Discussion Pentobarbital for lethal injection

[jasperkent]

This is NOT a thread for debating the ethics of capital punishment. I have mixed views on that issue and am glad to discuss it elsewhere.

What this thread is about is this:
IF the death penalty is to be enforced, what is the most humane and effective method to do so? I say a large dose of pentobarbital. That's it-- no "drug cocktail," just an overdose of pentobarbital.

I say this because I've taken the drug numerous times and accidentally ODed on it twice. I feel that I can speak with experience on its effects.

A little background:
I worked at a nonprofit animal shelter for 4yrs. During that time I was still into hardcore drug abuse. I routinely stole small amounts of our euthanasia drug pentobarbital (brand name: Fatal Plus). I usually imbibed it orally but sometimes IVed it (after heating it to burn off the alcohol).

Most of the time I got mild to moderate relaxation/sedation effects, similar to benzodiazepines. But twice (IV) I overshot the mark and ended up in ICU on a ventilator. Once I had lost 4 days. It's easy to do on barbiturates. I'd abused butabarbitol and phenobarbital in the past-- got WAY TOO fucked up a couple times. This is probably why doctors rarely prescribe barbs anymore. If people hadn't called 911, I would be dead. Twice.

Anyway, my premise is this: if I had my choice of how to die, pentobarbital OD would be it. This is how it goes: you feel pleasantly drunk (warm&fuzzy, relaxed, carefree) and then you are OUT. That's it. Like falling asleep. Zero pain, zero suffering.

Comments?

(edit) PS-- I was always amused by the brand name Fatal Plus. Plus? How can a critter be more than dead?

 

[AussieJoe]

A massive dose of Heroin or Fentanyl would do the job as well i would assume.

 

[Conky]

Good old fashioned outdoor firing squad where everyone holding guns is equipped with live rounds

Unlike lethal injections it's guaranteed to work every time without any complications

I bet most death row inmates would prefer to go out this way

 

[Nurse Ratched]

Good old fashioned outdoor firing squad where everyone holding guns is equipped with live rounds

Unlike lethal injections it's guaranteed to work every time without any complications

I bet most death row inmates would prefer to go out this way

Yep. Gary Gilmore thought the exact same thing.

" Let's get 'er done"

 

[Snafu in the Void]

I never understood why they make lethal injections so damn complicated. Just OD them. Go to sleep. Stop breathing. Done.

But they spend so much damn money on these weird/rare drugs to do all this weird shit to anesthetize then stop their heart which has backfired several times. So weird.

 

[cosmic charlie]

Fentanyl and Midazolam in massive doses.

Would definitely work and maybe allow a few moments of a blissfully sedating state before you drift off to death.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

I never understood why they make lethal injections so damn complicated. Just OD them. Go to sleep. Stop breathing. Done.

But they spend so much damn money on these weird/rare drugs to do all this weird shit to anesthetize then stop their heart which has backfired several times. So weird.

It's because the prisons can't access things like seconal, nembutal and other agents that would kill the death penalty prisoners. The manufacturers of said drugs won't sell them to the prisons as they don't want their drugs used for that purpose. Totally a moral issue or a political one.

So the prisons have to buy these shit drugs in combinations of 3 because they are not only cheap but the manufacturers will sell them to them. The first one ( midazolam to chill them out ) the second one succynlcholine ( to paralyze them ) and the last one potassium something or other to stop their heart. Thats all they can get and now the makers of midazolam are saying F you.......we aren't selling it to you anymore. So now the prisons get this cheap alternative and like you said it doesn't work as well. And of course the people that are watching the execution aren't all that sad to see the prisoner suffer. Probably beats the way their loved one went out.

Bullets are cheap and the firing squad is 6 guys. They draw a circle over your heart and none of the 6 know if it was their bullet that did the trick. Works every time and it's really quick. It's how I would want to go out.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Bullets are cheap and the firing squad is 6 guys. They draw a circle over your heart and none of the 6 know if it was their bullet that did the trick. Works every time and it's really quick. It's how I would want to go out.

it's weird how people want death upon another but don't want to use violence

"killing them softly.mp3"

humans are strange creatures

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

This is NOT a thread for debating the ethics of capital punishment. I have mixed views on that issue and am glad to discuss it elsewhere.

What this thread is about is this:
IF the death penalty is to be enforced, what is the most humane and effective method to do so? I say a large dose of pentobarbital. That's it-- no "drug cocktail," just an overdose of pentobarbital.

I say this because I've taken the drug numerous times and accidentally ODed on it twice. I feel that I can speak with experience on its effects.

A little background:
I worked at a nonprofit animal shelter for 4yrs. During that time I was still into hardcore drug abuse. I routinely stole small amounts of our euthanasia drug pentobarbital (brand name: Fatal Plus). I usually imbibed it orally but sometimes IVed it (after heating it to burn off the alcohol).

