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🌟🌟 Social 🌟🌟 PD Social Thread 2022-2025 v. Year of the Phenethylamine

Welp, not food poisoning. Must be some 24-48 hour bug as now my wife is puking and having the same symptoms and looks like she’s in more agony than I’ve seen her in years. I’m slowly feeling somewhat able to help but not great myself. I’m wishing I had some Etizolam made into solution right now so I could at least force myself to sleep but now it looks like I’ll spend the night trying to help her while hoping I’m over the stomach bug.
Oh man, that is the worst and it's fuckin' crazy how painful it is. I'm not one given to suicidal ideation, but bad stomach illness like that… Idk how long I could deal with that shit. Glad it's usually out of the system in 48 hrs. or fewer.

I think I got it from work. I’m now going to be far more obsessive about coworkers with children not touching or using my belongings; I’m normally uptight about people using my things but I had relaxed on that for a bit. Then I noticed many of my coworkers who had kids getting bugs a lot these past months and I didn’t think much of it, since I’m not around their kids.
Kids are petri dishes, and but anyway, you don't know for sure where this came from, and like for instance I like in NYC and take public transportation all the time. People are petri dishes in general, not just kids, and so it's more important that you wash your hands, avoid touching your mouth and nose or rubbing your eyes unless you know your hands are clean. Spray everything down with disinfectant in your home and at work. Ask you wife to do the same.

Last time I was sick like this, I wound up discovering that the best approach for me was to continue to drink water, even though I would throw it back up, the process of repeatedly doing that cut down the time that I spent in agonizing pain, doubled over in bed, unable to sleep. But I think it's important to continue to metabolize things out of your body. Sleep really doesn't help much until it's over.

only to ruin days of our lives.
Oh idk, I think that Soap was done long ago, but it's impressive it managed to run from 1965 until 2022, and I believe now it's still streaming new episodes on Peacock. So I wouldn't say you ruined it 😂

Fr tho, it's not like you meant to do it. These things happen.

We had a lot of plans this weekend to get ready for the bees arriving next Friday; my wife and her mom are going to start keeping bees and producing honey and we hadn’t finished up setting the hives up and clearing the space yet. I hope we can get it done by next Friday because the bees are coming one way or another…
I'm confident you'll get the colony hives and whatnot setup for the bees to arrive this weekend. Just gonna take some overtime effort. Good luck! Sounds like a cool endeavor.
 
I had a bit of a lecherous Saturday, enjoying the last of my GHB from some time ago with some N,N-MPT, N,N-EPT, and a smidge of 2C-B that I forgot I had. I was enjoying myself enough that I even mixed in some cannabis and nitrous. It was a lovely and surprisingly visual evening.
 
^I always wanted to try GHB. Much like ketamine and MDMA it has alluded me my entire life somehow.


Feeling 80% better today. Still not down for regular food but I’m taking small amounts of kratom and getting okay sleep again. Made up some Etizolam solution yesterday which has helped with the sleeping too.

Had planned to trip Psilacetin and drink and have a small smoke of herb on Friday but fuck it I guess it’ll have to wait till sometime in May now.
 
Xorkoth is well, I speak to him often and I’m seeing him tomorrow at my daughters BDay party. It seems he is gone from BL for good, or at least for the foreseeable future.
He has gotten really into woodworking and carpentry and devotes all his free time to that and his band. He is in a good place mentally. Sometimes it’s good to get away from all the drug talk, let your brain recalibrate and find new interests and hobbies.

I got myself into a pickle with 7 ho mitragynine. This stuff is so much more powerful than Kratom. With Kratom I can take it or leave it but 7 oh got it’s hooks in me. I’ve been tapering the past week and will be jumping off on Thursday with the help of some regular leaf Kratom. Not looking forward to the WD’s but sure as hell can’t wait to be free from this poison.
Great to see you Delsyd!
That 7-ho situation does not sound fun at all, but I hope your taper goes well.
Stay strong, you got this!

