☮ Social ☮ [PD Social Tripping Thread] NEW! Gather here for swirly talk

[Img_9999]

I noticed that a lot of you guys seem to be struggling with depression and other issues.
I'm not trying to make a bad intentioned question here, but I'm just genuinely curious because I think it is an issued that should be adressed:

How do you think that speaks about how psychedelic drugs affect our mental health ?
Or otherwise, does it speaks about what kind of people get attracted to drugs in general ?

Maybe it's just coincidence and has nothing to do with anything at all.

I've noticed in myself that I've started feeling a lot more uncomfortable about many things since I started tripping, but I'm not really sure I could relate that to my usage of psychedelics, or just to all the things I'm being confronted with in the transition from early adulthood to "maturity", which are two things that happened simultaneously so they are hard to tell apart in it's effects. I actually was a lot more depressed in my teenage years. I wouldn't say I'm depressed, but I kind of feel like I'm more "troubled" now. There's a lot out there that actually upsets me and angers me about the world, or the things I have to deal with, whereas when I was a teen my depression was so much self-centered and narcissistic. Can't be sure if I can attribute that "awareness" to psychedelics, or just to the fact of having seen/gone through more things, of which psychedelics are just another. Even when a very important one at that.


But back on topic, what do you guy's think about my questions ? This seems important to me specially when the drug's legalization movement seems to appeal a lot to the fact that psychedelics seem to have a positive effect on mental health of people with depression and terminal illness, PTSD and such ... But can we say that is true for us ? ?


Or is it just that we, more prone to depression, were more attracted to and charmed with psychedelics BECAUSE they feel so therapeutic ? But could we say the effect is lasting at all ? Or are we just momentarily alienating ourselves just like a benzo user numbs down his anxiety ? I can say that I feel like I gained some truly useful insights from my trips, which have helped me cope with some of the stress that being a human being carries, but I'm not sure how the number goes when correlating psychedelic use and depression/other mental health problems. Maybe its this society that is fucking hard with us and there's really no difference in the number between different populations; We are all depressed and overly-anxious in this postmodern western world.

I know that this is a tough anthropological question that doesn't have an "at hand" answer, but I wanted to know your opinion.

 

[Xorkoth]

I think that people who think deeply and are unusually intelligent are more likely to be attracted to psychedelics, and are also more likely to be depressed.

I will also say that for a period of a number of years after I first tripped, I found myself relatively overwhelmed and confused, but over time everything makes more sense to me. I feel like life makes the most sense that it ever has for me right now, and psychedelics are part of the reason why. They can be a double-edged sword though. I have been talking to so many people about the subject of depression in the past few days. I think circumstances play a tremendous role. I think humans, from an evolutionary standpoint (ie, what we are used to as a species) need a connection to nature and a strong community to feel fully happy. In addition to that, spending your time and energy doing something you love and are passionate about improves quality of life so powerfully. My friend plays bass and he's in a very active band doing what he loves. He's broke as a joke, but he's one happy ass motherfucker, because the majority of what he spends his time on brings him an intense amount of joy simply to participate in. It's basically my rule in life these days. Do what you love, and don't let things get in the way of that. Eliminate what hurts and do what you love. I don't know if that will work for everyone but I really want to believe it will. And it is for me.

 

[Solipsis]

There is a correlation, not a causation...

People who are for example seeking, contemplative, experimental, intelligent are the prototype psychedelic users but also recipes for mental issues of a few kinds. (edit ha i see we think alike xorkoth)

I was in love with psychedelics long before I got depressed. But if anything, over time I started seeing much greater value in responsible therapeutic soulful use, while in the beginning I was seeking philosophical / spiritual / existential truth, and for the rest wanted to adventurous 'fear and loathing'.
For me therapeutic use is still not anything close to any anti-depressant, but rather alignment with my heart... wanting to better myself after honestly seeing where it's time for me to be e.g. more responsible, a 'wise' evaluation of how I lead my life in a way that I don't think I have the emotional intelligence for sober. It probably won't cure a neurobiological depressed phase, but it helps keep a sane mind in a sane body leading a good life.

