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☮ Social ☮ PD Social Thread: Trans-dimensional Hyperspace Cocktail Bar - Fractals Apply Within

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^Exactly what I mean. We humans are so disconnected from our environment that we don't even know it. The whole existential crisis thing, that is a byproduct of that disconnect. We are so far from home that we don't even know where home is any longer. How can we ever really be content given our current situation? I don't think the human mind can exist happily in such an impersonal world. It worries me to think that we are, in fact, actually within a cage of our own making, and don't even know that we are in this cage.

That said, activities such as meditation, exercise, drug use, love-making and star-gazing act to bring me a bit closer to a true human life.

Shpongle- <3

 
xork said:
By that I mean, you're still connected to your emotions, it's more colorful, and there is a sense of excitement. I remember it WAY better. .
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My high dose MXE experiences were all intravenous, I remember the first half hour (would dose multiple times) of those experiences, nice rush, the feelings you describe....then a few fragmented images and half-thoughts in a sea of confusion.

willow said:
Are our requirements for non-chemical happiness too complex to actually be attained?
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If by "our" you mean we citizens of developed nations, then the answer is no.1 If by "our" you mean BLers/PDers, I'd say the higher occurrence of a positive:negative experience ratio where negative > positive would be the result of conditions comorbid with illicit drug use, e.g. mental illness and anomie.2 3


xork said:
maybesome people have evolved past that and really are happy in cities
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You and Willow ought to read the wiki page on anomie linked in superscript 3, it may offer a novel perspective, and lead you to reevaluate your primitivist/hippie narrative. Consider that greater social support on the national level is correlated with lower levels of anomie,4 perhaps this indicates that the issue isn't one of human disconnection from nature, but of individuals disconnected from the community and its norms?

Be careful not to project the disaffection of a minority onto the entire First World. You'll be seeing systemic failure every time our institutions are less than 100% effective.

xork said:
Holy crap, you hit it on the head. Wow, insightful man.
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The similarities were quite striking, I'm glad that you found the observation valid and (hopefully) valuable. If there was any insight on my part, it was in the 'diagnosis' of my mother, but I shut everyone out at a relatively young age, so I'm better at dispassionately analyzing members of what normally constitutes the group of "loved ones" than the average person. It's like they say, every cloud has a silver lining.

xork & willow said:
I think by moving to civilizations where we stayed put and built our surroundings, we doomed ourselves to always feeling out of synch, unexplainably anxious or wrong, and not spiritually fulfilled. Some feel this more than others, and hey, maybe some people have evolved past that and really are happy in cities. But I know that I feel an indefinable sense of loss and emptiness, and I am never fully comfortable except when I am camping or backpacking. In nature, my mind is free. In civilization, it's always filled with doubts and ingrained guilt (from my sense that I should always be doing something productive and "advancing myself" in my career or otherwise).

I don't think the human mind can exist happily in such an impersonal world. It worries me to think that we are, in fact, actually within a cage of our own making, and don't even know that we are in this cage.
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Are you familiar with the concept of learned helplessness?5 6 It's something I suffer from, and I'm working on it. A good start is to catch yourself thinking of things in terms of 'everything', 'always', and 'never'.

I'm not saying you have this, just that your statement reflects the maladaptive thought processes involved, I mean, how often are sweeping generalizations a good foundation for a cogent social theory? Exactly. Nor do I mean to imply that your entire position is in error, y'all make some valid critiques, point out areas of neglect that should be addressed, and bring up some healthy practices that can help ameliorate our problems.
 
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Wise words. However I personally don't think that's the reason I feel the way I do. Well actually sometimes it is, for example I keep finding myself wishing I had 2.5 kids, cars and a white picket fence. I don't actually think I really want this but sometimes my heart aches for it, presumably because I was always told that was what people wanted.

Anyway though, I do think I feel lost because of the separation from nature and the way that humans evolved to live for millions upon millions of years. I yearn for it, and whenever I get to experience it (camping, multi-day backpacking, even a day spent at a state or national park), that feeling goes away, which is glorious.

I've got to make sure not to get lazy this Spring, Summer and Fall like I have all the other years living here, and make sure to do lots of camping and outdoors stuff, and hopefully even find someone to go backpacking with along the Appalachian Trail.
 
maybe its just that i'm a masochist, but i love the city. i love the smell of smog, the drunks, the crackheads, the prostitutes, the sirens howling in the night...

i guess its just that my way of dealing with adversity is to embrace it and take an almost perverse pride in my own suffering. but give me smog and toxic chemicals and gunshots, so many radiated flesh-eating cyborgs walking the streets that i can't take my trash out without carrying a loaded 12 gauge :D

lol but seriously, i love a good camping trip in nature as much as the next guy, but i have to live in a city. i love the chaos of it. i thrive in it.
 
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I am always disappointed that the [ HR ] code doesn't really help with harm reduction. :\
Sure you get a horizontal line, but does that mean: don't cross the line or some harm will sneak up on you and molest you in the ear?

Anyways, yes NKB ... sage as a mage - frequently even more unnecessarily serious about matters than I. Living up to the name, although I wonder where the 'never' came from?