Glad to hear that Xorky is doing well, I haven’t spoken to him in a month or two.
Also, I hope that things are finally recovering in NC for you guys!
Are things starting to feel back to normal yet or is everything still a bit of a mess?
 
^yeah I had a coworker try and cold turkey from 7-oh the other month, he was showing all the classic signs of kicking legit prescription dopes like hyrdocodone or suboxone. I kept telling him to taper with small bits of kratom but he’s not exactly versed with drugs and it being the kinda job I’m in I can’t exactly be like “hey everybody, I know a lot about quitting hard drugs!”
 
the kinda job I’m in I can’t exactly be like “hey everybody, I know a lot about quitting hard drugs!”
Idk, you can always just mention that you know this because "a cousin of mine has been on and off dope a few times" as an explanation…
 
My best friend rented an Airbnb and invited me along. The first night we did 3-me-pcp, 2cb and metocin. It was a good time. Nothing crazy but an enjoyable time.

The following night we did Allylescaline. 40mg each followed by another 20mg 3 hours later. Long come up with that stuff. Started ti kick in in maybe 40 minutes to an hour but didn't peak until about 3 hours in. It also has some long legs. I was still awake and pretty stimulated with lingering minor visual effects 15 hours after the redose, and that was even after 1000mg Soma, lots of gabapentin, red vein kratom and chamomile tea. 2.5mg of DOM had me tripping for 36 hours so maybe I'm just sensitive or metabolize some phenethylamimes slowly.

I really enjoyed Allylescaline though. Very gentle headspace and rather reminiscent of Mescaline. 40mg of Allylescaline felt similar in strength to maybe 400mg of mescaline, just with a somewhat less introspective headspace and a lower feeling of intensity. I've never had a strong mescaline trip and have taken it up to 500mg. Mescaline always feels intense without the trip actually being intense if that makes sense. Allylescaline was gentle, great body high for the most part, light headspace while retaining some introspection. It was also sociable with good humor. Mildly visual at that dose but what it did do visually was beautiful and it made colors pop. I see it being great for combos but it's still worthwhile on its own
 
My best friend rented an Airbnb and invited me along. The first night we did 3-me-pcp, 2cb and metocin. It was a good time. Nothing crazy but an enjoyable time.

The following night we did Allylescaline. 40mg each followed by another 20mg 3 hours later. Long come up with that stuff. Started ti kick in in maybe 40 minutes to an hour but didn't peak until about 3 hours in. It also has some long legs. I was still awake and pretty stimulated with lingering minor visual effects 15 hours after the redose, and that was even after 1000mg Soma, lots of gabapentin, red vein kratom and chamomile tea. 2.5mg of DOM had me tripping for 36 hours so maybe I'm just sensitive or metabolize some phenethylamimes slowly.

I really enjoyed Allylescaline though. Very gentle headspace and rather reminiscent of Mescaline. 40mg of Allylescaline felt similar in strength to maybe 400mg of mescaline, just with a somewhat less introspective headspace and a lower feeling of intensity. I've never had a strong mescaline trip and have taken it up to 500mg. Mescaline always feels intense without the trip actually being intense if that makes sense. Allylescaline was gentle, great body high for the most part, light headspace while retaining some introspection. It was also sociable with good humor. Mildly visual at that dose but what it did do visually was beautiful and it made colors pop. I see it being great for combos but it's still worthwhile on its own
I agree with this assessment 100%. I doubt you're a slow metabolizer of phenethylamines though – Allylescaline is similarly long-lasting as hell in me, too. I find that I need at least 60 mg to get a good trip going; otherwise it's really comfortably chilling in the background. Yes, it goes with other drugs like you might expect – rolls, K, G toward the end… it's also a pretty powerful aphrodisiac the GF and I have found… about on par with 2C-B, but not quite as overtly erotic as, say, Moxy (5-MeO-MiPT).