I'm depressed as ever at the moment, although I am seemingly finally out of a long shitstorm, and have started tripping again (2x AL-LAD now). I wouldn't have tripped if on those days I wasn't actually feeling okay or pretty good even - and during the trips I felt a sense of wonder and a deep healing that made me sort of hopeful again and similar things I've missed for quite some time.
I will only speak for myself and not at all assume that you guys have similar causes for depression as I... that I am hurting now is probably one of those typical things where the pain is coming out just when the sky clears up, a cathartic wave of sorts rolling back?

Drinking is definitely not helping me at all right now, but I feel like psychedelics are great allies for me once again. I hope that I will feel better over time now that I have less to worry over.

What's going on with me, and what happened, iamthesuck, is that I got a catch-22 of not having a reliable place to live anymore starting a few years ago and instability / inability to work my way up to a decent job that would pay for relief of that. I also got mental illness I never really knew about, compensating for it and coping - and with that too: every time I thought I could get decent help I had to go on waiting lists again or move myself, or get a referal etc. Meanwhile I had a relationship and that ended, too. It suffered too much from the stresses we were both having, she was sweet and could manage a while but became kind of a bitch anyway even though I was ever supporting of her panic disorder etc. It was simply all too much, I folded like origami, too... and slipped into addiction (again), but kicked it as soon as I could. Still, I went from pretty happy and trained to pathetic.
Very recently she reached out to me again, but I made clear I'm pretty apprehensive about the whole thing.

Anyway now after finding an appartment elsewhere in the south of the netherlands where the housing crisis isnt as bad, and being very happy with the decoration etc... and hopefully I am in luck with landing a job in design / 3d printing related tech I got my eye on. The main guy there had a talk with my parents (didn't know about any of it), and apparently he used to trip and was very impressed / empathetic about my talents and interests.
Hopefully I get my inspiration back soon enough, cause I am so unproductive now - can have a small break since I am just finishing up decorating but yea ok, it would probably have a good effect if I continued my design / cartoon / composition / creative projects I have ready to go on hold.
Might go on methylphenidate, as I mentioned, but I haven't even discussed all the options with my brand new shrink. I don't want insomnia from it thats for sure..

Hope you're clear after the chemo pharmakos! Best wishes
and a good yard to you sir

 

[TheAppleCore]

I noticed that a lot of you guys seem to be struggling with depression and other issues.
I'm not trying to make a bad intentioned question here, but I'm just genuinely curious because I think it is an issued that should be adressed:

How do you think that speaks about how psychedelic drugs affect our mental health ?

Good question. I think it reflects on the fact that psychedelic users are more self-aware, and thus more vocal about the emotional ups and downs that occur in every human being on the planet.

Everybody will always have emotional issues of some description or other. Greater self-awareness doesn't eliminate problems, it just helps transform third-world problems into first-world problems. (I'm sure Isaac Newton felt pretty dumb sometimes.)

Do what you love, and don't let things get in the way of that. Eliminate what hurts and do what you love. I don't know if that will work for everyone but I really want to believe it will.

Correct. It can be difficult to accept at first, because it almost sounds too good to be true. People are afraid, ignorant, and/or jealous, and they've programmed us with a lot of misinformation about how the world works when we were young and impressionable. But yeah, just have fun, be yourself, and things fall into place.

 

[pharmakos]

I've been depressed since puberty basically. Started talking about suicide when I was 12. Didn't touch a mind altering substance til after I graduated high school, didn't trip for the first time til I was nearly 21. I will be 30 this summer.