Most of the time I got mild to moderate relaxation/sedation effects, similar to benzodiazepines. But twice (IV) I overshot the mark and ended up in ICU on a ventilator. Once I had lost 4 days. It's easy to do on barbiturates. I'd abused butabarbitol and phenobarbital in the past-- got WAY TOO fucked up a couple times. This is probably why doctors rarely prescribe barbs anymore. If people hadn't called 911, I would be dead. Twice.

Anyway, my premise is this: if I had my choice of how to die, pentobarbital OD would be it. This is how it goes: you feel pleasantly drunk (warm&fuzzy, relaxed, carefree) and then you are OUT. That's it. Like falling asleep. Zero pain, zero suffering.

Comments?

(edit) PS-- I was always amused by the brand name Fatal Plus. Plus? How can a critter be more than dead?

As someone who took an (intentional) overdose of barbiturates (Phenobarbital) I can confirm it is the most pleasant way possible to go. The pills hit me faster than I'd expected (before I could hide). I was homeless and planned to go go into one of the toilets in the city library as they are individual rooms that lock and I'd have 7 hours in there to die before the place closed and someone checked the room was empty. They had computers so I decided to listen to my favourite music one last time and then go into one of the toilet rooms as soon as I felt the barbs taking effect. However, I felt them starting to work and literally before I'd even stood up, I fell backwards unconscious out of my chair. Obviously, public place and despite the fact that paramedics got to me in less than 5 minutes they said I was already in a coma when they arrived (not breathing, no reaction to pain, GCS of 3). I woke up in ICU on life-support 5 days later.

Obviously, I "Failed" as I underestimated how fucking FAST that shit hits, but what I DID experience was a sudden feeling of completely calm and warmth (like total peace) followed by rapid unconsciousness, which just felt like falling asleep.

I absolutely do not want to encourage anyone to try it...but I'd definitely agree that Barbiturate OD is the kindest way to kill someone. Not gonna go into why I'm against the death penalty as OP has stated they don't want us discussing that aspect, but yeah, there's no better way to go. If I'm ever terminally ill and in a lot of pain or w/e, I would 100% procure barbiturates again (one thing I will say, like if it was done with the death penalty, I DID get 100% real pills - Phenobarbital 60mg - via doctor prescription* and then a pharmacy, I didn't risk getting fake pills that would fuck me up in some horrible way).

*OBVIOUSLY not for assisted suicide; I lied to a doctor (which is very illegal so don't do it)

As far as I know, all assisted suicide places, like Dignitas, also use barbiturates.

 

[JTemperance]

Good old fashioned outdoor firing squad where everyone holding guns is equipped with live rounds

Unlike lethal injections it's guaranteed to work every time without any complications

I bet most death row inmates would prefer to go out this way

It's more honest, too. Let's not pretend we're performing a medical procedure on these people when we're trying to kill them.

Personally, I doubt there is any "painless" way to be killed. Painless ways to die? Certainly. But painless ways to die against your will, with full knowledge of what is happening? Unlikely IMHO.

If you inject opiates or barbs expecting to catch a nod and then lapse into unconsciousness, that's one thing. If you're strapped down on a gurney and wheeled into the "death room" on your execution date, you're not going to be riding the drug's effect – you're going to be fighting against it with all the strength your body possesses.

 

[jasperkent]

... If I'm ever terminally ill and in a lot of pain or w/e, I would 100% procure barbiturates...

Me too.

 

[jasperkent]

humans are strange creatures

I nominate this for Understatement of the Year.

 

[Skorpio]

So the prisons have to buy these shit drugs in combinations of 3 because they are not only cheap but the manufacturers will sell them to them. The first one ( midazolam to chill them out ) the second one succynlcholine ( to paralyze them ) and the last one potassium something or other to stop their heart. Thats all they can get and now the makers of midazolam are saying F you.......we aren't selling it to you anymore. So now the prisons get this cheap alternative and like you said it doesn't work as well. And of course the people that are watching the execution aren't all that sad to see the prisoner suffer. Probably beats the way their loved one went out.

Just nitpicking here, but the original 3 drug cocktail used pentobarbital as the sedative. Midazolam was only used recently due to the non-allowence of pento.

It's a fairly shit method, as the paralytic effectively hides any signs of suffering from incomplete anesthesia.

Honestly the big thing people get up in arms about with the combined sedative overdoses is the fact that the condemned individual undergoes overdose symptoms as they die. The 3 drug cocktail is plainly for the comfort of the viewers, and likely causes more suffering to the condemned, as improper executions will not be detected.

