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People first, God second. Should people put themselves above God?

Gnostic Bishop

Gnostic Bishop

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People first, God second. Should people put themselves aboveGod?

Jesus put people above God and so should we. “Mark 2;27 Andhe said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath: 28Therefore,the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

I think that the world would be a better place if people puttheir wants and needs as well as the wants and needs of other people aboveGod’s.

I look at all the wealth that religions squander onthemselves with huge churches and mosques, which are mostly empty, --- whilemany people still live in poverty and despair, --- and wonder if that wealthwould be better spent on the poor. That would conform more to what Jesus taughtus to do for the poor.

Governments seem to be of the same mindset as the religionsas they spend lavishly on themselves while the poor go with their needsignored.

I would think that religions would show the better mindsetbut that does not seem to be the case.

Before religions started thinking of God as a literal andreal being, a more peaceful world, religiously speaking, home churches were theorder of the day. Archeology has proven this. They were used as feedingstations for the poor and destitute and contributed more to the fellowship thatpeople need more that the mega churches, temples and mosques that we havetoday.

Should we consider the benefits of the older ways and bringreligion back into the homes where it’s expression and help for the poor can bebetter served?

Seems to me that the religious crave a personal relationshipwith their God, and that is best expressed from homes and not from the self-aggrandizingmega monstrosities and opulent churches and mosques that advertise their wastedwealth in our cities.

Does charity really begin at home, by putting people firstand not God?

Regards
DL
 
Are you associated with some kind of political organisation, GB? Just everything you write reads like propaganda.
 
It's a good question, but it might not be better to praise the old ways too much. Europe spent the better part of 1000 years in dire feudalism. It wasn't until the Black Death that serfs had more bargaining power, since there were so few of them left!

Our society has to continue developing its moral and intellectual compassion before we can make the transition to a world where God is integrated into everything that humans do, through inner inquiry. It doesn't have to be one or the other, it's both really. But if you choose one, you create imbalance. If God comes first then people are subjugating their human, material level experience to something beyond themselves, which means less accountability. If people come first, then humans become the supreme authority and that kind of hubris would currently lead to psychopathic leadership. We saw it in the Divine Right of Kings and we see it in modern humans who think their view of God is the only correct one because they thought of it first.

It has to be both because humanity has a spiritual core as well as a practical, material one. We should definitely transition away from the idea of God as being a supreme, separate being, instead of being part of each and every one of us.
 
Ninae said:
Are you associated with some kind of political organisation, GB? Just everything you write reads like propaganda.
Click to expand...

No. The only affiliation I claim is that of being a Gnostic Christian. We are esoteric ecumenists and allow ourselves to criticize any and all ideologies, be they religious or political.

Foreigner said:
It's a good question, but it might not be better to praise the old ways too much. Europe spent the better part of 1000 years in dire feudalism. It wasn't until the Black Death that serfs had more bargaining power, since there were so few of them left!

Our society has to continue developing its moral and intellectual compassion before we can make the transition to a world where God is integrated into everything that humans do, through inner inquiry. It doesn't have to be one or the other, it's both really. But if you choose one, you create imbalance. If God comes first then people are subjugating their human, material level experience to something beyond themselves, which means less accountability. If people come first, then humans become the supreme authority and that kind of hubris would currently lead to psychopathic leadership. We saw it in the Divine Right of Kings and we see it in modern humans who think their view of God is the only correct one because they thought of it first.

It has to be both because humanity has a spiritual core as well as a practical, material one. We should definitely transition away from the idea of God as being a supreme, separate being, instead of being part of each and every one of us.
Click to expand...

Careful my friend, you sound like a Gnostic Christian.

I agree with your views but have no problem thinking in the old and better way as described in this link.

http://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

In that day, they were more as you say you would like for us today. The separation of church and state did not really exist back then.

I agree that it we can't see God everywhere, we will never find him anywhere.

Here is the old Gnostic Christian way of saying that.

GnosticChristian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is inthe sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they sayto you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, theKingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who]become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] becomeacquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are thesons of the living Father.
But if youwill not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are thatpoverty."