 

[vortech]

This is a question that requires us to look deep and hard at the source of psychological imbalances, and how our recreational/spiritual/therapeutic/self-medication with this class of drugs has influenced our chemistry and affected those imbalances directly or indirectly, short-term and long-term. Considering the fact there are so many variables, and the fact that correlation may not mean causation, the answer can not be clear without a lot more formal research with these drugs, So far, just about all recent research articles point towards substances such as psilocybin (http://www.psypost.org/2016/05/magi...vide-new-avenue-antidepressant-research-42927), LSD, MDMA and ketamine as near-wonder drugs for the likes of treatment-resistant depression, Major depressive disorder, PTSD, physical addictions to harder drugs etc. However, in these studies the drugs were used only once or a few times, sometimes at lower-than-recreational doses. The jury is still out for people like us who sometimes use psychedelics regularly for years. There is a lot of evidence though that abusing MDMA leads to a burnout of the serotonin receptors, and abusing things like ketamine can have the opposite effect of low-dose therapy, causing long-term upregulation/downregulation of systems in the brain that keep us balanced. SO I guess the answer is yes AND no, they are a double edged sword. Effective therapy requires responsibility, education on harm reduction and restraint, a trait that many people who are attracted to these drugs lack due to addictive tendencies.

Personally, I have experienced what I would call chemically-induced bi-polar disorder from abusing dissociatives to the limit. Also last year, after MXE disappeared I would say I was more depressed for a few months than I had been in many years (and some other lingering symptoms that have since returned to baseline). I also relapsed on opiates a few times before returning to a daily suboxone regimen last month which honestly helped so much that I now feel like a very normal and balanced functioning member of society. I tried a few pharmaceutical meds for depression and anxiety and ultimately gave up after four months when I realized that getting back on a low dose of subs took care of everything.

 

[Solipsis]

I'm glad, that you feel normal and balanced again vortech

And yeah the trick (or not a trick but where the promises can break down) is not overdoing it with the therapeutic mind expanding drugs. Speaking for myself, appropriate and responsible use of some drugs can coexist with abuse of others. It's important to really see that difference when you're a poly user, and it may not be easy.

I believe in psychedelics and always have basically, abusing them is a thing of the past since quite some time so I will keep them for sporadic occasions.. I'm sure MDMA can be a tool to really get excellent insights when you can see past fear, but I don't believe I have much therapeutic use for them. Dissociatives I tried to use therapeutically, but I think you can't really have high expectations for doing it at home unsupervised and effective for that. I wanted it to be 'responsible' as a supplement but believe DIY jobs are often very flawed even if professional K therapy may be an incredible advent. So I fully admit that the use I picked up again (3-MeO-PCP today) is not justified.

I should really give it time, this second (or nth) chance I'm given, since I'm building something fresh and healing doesn't happen overnight and often only partially... on the other hand I'm at a point where I'm willing to put faith in stimulant ADD-meds for me, even if it turns out I would just be using it to fuel my productivity and get my life going again, but more proactively than I would without. If it actually remedies attention issues completely appropriately and highly effectively that would be best case scenario.

My parents are probably thinking: "oh really? you're trying to solve problems with abusable drugs again?" -_- and my defense is: I didn't ask to get checked for ADD, that's all on them ;p
Which would absolutely never justify any actual abuse of medication, obviously. Fortunately I don't have a taste for stims anymore, and of all the shit I've gotten myself into that was never a biggie, as opposed to depressants.. but clearly I would have to keep a close eye on myself.

 

[TheAppleCore]

WOW... another absolutely magical trip on metocin / psilacetin 50/50. I got an unbelievably powerful demonstration of the interaction between your belief about your own health, and perceptible symptoms of illness, which led to a windfall of radical new thoughts about myself.

I started to worry that I was engaging in an unhealthy usage pattern of psychedelics, and as I began to convince myself that I was acting in error, my ears started ringing until I was nearly deaf, then my vision started to black out, and I was physically incapacitated, curled into a fetal position, and just as it was seemingly about to climax in some kind of cataclysmic meltdown, like the point in a dream where you're falling falling FALLING off the edge closer and closer to the grounnnnnddd...