If you are gonna kill somebody, make it nasty, people should really see the process. Bring back the firing squad

 

[Snafu in the Void]

If you are gonna kill somebody, make it nasty, people should really see the process. Bring back the firing squad

the reality of violence and death doesn't fit into people's little bubble

they want to give it out without the guilt of giving it

"civilized modern society"

we are still violent savage animals at heart

 

[Snafu in the Void]

personally, I've always felt life in prison was a much worse sentence than death

I would choose death over 40+ years in American prisons any day

if I was in the UK or some EU countries, I'd probably stay in the hotel, they are way too lenient

US prisons are barbaric

 

[jasperkent]

personally, I've always felt life in prison was a much worse sentence than death
I would choose death over 40+ years in American prisons any day...
...US prisons are barbaric

Absolutely.
I would choose death rather than more than one year in prison.

 

[cosmic charlie]

Absolutely.
I would choose death rather than more than one year in prison.

It's not THAT bad, I've been there a couple times.

 

[jasperkent]

It's not THAT bad, I've been there a couple times.

No thanks. I can't stand being locked up, even for short periods. The longest I've been in jail was 40 days-- and it drove me batshit crazy. I was plotting my own death the entire time.

 

[negrogesic]

I was a vet tech years ago and of course tried drinking the stuff we used to euthanize animals with:



I figured, "hey maybe i should drink that pink stuff we kill dogs with , it seems to be working for them".

All I remember however is not remembering much and waking up with a hangover. Barbiturates can cause nasty hangovers. Never injected it. I was taking a smorgasbord of drugs at that time so unfortunately I don't quite know what pentobarbital actually feels like (despite having taken it).

I have however gone through a ton of phenobarbital tablets in life. I had a friend who had access to a crooked pharmacist who would unload giant bottles of various drugs, and I wound up with many bottles of 1 grain and 1/2 grain phenobarbital tablets. Phenobarbital is some nasty stuff, in fact its entire effect feels like a pentobarbital hangover. Not very pleasant, I remember it making me feel cold and just kind of gross. Nonetheless I went through all the many hundreds of tablets. At that time I was also at my peak methadone daily dose of 380mg/day, and during one such episode of phenobarbital use, someone tried to wake me up and couldn't. Granted I was out cold, but I do sort of remember them trying to wake me up and part of my nonresponse was simply me ignoring them.

Next thing I know a bunch of paramedics are looking down on me, at which point I wake up quickly. Of course I am still pretty zonked out on phenobarbital (and methadone, and also benzos). I don't recall how I got on the gurney but next thing I know I'm being wheeled out and am in the back of an ambulance, groggy but awake and responsive. A paramedic takes out a syringe and I realize what it is (narcan) and I plead with him not to. Granted I didn't plead in the nicest way, but I was strapped down and he hit me with it. What ensured was what one would expect would happen from being thrown into precipitated withdrawal while dependent on 380mg/day of methadone. Within 40 seconds or so I begin involuntarily shitting myself, and it only got worse from there. In retrospect it is interesting having gone through that, and while it was indescribably painful, it didn't seem to really traumatize me in anyway. Imagine the pain you feel when sticking your hand into cold ice water and holding it there. That's how precipitated withdrawal from 380mg/day of methadone feels, except imagine your entire body feeling like that. Unfortunately unlike the short lived discomfort when your hand is in ice water (which one can remove from the ice when the pain is unbearable) the pain in my case didn't stop.

In terms of inducing death, barbs are the gold standard, but in the situation described above, they merely got me into hot water from the sedation they caused (rather than inducing any medically dangerous state). Yet interestingly, throughout all my many years of extreme dose death-wish type drug use (like shooting entire 16mg fentanyl patches in giant 3ml shots ontop of oodles of methadone and benzos and etc) the one thing that caused me to stop breathing, induced cardiac arrest and put me on life support was the barbiturate-like, Quaalude analog etaqualone. And interestingly, at that time I was off methadone, thus opioids weren't really involved (though I did have a bit of a poppy pod tea habit and a good sized benzo habit to).

But I certainly didn't see it coming. I had been smoking etaqualone (I must have eaten some too) and was feeling nice. I had drawn a bath and was about to get into it but decided to take another hit of etaqualone before getting in. Next thing i know it is 6 days later and I wake up gagging because there is a tube down my throat. They never figured out what I took, and I never told them, but unfortunately what makes quaalude and quaaludes analog overdoses particularly tricky to treat is the host of weird seizure activity that accompanies it. They had to induce a coma to stop all the weird electrical activity. And given that I was brought in with a respiration rate of zero, they expected that I'd had have some degree of brain damage.

Good thing I never made it to the bath as I surely would have died.

Bottom line, had barbiturates and quaaludes been around like they were in the 1970s, I think there is almost no chance that I'd still be alive (since I know for certain I would have abused the fuck out of them). If I felt compelled to blow through hundreds of phenobarbital tablets (despite how gross they feel) I can't imagine what I would have done with seconal.

If I were faced with the need to end my life I'm not sure what cocktail I'd resort to, but given my history of regularly taking lethal doses of a variety of drugs, I'd probably go with a shotgun or something of that nature.