But yeah, DOM is a long-lasting drug. DOB and DOI lasted longer for yours truly while DOC provoked uncomfortable anxiety in me. I like that you call metocin "metocin." Sounds like "medicine." I like to call it "Colour" specifically with the "u" whether you're in the U.S. or not. There's also it's acetoxy analogue Comet, aka: Azomet, aka: 4-AcO-MET. All of these drugs, and Allylescaline I like to describe as being "outrospective" rather than "introspective".

Great report; thank you for sharing.
 
I agree with this assessment 100%. I doubt you're a slow metabolizer of phenethylamines though – Allylescaline is similarly long-lasting as hell in me, too. I find that I need at least 60 mg to get a good trip going; otherwise it's really comfortably chilling in the background. Yes, it goes with other drugs like you might expect – rolls, K, G toward the end… it's also a pretty powerful aphrodisiac the GF and I have found… about on par with 2C-B, but not quite as overtly erotic as, say, Moxy (5-MeO-MiPT).
That's good to know. I mean 2CB and 2CE always lasted as long as they should for me. DOM lasted FOREVER though. My friend took twice as much as me and didn't trip as long. My DOM trip was traumatic though so maybe it just got me stuck in that headspace for a while. I was definitely having visuals 36 hours later though. I also found Allylescaline to be pro-sexual. I actually found it made me more horny than 2CB does. I've never done either with a partner, just my friend. I imagine 2CB would be more of an aphrodisiac with a partner than without. The body high of allylescaline really lends itself towards the erotic. As you said, not quite as erotic as 5-MeO-MiPT. I will definitely be doing 60mg next time. Probably 30mg followed by 30mg half an hour later or so.

But yeah, DOM is a long-lasting drug. DOB and DOI lasted longer for yours truly while DOC provoked uncomfortable anxiety in me. I like that you call metocin "metocin." Sounds like "medicine." I like to call it "Colour" specifically with the "u" whether you're in the U.S. or not. There's also it's acetoxy analogue Comet, aka: Azomet, aka: 4-AcO-MET. All of these drugs, and Allylescaline I like to describe as being "outrospective" rather than "introspective".

Great report; thank you for sharing.
That sucks that DOC caused you anxiety like that. I've only done it twice in low doses years ago but I enjoyed both times. I'm eager to try it again. I have a few psychedelic amphetamines that I need to explore. It's hard to find the time and they make me nervous to try after my DOM experience. Haven't touched one since and that experience was years ago. 4-ACO-MET I'm not a huge fan of, which is strange because I love 4-HO-MET. I find the acetoxy to have a harsher body load, less of a headspace while feeling more "intense" without providing any benefit over 4-HO-MET. I might need to revisit. I do agree that the three that you listed as being "outrospective"
 
That's good to know. I mean 2CB and 2CE always lasted as long as they should for me. DOM lasted FOREVER though. My friend took twice as much as me and didn't trip as long. My DOM trip was traumatic though so maybe it just got me stuck in that headspace for a while. I was definitely having visuals 36 hours later though. I also found Allylescaline to be pro-sexual. I actually found it made me more horny than 2CB does. I've never done either with a partner, just my friend. I imagine 2CB would be more of an aphrodisiac with a partner than without. The body high of allylescaline really lends itself towards the erotic. As you said, not quite as erotic as 5-MeO-MiPT. I will definitely be doing 60mg next time. Probably 30mg followed by 30mg half an hour later or so.