!!

I realized that it was all in my head, and that I was actually completely fine -- in fact better than ever! I was apparently poisoned to complete paralysis, and in the blink of an eye, I was right back on my feet, feeling relaxed and confident. What a convincingly dramatic portrayal of sickness we can play on ourselves when we think ourselves to be sick...

I'm at a point where I'm willing to put faith in stimulant ADD-meds for me, even if it turns out I would just be using it to fuel my productivity and get my life going again, but more proactively than I would without. If it actually remedies attention issues completely appropriately and highly effectively that would be best case scenario.

Please describe your specific attention deficit symptoms, and I'm confident that I can tell you whether or not amphetamines will help you, simply based on my own observations after extensive and careful (attempted but failed) use of amphetamines for productivity. In any case be CAREFUL because even in tiny doses amphetamines can, and most of the time will be a force of destruction!

 

[Solipsis]

I don't expect to be put on amphetamines, it'd probably be methylphenidate suggested first. An old friend of mine, well he is a much more serious case and got dexamph prescribed but I never heard of something Adderall like here, I think they aren't so 'generous' here in the NL as it sounds like it is in the US, and that goes for various types of psych medications. Of course it will always still boil down to the person you get as a psychiatrist, but I am talking tendencies / general / on average / stats.

My symptoms are 6-8 out of 9 criteria, and they were there at young age. Got a problem with finishing tasks, with paying attention to a stimulus and not switch to other things that distract me - so endurance, unless I am really invested intellectually then I get hyperfocus and I can hardly stop with something. I'm chaotic in multitasking, but I tend to "try" multitasking more often than is practical or necessary. I lose or forget stuff extremely often, unless they are routines that got ingrained over many years or from intense learning moments etc. I have problems getting started on things and focus my motivation, although that may not be ADD-related.

I do know that DARI's work for me at therapeutic dosage, I have experience with that, mostly methylphenidate but also others. But when it's too much like over double a normal dose then it gets counterproductive.

Anyway I have extensive experience with HQ racemic and dextro amphetamine, not that recent though. For the most part i 'abused' racemic not purely for functional reasons but to speed. Dextro, I've actually used at therapeutic doses for productivity in my early 20s and it certainly helped. It just didn't register with me as something I perhaps ought to get an official script for, and I have long been convinced that I self-medicated plenty to survive but for some reason not legitimately. I probably never felt like a typical plain ADD or ADHD-er, is the reason. Which makes sense since I am not >> comorbidity.

I'm interested to hear your insight and experiences though, because I have always seriously doubted how amphs or DARI's being effective for a person would be indicative of ADHD - that's backwards reasoning, obviously most people would dose-dependently see an increase in productivity. Even to the point that I would ask you: what people don't benefit?
And again: whether I myself would benefit or not wouldn't necessarily have anything to do with ADD if purely focusing about productivity - I don't doubt that. But whether it would help my attention problems is a different matter. In my experience and expectation, yes at limited / normal therapeutic dosage I see my thinking getting more linear from it. And that gets things done, organized.

Too linear thinking can stump creativity, but I think that my thinking / creativity / productivity is now so 'parallel' and scattered that while the benefit is being able to make big associative leaps which are important for original creativity, that is pointless if productive output is so low.

On bluelight I tend to have hyperfocus also I am benefiting from limited dose 3-meo today ;p

If you know about alternative ADHD meds like atomoxetine thatd be helpful.

 

[iamthesuck]

I probably have adhd, but my self assessment didn't yield the right results so insurance denied coverage for concerta. Personally I hate it, and much prefer ir Ritalin or amph. Stimulants mess with my blood sugar in xr form and leave me dizzy. Just for what it's worth, in case you have the option is suggest multiple ir doses throughout the day

 

[Solipsis]

Oh sorry maybe you could get a second opinion? If you believe you probably have ADHD the assessment should reflect that so you could go over it again? Obviously the point is not to tweak answering to match the expected result for a positive ADHD diagnosis, but to illustrate a counterargument: I have done an assessment years ago when I was coping a bit better, younger and not as much shit had happened, and ADHD was only around threshold and suspected as possibility but nothing was done with it, let alone a "heteroanamnesis". Now years later, even the heteroamnesis from my mother's account of me reflects that I always showed those problems it was just not recognized as such. Nothing was tweaked, not by anyone.

