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๐ŸŒŸ๐ŸŒŸ Social ๐ŸŒŸ๐ŸŒŸ PD Social Thread 2022-2025 v. Year of the Phenethylamine

Alright, say encapsulation occurs in hydrothermal vent conditions. Then what? Everything just.. drifts off into a marine universe, doesn't it? Where is the selection mechanism? Where is the connection mechanism?

The hydrothermal ponds hypothesis accounts for these. How do the primordial soup people do it?
 
Alright, say encapsulation occurs in hydrothermal vent conditions. Then what? Everything just.. drifts off into a marine universe, doesn't it? Where is the selection mechanism? Where is the connection mechanism?

The hydrothermal ponds hypothesis accounts for these. How do the primordial soup people do it?
Was trying to track down this article earlier but couldn't find it at the time. Finally tracked it down.


Great read. Essentially he thinks hydrothermal vents led to basic metabolic function in these membranes that spontaneously formed BEFORE the appearance of genetic information. That final leap to evolution itself is still a little hard to see how it happened (outside of theistic beliefs anyway ;) ) but his explanation is the best one so far for how life may have begun imo.
 
"First to leave our rock" is specifically what I'm suggesting as a possibility, not first life or first intelligent life.

How could we ever know that though? The chances that we'll ever be able to contact, let alone even see except as as a tiny bit of light that looks like another star, another galaxy is virtually zero. And we're one of at least 125 billion. It's a nice thought, but I just can't think that we are somehow so special as to be the first in the entire universe. I mean yeah, we could be. But damn, the universe is 13.7 billion years old (well we know it's at least that long because of light, I think it's also kind of arrogant to state that the big bang is a fact), and humans have been around for a couple hundred thousand... our planet has been around for 4.5 billion years. Sure, it would take a certain amount of time for it to be possible for this level of complexity of matter to crystallize from the early universe, but imagine an earth-like planet somewhere in the universe (there have to be many, just statistically), that formed at the same time as Earth (again, a great many of these across the 125 billion galaxies)... imagine that instead of 5 mass extinction events, this planet had 4. Its equivalent of humans could have gotten to this point millions of years earlier (or even tens of millions).

or 2. the distance between two co-existing intelligent lifeforms is virtually insurmountable while the speed of light remains a physical ceiling. Or maybe both, or itโ€™s vastly more complex than that.

Either way, evidence of alien life = nil. I donโ€™t believe in something until thereโ€™s evidence. Sure, itโ€™s fun to think about and write science fiction about the topic, but itโ€™s just that โ€“ fiction.

The second item you listed is most likely exactly the truth. But your conclusion is just not something I can really jive with. I mean yeah, okay, we can't know either way, so you just have to go with logic as to which probability is higher. If we know and acknowledge that the universe is incomprehensibly vast - it takes light 100,000 years to travel across just our galaxy... the distance between galaxies is even greater, and there are over 125 billion of those... well I described it before. It just seems (to use a great word from someone else a bit earlier) solipsistic to think that it's more than a vanishingly small chance that our star is the only, one of out (using our galaxy as a template, though ours is bigger than many, but smaller than many, too) the number that is 1 billion times 125 billion (that's 20 zeroes) at least, that was able to develop life around it. I agree that it's likely a moot point for our everyday lives, it's probably something we'll never know, but we can still arrive at the conclusion that it's very much more likely that there is other life in the universe, vs us being the ONLY life in the entirety of the cosmos. The latter position has a similar sort of ring to me as "we are the chosen people of god". We are really not that special. Or maybe we are quite special, but even if 0.000000001% of planets with liquid water (and we have a moon of Jupiter in our solar system that is literally full of liquid water except for its core... either our solar system is chosen by god, or water isn't that uncommon) form life, that would still make for a number in the known universe of an order of magnitude of 12 zeroes - a trillion.
 
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Even with conventional rockets that we have today in 2023, we could spread Von Neumann probes through most of the galaxy within, if I recall correctly, a few million years as the common estimate. If the universe is that old, then the theorized other intelligences out there have had plenty of time to spread around. Even colony ships and etc., tho taking a long time compared to the scale of a human life span, don't take that long compared to the 13.7 billion years the universe has existed for.

As far as *other galaxies* tho who knows. Time scales are way bigger regarding travel to a different galaxy, of course.
 
Yeah I am thinking about the whole universe, not just our galaxy. It may well be that our galaxy has no other spacefaring species, but our entire galaxy is a speck of dust compared to the universe.
 
I would love to see us make contact with other (friendly!) life forms while I'm still on this earth, but at this point I don't think it'll happen.

:UFO:
 
I would love to see us make contact with other (friendly!) life forms while I'm still on this earth, but at this point I don't think it'll happen.

:UFO:
I already have and they're wonderful. Cats are just great.

But seriously, there are plenty of other intelligent species/networks on earth. From cephalopods and cetaceans to potentially weirder and more alien things like tree/mycelial networks. Parrots and corvids and apes and elephants are intelligent in their own ways, as far as we can tell. We've done a pretty mediocre job on the whole of figuring out how to share the universe with them so far.

As for the anthropomorphic space saviors with similar values but incredible technology that I think a lot of people imagine aliens to be, I wouldn't hold your breath. Space is big, empty, and unfriendly. Unsurprisingly, we're remarkably well adapted to the place where we evolved. There's food here. I feel like we'll probably cease to be humans through developments in biotechnology before we even begin to look seriously at space travel. It's surely easier to engineer away our discontent than to engineer a way to alpha centauri.
 
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I would love to see us make contact with other (friendly!) life forms while I'm still on this earth, but at this point I don't think it'll happen.

:UFO:
Consider the possibility that this encounter might not be a friendly one. Thinking of human experiences discovering foreign lands, it wasn't usually very friendly. Christopher Columbus's slaughter and enslavement of the Aztecs come to mind.
 
I already have and they're wonderful. Cats are just great.

But seriously, there are plenty of other intelligent species/networks on earth. From cephalopods and cetaceans to potentially weirder and more alien things like tree/mycelial networks. Parrots and corvids and apes and elephants are intelligent in their own ways, as far as we can tell. We've done a pretty mediocre job on the whole of figuring out how to share the universe with them so far.

As for the anthropomorphic space saviors with similar values but incredible technology that I think a lot of people imagine aliens to be, I wouldn't hold your breath. Space is big, empty, and unfriendly. Unsurprisingly, we're remarkably well adapted to the place where we evolved. There's food here. I feel like we'll probably cease to be humans through developments in biotechnology before we even begin to look seriously at space travel. It's surely easier to engineer away our discontent than to engineer a way to alpha centauri.
I'm pretty sure corvidae can literally speak to each other. Probably lots of local dialects tho.
 
Alright, say encapsulation occurs in hydrothermal vent conditions. Then what? Everything just.. drifts off into a marine universe, doesn't it? Where is the selection mechanism? Where is the connection mechanism?

The hydrothermal ponds hypothesis accounts for these. How do the primordial soup people do it?
Happened to see this on my Google news feed this morning

 
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