That sucks that DOC caused you anxiety like that. I've only done it twice in low doses years ago but I enjoyed both times. I'm eager to try it again. I have a few psychedelic amphetamines that I need to explore. It's hard to find the time and they make me nervous to try after my DOM experience. Haven't touched one since and that experience was years ago. 4-ACO-MET I'm not a huge fan of, which is strange because I love 4-HO-MET. I find the acetoxy to have a harsher body load, less of a headspace while feeling more "intense" without providing any benefit over 4-HO-MET. I might need to revisit. I do agree that the three that you listed as being "outrospective"
4-AcO-MET is a prodrug for 4-HO-MET. I cannot distinguish their effects from one another, but I can distinguish them from, say, 4-AcO-DMT. I feel Psilacetin has more of a pronounced body load and the headspace isn’t quite as friendly at times. Put it to you like this: both shrooms and Psilacetin are fully capable of giving my The Fear, but Colour has been nothing but friendly to my every time I’ve taken it (> two dozen times I’d guess by now).

I’m also a fan of 4-HO-MiPT, 4-HO-EPT, 4-HO-DET, 4-HO-DPT and their AcO analogs. The first two I found were lighter than the last two which have pronounced darker effects. Meaning to say: the former two are outrospective for me and the latter two, more introspective. YMMV.
 
That's good to know. I mean 2CB and 2CE always lasted as long as they should for me. DOM lasted FOREVER though. My friend took twice as much as me and didn't trip as long. My DOM trip was traumatic though so maybe it just got me stuck in that headspace for a while. I was definitely having visuals 36 hours later though.
I've heard quite often about some people having an unexpectedly abnormal duration of action with DOM, also extending beyond 24 h from what is typical known as a normal dose (say 5 mg). There must be something weird going on with the stuff. I need to revisit it sometime. Originally I was put off by the mental rewards not making up for the bodily uneasiness, but Shulgin thought highly of the stuff (to the point of literally supplying the Haight-Ashbury with DOM, yes, the freakouts were with his material, but I doubt he wanted Owsley Stanley et al to supply it so recklessly!). I think I missed something, and looking bad, set/setting were far from optimal. I'm glad that it had the typical duration for me in the one trial and for once it may be a good thing that I find myself at the lower end of duration comparing to notes in PiHKAL...
 
Originally I was put off by the mental rewards not making up for the bodily uneasiness,
DOM's body load is easy to deal with, in my opinion, especially compared to DOB, DOI, or DOC. I think this is the reason DOM made Shulgin's "Magical Half Dozen" phenethylamines list along with Mescaline, 2C-B, 2C-E, 2C-T-2, and 2C-T-7. It's because, of all the DOx drugs, DOM is probably the easiest going one I've tried so far, and it carries a psychedelic euphoria that is hard to put into words.

but Shulgin thought highly of the stuff (to the point of literally supplying the Haight-Ashbury with DOM, yes, the freakouts were with his material, but I doubt he wanted Owsley Stanley et al to supply it so recklessly!).
Whoa, hold up there. Dr. Alexander Shulgin did *not* supply the Haight-Ashbury with DOM. After inventing that human-safe pesticide for Dow, and bc Dow made a fortune on that insecticide, Shulgin had carte blanch to study whatever he wished, and that was psychedelic drugs. He published papers, and this included a 1963 paper on his findings with the potent psychedelic amphetamine, DOM. In 1967 Owsley Stanley and Tim Scully distributed pills containing 20 mg of DOM which they called STP for "serenity, tranquility, peace", ironically enough. The dose of one tablet was already too high, and bc it takes 4 hrs to kick in, many people thought they were weak and they dosed a second pill, which was a mistake they realized later once it all caught up to them. ER visits saw a spike in activity related to this.

Eventually it was uncovered that the chemists had been inspired to make the compound based on the paper Shulgin had published, and due to the negative press it had garnered, Dow ultimately let Shulgin go. In interviews, Shulgin talked about how much it bothered him that this had occurred. Similarly, Dr. David Nichols expressed having a heavy heart after learning that 25x-NBOMe-class drugs had lead to several fatalities about a decade ago, these being compounds discovered and reported on by his group at Purdue University.