I have tried concerta only once, and it was a very good experience: it helped and felt nicely even. However I am not 100% sure if I felt it stopped acting in time to avoid insomnia issues. It might be an option if I have a decent circadian rhythm so that I can take it early in the day.

 

[iamthesuck]

Early in the day is a must. The first time I tried it I took 112 mg at once. Big mistake lol. I've also noticed a sweet spot with dosing, too little makes me feel off all day, too much and I'm too speedy.

I was diagnosed by a physician and Ph.D. Therapist but insurance is a motherfucker. Some masters student at my Uni gave me an assesment, as well as friends and family. I'm always tired but can't sit still, but they never noticed the "antsy" aspects because I was so tired. Results said I wasn't hyperactive enough so no medication coverage

 

[Solipsis]

What the bleeding hell? It's still ADD if you qualify for it but sans the hyperactivity?

edit:

Well my shrink going right down to business and after discussing the ins and outs I now got a script for methylphenidate. that escalated quickly ;p
Anyway I guess I am going to have to take back what I said about dexamph, apparently it's not just for the harder cases but given to plenty of people who don't tolerate MPH too well.
I kinda love dexamph (not too much), but am a little scared that it would be overdoing it. However it certainly is an effective drug.

Let's first see how the MPH goes. I am keeping it at moderate d.d. cause I can manage part of my life without it (the somewhat more casual part), so it will be used to get important work done that I have trouble with starting, keeping up or finishing. I am picking it up tomorrow.

 

[TheAppleCore]

Got a problem with finishing tasks, with paying attention to a stimulus and not switch to other things that distract me - so endurance, unless I am really invested intellectually then I get hyperfocus and I can hardly stop with something. [...] I lose or forget stuff extremely often, unless they are routines that got ingrained over many years or from intense learning moments etc. I have problems getting started on things and focus my motivation

These statements describe me well.

obviously most people would dose-dependently see an increase in productivity. Even to the point that I would ask you: what people don't benefit?

Hardly anybody. It's probably rare to find an individual that doesn't experience an immediate productivity increase after taking a therapeutic dose of dexamp. But remember the keyword -- immediate. For me, amphetamines are a short-term win in exchange for a long-term loss. I found that they made me consume my stamina faster than my body could replenish it with proper diet, exercise and sleep. That, and the stress-level increase made the regimen exhausting and unsustainable after about a week or so of continuous use.

In my experience and expectation, yes at limited / normal therapeutic dosage I see my thinking getting more linear from it. And that gets things done, organized.

I believe you should use your own experience as the ultimate authority in how you choose to treat your symptoms, so if you're seeing a long-term benefit from a particular regimen, then yeah, go for it.

But, I would ask you these questions: How do you feel about the work you're doing right now? Do you feel like you're on the right track, or do you feel a sense of uncertainty, or hesitation about the choices you've made? Do you find your work rewarding?

If you feel a sense of self-doubt, or dissatisfaction with your career path, or if you're not enjoying the work you do, it's completely normal (and quite healthy) to be unable to focus. You may have grown up in a culture and/or educational system that tried to shoehorn you into a path that doesn't suit you; and instead of blaming the institutions that surrounded you, you blamed yourself, calling yourself diseased. This is backwards thinking.

