just abuse benzos every few weeks, no bodily dependance yet), while most of the people I know easily float off on 20mg.
Same goes for benzo tolerance in my experience, for some it goes down within a month or two, others retain the same level for years.

Hopefully I'll never use daily and raise my tolerance, because even without that and a month's pause between dosing, I still have to take nearly the amount OP stated to get a decent high (just with diazepam instead of temazepam, the latter is extremely hard to find here), which is not bragging, rather the opposite.

Drug tolerance is completely individual in my opinion and, for HR's sake, and should always be considered bearing this in mind.
If someone else took my MXE "hyperspace" dose, they'd propably end up insane or completely fucked for days.

 

[dopemaster]

This thread interests me.

First off Ive had life long panic attacks and get 6 mgs of klonopin a day rx'd. Ive been medically advised to stay on for my life. I personally used to vomit and pass out from anxiety and klonopin changed my life. I had a traumatic childhood which Ive put behind me but the panic attacks remained. I used to be embarrassed and nervous that I was embarrassed or nervous. I also wasn't paranoid as I really had problems. My life is fine now but the disorder remains

So my tolerance is ridiculous. Ive taken to supplementing with other benzos to get along better socially. Ive never managed to get high off benzos and don't plan too. I just get really relaxed at most. Ive never blacked out on them like so many people do.

I don't want to post my doses but they are along the lines of the OP. Im pretty fond of klonopin as the one Im prescribed and can get by with just my script. But I find it much more pleasant to take more benzos. I enjoy Xanax the most but have been getting fond of the sleeping benzos like temazepam and even like ambien and take it during the day.

Dalmane, Temazepam, Flurazepam, Xanax, Ativan, and Klonopin are the ones I use the most.

Im kinda intersed in that one that people order from Russia buy Ive never seen it or taken it. I know its a bit weaker but I wonder if it has potential.

Im dying to know if there is anything I could take that would make the benzos more effective so I wouldn't take as much. Its not a big issue as its not breaking the bank and really I get more stuff done with benzos than without.

I just had my doctor legally section me so I cannot be taken off benzos under any circumstance and had my dose locked in at a minimum of 6mgs. I actually just work with a regular physician but Im blessed with a good ethical doctor and he was rather reluctant at first to take over but after looking thru my file and seeing the bs I had to put up with he decided it was best to just classify me as a seizure risk and therefore lock in a higher dose of benzos. Im pretty sure if I was to be incarcerated Id be given my benzo scrip. I need to get a medical bracelet.

Ive always hated dealing with shrinks and they try to give me all this crap off label for anxiety like antidepressants and antipsychotics despite my lack of depression or psychosis. I hate the way those meds make me feel. Anti depressants make me agitated and anti-physchotics make me fat and stupid.

 

[opiatekrzy]

i fucking hate dealing with pyshciatrists when it comes to getting on benzos, or even continuing to go back on it when i had a previous doctor, they always throw SSRI's, or ANY ALTERNATIVE they can think of, even when they know i have a 15yr history of mental health, i have tried it all, from SSRI, SNRI's, mood stabilizers, etc...i told my new shrink i just saw STR8, is said look "i tried everything over the past 15yrs, the only medications that work for me and keep me feeling myself is Klonopin and Adderall, yes i know adderall is bad to take when i already have anxiety, but the klonopin decreases my chances for panic attacks making the adderall workable, and oddly the adderall helps with my anxiety at the same time" i even threw in there that i tried xanax, and didnt like it, just to show them im not seeking whatever i can get, so hopefully july 3rd this lady "nurse practicioner of psychiatry" listens to me. the damn clinic i go to, is notorious for giving all the methadone clinic patients benzos, so i dont see why i wouldnt make it, im on suboxone, i told them str8 up, and i told them i still take kpin (i been taking my old script as needed, until i find a doctor to continue it) so whatever, sorry for rambling, i get PISSED when doctors push SSRis or anything they can think of on you, literally my body is TOO sensitive to inhibitors, and no this is not my addiciton talking, i get very depressed on inhibitors, and the side effects are horrible, it seems Family doctors (GPs) are the only physicians that have sympathy and write RXs for me that i tell them work for me, while shrinks dig into ur history, and give u what THEY FEEL WILL WORK FOR U. thats why i mainly only go to primary care doctors, they seem to not give me any issues, i explain i used to be on kpin, they ask what MG, and give me what i said , same with adderall i told them my MG i used to be on, 10mins later i get 2 scripts for kpin and addys, and MG i told them i used to be on...

 

[dopemaster]

If I get a scrip for something I don't want I just don't fill it. I personally don't want it in my file though because it will say you have been on that medicine.

 

[opiatekrzy]

i dont fill scripts either if they give me it and i take no interest, i just plain and simple tell a new doctor what i was on, and be completely str8 up with them, i usually earn there respect and get the meds, but i always get toxed and fucked myself

 

[Blind Melon]

When I first started with benzos I would use about .75mg of alprazolam to completely kill my anxiety. 2mg of clonazepam was bliss (I suffered, and still do, from extreme anxiety).

Then I used Ativan to help me detox from 195mg/day Methadone. I was taking 20mg+ a day of Ativan, to help numb the Opiate WD pain. My tolerance has never gone back to normal, even after multiple month breaks.

I now find alprazolam useless now. The dose it takes to calm me down completely kills my memory for the whole day.

Valium and Kpins still work, but I have to take an obscene amount.

 

[gr33n3y3z]

Hell I was started out with Xanax - 50 pills .5 mg and the moved on to 150 pills 1mg. I can take up to 15 + mgs a day
(n still have no effect.) Oh god how the tolerance builds.

 

[morphonorconic]

For someone with dmt as their screen name you don't seem to have much foresight or clarirvoyant awareness. Seriously, deploy some common sense.

I've abused benzos before too, and in high doses, albeit nowhere near where you're at. I'm not trying to be a cynical dick here. I just hate seeing anyone go down this road. Seek help before you have to find out the hard way why what you're doing is extremely dangerous and detrimental to your health/well being.

EDIT: Shit this is old. Guess I'm the one lacking awareness... But still people, don't abuse benzos!

 

[opiatekrzy]

ativan is a horrible benzo IMO, this doctor gave me it, knowing i have a 10yr history of being RXed klonopin and xanax on and off, and he insists ativan is superior, because it ha a much shorter half life than xanax, so it will do its job, kill the panic attack, and not leave me sedated for hours (like xanax and klonpin he claims) the jerk gives me 0.5mg once a day for panic, after reading my file seeing i was on klonopin 4mg daily, and xanax 1mg 3x...true the ativan kicks in fast and wears off as fast as it kicks in, but it sure as hell doesnt help with my anxiety..what a jerk for telling me anything else will leave me loopy for hours..