I think I missed something, and looking bad, set/setting were far from optimal. I'm glad that it had the typical duration for me in the one trial and for once it may be a good thing that I find myself at the lower end of duration comparing to notes in PiHKAL...
Yeah it's weird that no one wants a long-lasting psychedelic experience, but at the same time, so many people are scared to fucking death of dimethyltryptamine. I would think DMT would hold more appeal given its brief duration, but it looks like the sweet spot for most people is 4 - 6 hours. This is why I frequently suggest 2C-B, Colour, or shrooms to people new to tripping who are looking for a lighter experience.
 
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DOM's body load is easy to deal with, in my opinion, especially compared to DOB, DOI, or DOC. I think this is the reason DOM made Shulgin's "Magical Half Dozen" phenethylamines list along with Mescaline, 2C-B, 2C-E, 2C-T-2, and 2C-T-7. It's because, of all the DOx drugs, DOM is probably the easiest going one I've tried so far, and it carries a psychedelic euphoria that is hard to put into words.


Whoa, hold up there. Dr. Alexander Shulgin did *not* supply the Haight-Ashbury with DOM. After inventing that human-safe pesticide for Dole, and bc Dole made a fortune on that insecticide, Shulgin had carte blanc to study whatever he wished, and that was psychedelic drugs. He published papers, and this included a 1963 paper on his findings with the potent psychedelic amphetamine, DOM. In 1967 Owsley Stanley and Tim Scully distributed pills containing 20 mg of DOM which they called STP for "serenity, tranquility, peace", ironically enough. The dose of one tablet was already too high, and bc it takes 4 hrs to kick in, many people thought they were weak and they dosed a second pill, which was a mistake they realized later once it all caught up to them. ER visits saw a spike in activity related to this.


I suggest you read these two publications and get your mind blown. Of course my above statement was a bit hyperbole, but there is good reason to believe that the exact same DOM which materialised on Haight-Ashbury streets first materialised in a flask held in Shulgin's hands...

As for the bodyload of DOM, that was just my experience, but I now suspect the issue was set/setting. I'd surely like to try again one time, perhaps even with just the eutomer. So many drugs, so little time though. Oh, and it's not that the bodyload was unbearable, perhaps equal to 2C-E, just that it wasn't all that much active. In hindsight, this was the typical phenethylamine disapproval - I wasn't welcome at this moment and thus met with blandness, rather than the radiating embrace of phentastic psychedelia.

And when I first tried out DOM, I was also very excited about the idea of a psychedelic lasting the whole day. But since then I had an accident and prefer experiences with an approachable duration. I'd be okay with DOM, but it will be some time before we meet again. But much longer, and it gets hard to squeeze into a day.
 
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Yeah it's weird that no one wants a long-lasting psychedelic experience, but at the same time, so many people are scared to fucking death of dimethyltryptamine. I would think DMT would hold more appeal given its brief duration, but it looks like the sweet spot for most people is 4 - 6 hours. This is why I frequently suggest 2C-B, Colour, or shrooms to people new to tripping who are looking for a lighter experience.

My first ever trip was with ayahuasca containing a quite generous portion of DMT. It took two hours to feel any DMT-type effects at all, and then I was completely overwhelmed. After two more hours, it was pretty much all done, but those two hours felt subjectively like months. I've never had a phenethylamine experience with anywhere near that kind of time dilation. I haven't had an DOX before. My longest single dose experience was around 18 hours with a strong dose of mescaline. It was quite incredible, but it did not feel anywhere near as long as that first aya trip.
 
I suggest you read these two publications and get your mind blown. Of course my above statement was a bit hyperbole, but there is good reason to believe that the exact same DOM which materialised on Haight-Ashbury streets first materialised in a flask held in Shulgin's hands...

Thanks a lot for posting those articles. By coincidence I read the 2nd article a couple days ago. Hadn't known about the 1st one until I saw your link just a little while ago. It answers questions the first article raised, and creates more questions. The entire history of DOM is murky and odd, the stories illogical and contradictory in places. I've noticed it before but these two stories crystalizes it in my mind.