Of course, it's not always easy to just jump ship and completely change your career, so for now, try this exercise: wherever you have trouble focusing, try to find more efficient ways of completing the task. Find shortcuts. Spend less time obsessing and perfecting. The faster you're able to burn through your work, the more rewarding it is; and the more rewarding it is, the easier it is to focus. Dopaminergic drugs work on this very principle. But the problem with stimulants is that they can allow us to be content with bad work habits. I think it's often better to allow your natural attention span to force you to make improvements in your efficiency.

The bottom line is, in order to focus, the task at hand must be enjoyable. You can either use chemicals to artificially stimulate the reward pathways of the brain, or you can change your workflow to be more naturally rewarding. I'm not saying one way is "right" and the other is "wrong", but it's important to be aware of the basic nature of the problem.

If you know about alternative ADHD meds like atomoxetine thatd be helpful.

Unfortunately my experience is limited to amphetamines.

 

[iamthesuck]

Good luck and tell us how it goes!

ADD is no longer a diagnosis in the us unfortunately, and I can get prescribed no problem, but no coverage and then it's hundreds a month for low dose er. I started (ab)using some of that wonderful speed paste from Europe, and that helps. Not a long term solution, but new insurance is in my future. Then maybe I can get enough meds for my cluster headaches too lol

 

[Solipsis]

These statements describe me well.



Hardly anybody. It's probably rare to find an individual that doesn't experience an immediate productivity increase after taking a therapeutic dose of dexamp. But remember the keyword -- immediate. For me, amphetamines are a short-term win in exchange for a long-term loss. I found that they made me consume my stamina faster than my body could replenish it with proper diet, exercise and sleep. That, and the stress-level increase made the regimen exhausting and unsustainable after about a week or so of continuous use.

At what dosage is that? Cause if you take more than a few mg (like that old friend of mine he got prescribed something like 7 or 11 - not a seven-eleven joke - 5mg tablets per day) I can certainly imagine, but I have taken it at around 5 for the whole day and found pretty much nothing but benefit.

I believe you should use your own experience as the ultimate authority in how you choose to treat your symptoms, so if you're seeing a long-term benefit from a particular regimen, then yeah, go for it.

But, I would ask you these questions: How do you feel about the work you're doing right now? Do you feel like you're on the right track, or do you feel a sense of uncertainty, or hesitation about the choices you've made? Do you find your work rewarding?

I am unemployed right now, went through an insane time of having to move 3 times, 4 if you count expanding in a house before having to leave, pretty much with 3, 3 and 6 months in between resp. With my condition that is just hell and it probably wouldn't be easy for the average person anyway.
Now I am in a fresh new home with renting rights and finally safe to stay, so adapting now and doing my own decorating, getting affairs in order and am making contact with a potential employer. Meanwhile I wanna pursue my arts, but career-wise I will have to start over. So can't answer that properly.

If you feel a sense of self-doubt, or dissatisfaction with your career path, or if you're not enjoying the work you do, it's completely normal (and quite healthy) to be unable to focus. You may have grown up in a culture and/or educational system that tried to shoehorn you into a path that doesn't suit you; and instead of blaming the institutions that surrounded you, you blamed yourself, calling yourself diseased. This is backwards thinking.

Of course, it's not always easy to just jump ship and completely change your career, so for now, try this exercise: wherever you have trouble focusing, try to find more efficient ways of completing the task. Find shortcuts. Spend less time obsessing and perfecting. The faster you're able to burn through your work, the more rewarding it is; and the more rewarding it is, the easier it is to focus. Dopaminergic drugs work on this very principle. But the problem with stimulants is that they can allow us to be content with bad work habits. I think it's often better to allow your natural attention span to force you to make improvements in your efficiency.

The bottom line is, in order to focus, the task at hand must be enjoyable. You can either use chemicals to artificially stimulate the reward pathways of the brain, or you can change your workflow to be more naturally rewarding. I'm not saying one way is "right" and the other is "wrong", but it's important to be aware of the basic nature of the problem.



Unfortunately my experience is limited to amphetamines.

