People who don't do drugs are missing out

[alasdairm]

Just because they think they are not missing out, this is not necessarily true in an absolute sense.

you're a little late to the discussion and we're starting to go round in circles now. i can obviously only speak for myself but i think we're all now broadly in agreement that people who don't do 'drug y' are 'missing out' on 'drug y' in a quantitative sense - an absolute sense if you will.

i'm going to take this in a slightly different direction now. i'd appreciate sincere answers from those in the thread who championed the idea that the non drug users are missing out (in the wider, qualitative sense): garuda; wintermute; darkcode; my higher self; jimboach; qwe; etc.

have you tried everything? if not, why not?

have you swum in the amazon while high on dmt?
have you performed oral sex on somebody of the same sex?
have you got a tattoo on your back?
have you listened to all the beatle's albums in succession, in a dark room, on ketamine with all the lights off?
have you cycled at top speed across the desert with your eyes closed?
have you walked naked down the main street in your town?
have you skydived strapped to a dwarf?
have you swum with dolphins?
have you learned to speak italian?
have you been to the concert of a band you thought you hated?

if not, why not?

there's a definite theme in the posts of those i named above that not doing drugs is a 'bad' thing because the user misses out on a rich - and positive - learning experience.

further, there's an implication that it's our duty to have these experiences in the interests of widening our horizons. to be the best that we can be, we are required to try these things because, if we don't we're mindless automatons who deserve pity.

is the above list any different? if so, why? if not, why not?

you are missing out on all of these wonderful experiences - does that make you all hypocrites? should we feel sorry for you?

alasdair

 

[garuda]

there's a definite theme in the posts of those i named above that not doing drugs is a 'bad' thing because the user misses out on a rich - and positive - learning experience.

further, there's an implication that it's our duty to have these experiences in the interests of widening our horizons. to be the best that we can be, we are required to try these things because, if we don't we're mindless automatons who deserve pity.

is the above list any different? if so, why? if not, why not?

you are missing out on all of these wonderful experiences - does that make you all hypocrites? should we feel sorry for you?

alasdair

A real shadow boxing champion here, you're creating all these opinions I'm supposed to have expressed in your mind and are now taking me to task for them. I specifically said I respect someone's decision not to use drugs, thats their choice not mine. I do feel they are missing out on a potentially amazing experience, and the flat fact is they are missing out on the experience of the drug good or bad.

Where did I EVER say I felt that non-drug users are small minded provincial automatons who deserve pity? You pulled this rich steaming pile of bullshit out of your ass. Where did I ever say its anyone's duty to try drugs?

The most I ever said was it is a shame not to try something because of irrational fears.

I never said I'm superior to someone who doesn't do drugs, or any other experience for that matter.

You list is pretty good, if you can provide the midget I'm there :D

 

[alasdairm]

I specifically said I respect someone's decision not to use drugs, thats their choice not mine.

indeed. i saw that.

...and the flat fact is they are missing out on the experience of the drug good or bad.

we agree on this.

Where did I EVER say I felt that non-drug users are small minded provincial automatons who deserve pity?

you didn't - others in the list of names said, or implied, it. calm down, the post wasn't aimed only at you.

I do feel they are missing out on a potentially amazing experience...

right. you are missing out on a number of potentially amazing experiences too. so why even mention it?

i'm trying to understand why it's noteworthy given that all of us are missing out on millions of potentially amazing experiences every day?

alasdair

 

[garuda]

i'm trying to understand why it's noteworthy given that all of us are missing out on millions of potentially amazing experiences every day?

alasdair

The fact that most of those millions of possibilities will never come to fruition is all the more reason to seize the chances you can, swimming in the Amazon or climbing Everest require great effort and capital which most people don't have.
Drugs by comparison are cheap and easy to acquire, and the investment in time is low as well.

Maybe this comes down to personal differences, I don't want to have one regret on my death bed. I don't want to have to wonder if I missed something that intriqued me, all because of irrational fears or doubts.

Someone else may have zero interest in drugs, thats cool. But whatever they are interested in or love I would tell them to seize it, not to let it become a regret.

 

[fizzle]

have you swum in the amazon while high on dmt?
have you performed oral sex on somebody of the same sex?
have you got a tattoo on your back?
have you listened to all the beatle's albums in succession, in a dark room, on ketamine with all the lights off?
have you cycled at top speed across the desert with your eyes closed?
have you walked naked down the main street in your town?
have you skydived strapped to a dwarf?
have you swum with dolphins?
have you learned to speak italian?
have you been to the concert of a band you thought you hated?