Regards
DL
 
Logically speaking I don't think it makes sense to put some far off ideal above the reality of the self, gotta take care of yourself, staying alive & mental/emotional needs, in order to be physically/mentally capable of taking care of anything else
 
Nevermind the slim possibility that god actually exists, why would she need our help? She's supposed to be omnipotent, omnipresent, omnieverything. We're not. So I think we should worry about ourselves.
 
belligerent drunk said:
Nevermind the slim possibility that god actually exists, why would she need our help? She's supposed to be omnipotent, omnipresent, omnieverything. We're not. So I think we should worry about ourselves.
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I agree.

rmikhail said:
You don't answer to anyone if you're omniscient. Help him help you.
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Why would you help some God who is evil?

God is shown to torture and kill innocent babies and children because of his anger against the parents. Think of the King David story as well as the first born of Egypt.

Why would you want to help such a God advance his immoral ideology?

Regards
DL
 
G_B, fundamental question: do you believe that a god (christian or not) exists as a seperate and external entity?

If god is not real (and it isn't ;)), it doesn't matter at what point it is placed in the human hierarchy- it will make no difference no matter what. And the non-existence of god will be a good thing, because it means that all the things we attribute to god- morality, justice, truth, compassion- are solely the creation of humans. It gives me hope. Given how hard god is to find in our world, I think we'll have more luck finding the answers ourselves. We've already found a lot. We really do not need god. If it were demonstrated that god existed, I still do not see why this entity should be worshipped, much less praised, even less being the subject of gratitude.
 
swilow said:
If it were demonstrated that god existed, I still do not see why this entity should be worshipped, much less praised, even less being the subject of gratitude.
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That is a very fair point, I agree. We have lots of problems here on Earth as is, and no god seems to be helping us solve them. Even though she's supposedly all-powerful, and could fix it all in one moment, but for some reason doesn't want to bother (what a loving god, eh?). So I wouldn't expect people to worship someone/thing that doesn't even bother to do anything in return.
 
rmikhail said:
You can't just rationalize your way out of god's existence. He's there even if he doesn't explicitly show himself to you, similar to how atoms are still there even if you don't see them with the naked eye. Making genuine remarks in the vein of 'where is your god now?' shows that you don't understand anything about our existence. We're here to learn and sufferring is an inexorable part of learning. It takes time and collective effort to internalize and overcome our earthly problems, and god is there every step of the way whether you want to personally acknowledge him or not. Stop being so uptight all the time and you might actually notice things you haven't noticed before.
Click to expand...

How do you know though? Has god spoken to you specifically? Life is suffering, the older I grow the more that seems to ring true. It is seemingly endless, or has been at least for the last year so. Things don't get easier for everyone. For many they get harder. much harder. I believe in the collective consciousness. God imo has nothing to do with any of this. The environment is a product of our thoughts and behaviors developed over time heavily influenced by things such as the media, electronics, religion. How do you know god exists?
 
rmikhail said:
So then is it crazy to suggest that our thoughts shape our environment?
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No, it's not. Thoughts don't directly alter the environment (as in telekinesis or whatnot), but if we assume that thought is what is responsible for organisms' mechanical movement, which does directly alter the environment, then you could say that thoughts do indirectly shape the organism's environment.
 
People do put themselves above god all the time IMO. Mainly because it's likely they made up a god in their own ridiculous image. That's why "god" hates fags, and minorities, and condones all of our "just" and "holy" wars. I guess I could go on but maybe someone here can get the point I'm making.
 
If we are bringing up the bible I hereby invoke Mark 3:35 as my response.

"For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother."

The funny thing is that the new international version removes the mother part, but King James version which is more legit retains mother. I guess they keep removing references in newer editions that we may in fact be equal to or even precedent to God, that people create God in their image instead of the other way around.
Interesting coincidence that you also quoted Mark. I would have used this verse for my response regardless.
I discovered the verse last year when there was an article going around about NASA witnessing a huge ejection of energy from a black hole that happened to be named MRK335. I looked up the verse and it humbled me.
 
By the way since the subject also came up, I identify with the Gnostics much more than any other Christian affiliation. However, as vast as their collective wisdom may be, I see it as only a piece of the grand web, so I enjoy attending Unitarian Univeralist church. I find the members of the fellowship are about as open as it gets without their brains falling out. From their perspective your initial question about putting people before God is a question that would never be posed. They don't even use the word God because they recognize the personal and unique nature of each person's higher power. But essentially their answer is yes, people first, for it is righteous to be of service to community and develop oneself through their personal journey as they embrace the many mysteries that lay beyond what we have the capacity to answer or comprehend.
 
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