That reminds me of Bill Gates saying that people who take shortcuts can often be creative in doing so, or something along those lines. Making a task that is boring interesting by inventing new challenges is something I do naturally, it's not really a problem. Right now things that are a problem are stuff that are basic and pedestrian in many ways, but hard for me to wrap my head around like the mind-dumbing inefficiencies of bureaucratic institutions I have to deal with. Another thing is finding inspiration and courage and peace again to work on my own stuff. It's hard to start working on something when I am scattered and disorganized about it, that discourages me to ever start. But when I get an initial impulse and quell my mind, then I'm sure I can do it.

It's possible that medication is a temporary aid for me, until things naturally fall into order and I can provide my own impulses and structure.

I don't want to waste so much time in anxiety and confusion and just get on with it for a while. But I completely agree that it's ideal to provide enough reward on my own to get a flow going, and hopefully I will at some point get there and stop the meds. But for now I just have a lot to gain from productive days even if artificially initiated - In prospect that feels like it would be extremely rewarding on its own. I know myself, when I get enthoused and passionate then it will eventually work out although I have never come so far that the productivity level is actually promising as a way of life.

[MENTION=301170]iamthesuck[/MENTION]:

Isn't low dose psychedelics pretty much the best medication for cluster headaches anyway??

 

[Xorkoth]

We decided to have a nitrous party Friday night. My friend and I planned to play music for this party (with 2 other friends). Well, emboldened by my recent sequence of psychedelic jam nights that resulted in extremely productive musical learning/performing, I decided to take dissociatives and tryptamines beforehand. Plus, of course, nitrous is so much better when on a psychedelic already. So, I took a few doses of 3-MeO-PCP throughout the day, then added 20mg of MXE when I got there. Pretty soon after that, I decided to take a tryptamine. I had been scraping my bag of 4-HO-MiPT for a while (there was a gram in there originally), and there was an unknown amount stuck to the sides, but it was pretty cakey in there. Feeling a bit manic, I decided to just wash the bag and drink it.

Oh. my. god. I've never been high like that before, never felt that way from drugs before. I think I ended up taking a very large dose, because I had combined pretty high doses of 4-sub-tryptamines with similar or even more dissociatives recently (in the realm of 40-45mg of 4-sub-tryptamines), and those trips were entirely different from this one. Within minutes I felt like my brain was being held and squeezed by some sort of energy. Everything in my vision was swimming and dripping in colors, and I felt like I was rising up out of my body. I was unable to think, it was pure, in-the-moment experience. I could hear what my friends were saying, but I was unable to participate or make sense of it. I began to think I had broken something in my brain and I felt some fear, but it was manageable. I felt sad more than anything, that I had wasted my potential for the rest of my life by frying myself on an obscure drug combo. I spent about an hour maybe just laying there feeling like I was constantly inhaling, this really strange feeling I can't explain, a constant rising, buzzing dissociation, ever-building, never arriving.

After a while we put on Circles Around the Sun, and album of Grateful Dead covers that's phenomenally good. The music started bringing me back. Slowly I could express simple thoughts. The first things I expressed were my concerns about my brain, and then after a while when I felt the feeling start to ease up, I expressed my relief. Eventually I found myself able to fully participate and I enjoyed a full-on but very euphoric and enjoyable trip for the rest of the night. One friend turned on some really crazy ambient synthesizer music, and I did some nitrous, went there a couple of times and had the best nitrous flashes, so peaceful and profound and mindblowing. The music was blowing my mind. Sudden;y a moment came where I felt ready to play music and my friend and I started playing along to the music while our other 2 friends did nitrous a bunch, and it was wonderful. I've been told since that we were blowing their minds with it. The music I was hearing to add to the baseline music we had playing was unlike anything else I've played or heard before. It was immensely satisfying to do.