Yah MXE combines well with the sauce, unlike with ketamine which makes me very dizzy and miserably nauseous. S-ket that is. I have the urge to analyze it pharmacologically right here and now, but who knows if anyone is even interested in that. It's a social thread and nobody asked for wanna-be academic theories?

As for adolescent passion: jackpot, that's the one. I guess autism can make for an emotional rapport / emotional developmental life's history that can be a bit fogy, retarded and childishly simple... maybe not that extreme if the autism is not that extreme, but still. For me, adolescent passion was and now still seems like an emotionally explosive experience, even if naieve. I would probably idealize it more than others because the intensity is inspiring.

But: it is also a fool's love. Well in truth if you are madly in love, even more mature love I think, it is still not difficult to become an utter fool, or to make a complete fool of yourself.

It can be manic, ecstatic but also consuming and destined to crash like a rolling Icarus. Firy, passionate love flowing in a relationship is almost bipolar or rather borderlining. Many ups and downs, until indeed meltdown like NKB says. Rarely ever meant to last. Whether it is worth the pain of losing it all again is quite the conundrum, I think I am a believer and I think there can be something transcendental about a supernova-style fling, that makes it worth the suffering, just like in general special moments or special things in life can seem ALL-justifying.
I'm reminded of some mentally unstable people who say that they will rather have the brutal ups and downs than a bland steady mundane mediocrity. (Of course in general one can live a relatively steady life and still enjoy so many things, but this seems like a semi backfiring reductio ad absurdum...).
I have become somewhat convinced that some people just have a very low tolerance for boredom, maybe sometimes even morbidly. (I think it would be wrong and oversimplistic to imagine such a person always as whining when there is nothing to do, such a person may be extremely adept at finding that everything can become interesting. Initially that may seem to solve the case because there could never be boredom to return and torture that person... but it could cause the person to become addicted to novelty in a sense, it can probably become very hard to take a break from it and just have a little peace. All of this could escalate into a life of being ravished in a life of turmoil, and it may be forgotten that there were ever choices that preceded.

Finally, FFS we are in PD, are psychedelics not able to make us sore angelic or fathom hell? Similar theme?

What do all of those notions have in common? (besides apparently seconding NKB's suggestion that love is a risky gamble, just not quite as dis<3ened)

p.s. sorry, slightly on a stim rant.. hey lets invite shambles, lol
 
Never Knows Best, I read the Wiki for anomie. Very interesting stuff. I will say that anomie as a social disorder as described therein certainly sounds like it's referring to our civilization (and I suppose it is, in 1897 the industrial revolution was in full swing, and the system we have now is just an evolution of the one created when the industrial revolution happened.
 
Solipsis said:
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I am always disappointed that the [ HR ] code doesn't really help with harm reduction. :\
Sure you get a horizontal line, but does that mean: don't cross the line or some harm will sneak up on you and molest you in the ear?
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Hmm, interesting. :) Perhaps we can start a thing, imbue the
(horizontal rule it stands for, just like in HTML which is I'm sure where it comes from) with the power to stop anti-HR in its track and simultaneously attract good HR to it like a magnet, or perhaps a bug to killer bug death light.

Solipsis said:
It can be manic, ecstatic but also consuming and destined to crash like a rolling Icarus. Firy, passionate love flowing in a relationship is almost bipolar or rather borderlining. Many ups and downs, until indeed meltdown like NKB says. Rarely ever meant to last. Whether it is worth the pain of losing it all again is quite the conundrum, I think I am a believer and I think there can be something transcendental about a supernova-style fling, that makes it worth the suffering, just like in general special moments or special things in life can seem ALL-justifying.
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Yes it's an important part of life to extreme love, and there is something really great about fiery, passionate love, even though the downsides eventually become larger than the upsides (I should know, that was my relationship)

Solipsis said:
I have become somewhat convinced that some people just have a very low tolerance for boredom, maybe sometimes even morbidly.
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That's me. I HATE being bored. It's something I want to work on, because it gets me into trouble. Several times that I got past opiate physical withdrawal, I ended up trying them again because I was SO BORED.

Anyone here good at dealing with boredom? It's one of the worst types of feelings to get.

Solipsis said:
p.s. sorry, slightly on a stim rant.. hey lets invite shambles, lol
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Yeah me too! I hope Shambles comes! I miss that guy!
 
Yo MGS, i was just about to fb you to invite you here - what's up?

What was that about ibogaine?
 
They sure are. Listened to Dark Side of the Moon already too.

I read this line from someone's trip report on 2C-P and MXE:

"Fear is the fear of fear."

I really like that. It's true, I think.
 
rog said:
i guess its just that my way of dealing with adversity is to embrace it and take an almost perverse pride in my own suffering
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Something we have in common. The city is great!

soli said:
just not quite as dis♥ened
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Apparently I view unpleasant setbacks as personal failures. An insecure attachment style is not surprising, I think I'm dismissive-avoidant towards most, switching to anxious-preoccupied with people I'm closer to.1 It is fun to untangle my brain.
 
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