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=311677

*Adds ali's list to things I must do*

 

[alasdairm]

^ i've only done one of those things

Maybe this comes down to personal differences, I don't want to have one regret on my death bed...

to me, there's no maybe about it. it definitely comes down to personal differences.

what bemuses me is that some people (before you jump, maybe not necessarily you) are critical of others simply for choosing not to do something they choose to do. further, there's a definite implication that these people somehow should be criticised for not realising their full potential by people who, by another measure, are guilty of the same.

so people who don't do drugs are missing out. sure they are. so what?

alasdair

 

[alasdairm]

interestingly (and purely an aside), there is a dc thread right now entitled Have drugs enhanced your life?.

twice as many people in that thread say they have not (enhanced their life) than have.

this proves nothing but it does place some of the comments from earlier in this thread in a different context.

alasdair

 

[bowdenta]

have you tried everything? if not, why not?

have you swum in the amazon while high on dmt?
have you performed oral sex on somebody of the same sex?
have you got a tattoo on your back?
have you listened to all the beatle's albums in succession, in a dark room, on ketamine with all the lights off?
have you cycled at top speed across the desert with your eyes closed?
have you walked naked down the main street in your town?
have you skydived strapped to a dwarf?
have you swum with dolphins?
have you learned to speak italian?
have you been to the concert of a band you thought you hated?

if not, why not?

but how many of these things would people say "well im proud that Ive never done that and Im a better person for not having done it?"

interestingly (and purely an aside), there is a dc thread right now entitled Have drugs enhanced your life?.

twice as many people in that thread say they have not (enhanced their life) than have.

this proves nothing but it does place some of the comments from earlier in this thread in a different context.

alasdair

the argument i think has been estabished that what happens with one user wont happen with another

i think everyone who said no in that thread did so because they developed a habit

 

[alasdairm]

but how many of these things would people say "well im proud that Ive never done that and Im a better person for not having done it?"

i don't know.

i think everyone who said no in that thread did so because they developed a habit

which is one reason - of many possible reasons - that somebody who is 'missing out' on drugs feels they're not missing out...



alasdair

 

[TheDrizzle]

purplefirefly and alasdairm have provided excellent examples of why they feel the way they do.... i am hard pressed to say that of others in this discussion. furthermore, i am very suprised to see how close minded certain individuals have been throughout the entire discussion.

that being said, while I was a non-drug user that is before I started using drugs I have had numerous experiences that I would rate in my life as meaningful and profound and life changing (i.e. surviving a 70 car pile-up, reading Be Here Now, numerous outdoor travels many will never experience) I have ALSO while being a drug user, experienced numerous experiences that I would rate the same as the experiences above (many ++++ psychedelic experiences.) I wouldn't live my life the way I do without those experiences both drug induced and not.

It would be rediculous for me to say that someone who has not used drugs is missing out on something because as has been pointed out your experience is soley based on you and is entirely relative to the situation as we all know. I would also say that some non-drug user telling me that I am missing out on climbing K-2, and that that experience he had reaching the peak of the mountain was more meaningful than me talking to God while tripping on LSD, is rediculous. I could have died trying to reach the peak of K-2 just as he could have had the worst trip of his life when I gave him some LSD.

It is not right nor logical to say that you have had more profound experiences due to your drug-use, just like it is not right nor logical to say that because you have done something in your life (non-drug related) you feel your life has more meaning. The only thing one can say is someone who hasn't used drugs hasn't used them. It would be up for them to tell you that they missed out since it is only they who would know if the experience they had was infact meaningful or profound or even worth missing out on, since you didn't experience it..... they did.

This very well may not make any sense since I am very very very stoned, and if it didn't you're missing out .

or are you since you didn't even get it?

 

[DragonFly31]

I plan on trying out as many wonderful things as I can during my life.

The question is, how do I know they are 'wonderful' (in all senses that can mean), if I haven't tried them?

Will I try all the things alasdairm has suggested? Doubtful - because I usually am selective about the things I want to try.

How do I select the things I have in my to-do list? I mostly take other people's opinions. Here it is important to note that this isn't only good things, it can be bad experiences as well.

I am also willing to do things that people have told me have been shit for them, and accept the fact that it might be the same for me too - bad experiences also have positives.

However, even if I am open minded about the things I decide I want to do or experiences worth doing, I would still indisputably miss out on something in an absolute sense. But this is not the issue here; the issue is more specific, it is the use of drugs.

I allow myself to tell some people they are missing out on them because if I was told of someone's experience on drugs, be it heroin, LSD, or weed, they would make me curious enough to want to try it myself; ie. if I had never taken drugs and heard of the drugs culture, it would precipitate me into wanting to take them.

I suppose I am also bearing another judgment on that person, if I'm telling him he's missing out on drugs, and that is that he would in some way experience the same things I have. I'm comfortable with that - because most people actually would have experiences similar to mine.