It was quite the night, I haven't actually been afraid during a trip in a long time, it was probably the hardest I've ever tripped while remaining fully conscious. Or, I don't know, it was weird, it felt like some sort of malfunction happened, like I had scrambled my brain. There was no thought or spiritual realizations or anything, just this overwhelmingly intense state. I'm really glad it resolved into something beautiful and that I'm okay, and it made me realize I should never get too comfortable with potent chemicals despite how many successful voyages I have had.

I've been depressed since puberty basically. Started talking about suicide when I was 12. Didn't touch a mind altering substance til after I graduated high school, didn't trip for the first time til I was nearly 21. I will be 30 this summer.

One of my best friends in the world would say the same thing, basically. At 14 he started getting really depressed out of nowhere. It seemed to be triggered by his mom getting cancer, which coincided with puberty, but his mom recovered fine fairly quickly and has been fine since. He just struggles so hard, at least 75% of the time he's really, really depressed. The depression hits and he festers and his circumstances get worse, and that worsens the depression. It's a really vicious cycle. He's aware of it too but doesn't know what to do. I mean he hates his life, because he's not doing anything he loves, he works shit jobs, hasn't had any romance in many years, hates where he lives, doesn't have any close friends besides his brothers anywhere nearby, he's out of shape, etc etc... but he took the steps at various points to make the life he wants, but was never able to complete them (for example he went to college to study his passion but both times he tried he started out strong and by the end of the first semester he had failed out due to being too anxious to attend any classes). It's hard for me to understand but I accept that he's not able to simply "just do it".

I worry about him all the time. I try to be there for him but it's hard because when we talk the only things I have to share are really happy, positive things. He wants to hear them but it makes him feel worse about himself, I can tell.

 

[pharmakos]

i can relate to your friend a lot =/

some days i force myself to try and eventually i get to a point where i just get so stressed i break down into tears

its not always that way. there have been periods of my life where i've been happy for a few months at a time. but i always end up slipping back into my rut.

i think part of it is that i'm just not built for living in the north. michigan winters are brutal (i know you have experience with midwest winters, xorky). summers are usually better for me, but not always. but i've always got such a pile of BS in my life (physical, metal, obligational, etc.) by the time spring rolls around that it takes me at least half the summer to get my life put back together.

 

[yepyepwoah]

Yah depression...

Probably really startedabout 13-14. Wondering why the way I thought / feel seemed so different from everyone else. Watching everyone get ready for college. Hearing about all the things I was supposed to do, grow up, get a job, be responsible. While I observe everyone who says I must do these things and they are so fucking misreble, its like, why would I work so hard just to be misreable too?

Just never really got past that. Its like, I am cool with myself, I just cant find a place to fit in society. I feel like I am watching the world collapss around me and no one gives a fuck. Most days it is almost a physical pain I feel so sad. I just want to be nice and ffiendly, help people and such. Well, those people get used up and taken advantage of, then discarded when no longer of use.

I spent all day at work thinkin about getting 50mg fentanyl and killing myself. When i get to seriously thinking of suicide, it makes me even sadder knowing its not what I really want. I just want to be live my life free and the way I want, not as a wage slave. It seems so hopeless though, and I just want to stopthe fucking pain.

Didnt start drugs til 18. Tripped at 20. Mostly an alcoholic til 25. Started tripping frquently about 26-27. Now I am 31. Do I think psychs brought about the depression? Nope. Sometimes they make it better, sometimes worse. Have mostly convinced me that suicide just makes things worse, and kinda make me less likely to do it.

Its kinda fucked tho. People are like "Dude are you okay? You look so sad, whats wrong" . Then you tell em the truth and no one wants to be around you. People jist want you to lie, put on a "brave face" blah blah. I just do not know how much longer I can do it.

 

[DragonFly31]

I just cant find a place to fit in society.

I think of monks of all faiths who remove themelves from society, without any hope or future advacement in society but with their sights set on spiritual growth. To do that, they choose to toil the earth and do the menial tasks all their life. What commitment that takes ,what heart! In a world where everything seems to be about money and apparent eternal youth, it seems indeed we've got it wrong in some way.