The biggest contradiction is why, right? It doesn't make sense for Shulgin to leak the info, and despite the articles and the media today portraying him as a revolutionary and a cowboy, that's not what he was. He was a very cautious man and spent most of his life unknown until he wrote the books. A bit of Devil's Advocacy because our popular view of the man was only one facet of his life.

He wasn't a snitch but he worked with the cops identifying samples they collected in the process of sending underground chemists to prison. Identifying those samples, especially back then, was an important work that saves lives but despite the Birkenstocks and the fantastic sense of humor technically he was part of the establishment. He was working to have the drugs accepted and used by the establishment.

He wasn't going to Love-ins or Greateful Dead shows, he was working with therapists creating medicine to repair damaged minds and damaged souls. That was his greatest life's work and it seems strange he would do anything to risk that or add to the growing terror over psychedelics by aiding people who were making his work more difficult not easier. Especially someone like Stanley. Might he have identified samples of Sand's and Scully's work in the process of sending him to prison?

I think it was Ann who changed him and his image. Added pizzaz and color to a hardworking obsessed chemist, they weren't married until the early '80s. After his most creative greatest period. He said that once he had tested a drug and was satisfied he never used it again. At that point he was very old, maybe a little senile, but he sounded sincere. Famous and important people always become more and more distorted over time. The image created by their admirers and books and opponents and media is never who a human being really was.

This 'sample' story reeled me end and I ended up fact checking and writing a lot on this subject, much more than the simple reply I was going to write. If anyone finds any factual errors or better sources please correct me if I'm wrong. I keep editing and adding more, reading some more, and having to edit more. It's becoming an article in it's own right when originally I was looking for answers to a couple questions I had about the effects of DOM.

Shulgin and Stanley have left the temporal plane, these events happened 60 years ago, there's only so much that's verifiable. The rest is speculation which is a bit frutrating. I can't say I'm emotionally or intellectually invested into what happened and what the truth really was. It is a fascinating event because it impacted the lives of a huge number of people, added to the growing moral panic over drugs that was gripping Americans.

It had an impact on how the US and The World percieve and use psychedelic substances. However it isn't that important to a larger number of people and none of us were there and The Drug Wars were already starting. When will the public acknowledge the Drug War is Civil War 2 fought between Americans? Why haven't I gotten my medals and my Purple Heart?

@xdrc , Scully claims in 2020 when he was writing his tell-all life of a mysterious genius chemist-book that all the DOM distributed at the Summer Solstice party in 1967 was given to him by Shulgin. He claims he was personally given 50 grams of DOM and a few notecards containing clues to the synthesis of DOM. Scully, being the genius he was, was told by Stanley to figure out how to make the stuff.

He had it puzzled out by April and managed to crank out 2 lbs by June but he wasn't sure he did it correctly. So he distributed Shulgin's instead. Sands, Stanley, and Shulgin did not confirm this story and Scully stuck to a different version of events until after they were dead. Unfortunately or conviniently.

If Scully had been given 50 grams by Shulgin quite a bit would have been used on re-creating, testing, and distributing samples DOM. If they were making 20 mg doses that's 50000 mg divided into 2500 doses. Yet Scully, in a 2005 interview, claims he handed out 5000 20 mg doses at the Golden Gate solstice party for free. Out of the 2 lbs he made.

When they observed that was too strong a dose they switched to 10 mg tablets. However if they'd had 50 grams of DOM prior how would they not expect the Freak Out? They would have tested the 20 mg tablets first. Another sources quotes Scully as saying hardly any 20 mg tablets were made and that most were 10 mg. If they made them 10 mg that's 5000 doses. A Shulgin dose of 4 mg would make for 12,400 doses. Now Scully claims there were never any 20 mg tablets, they were all 10 mg.

I may be picking on ole' scully but the timeline is also contradictory. With that much DOM I'd expect some testers would have experienced amphetamine psychosis between February and June. The original story was that they were in such a rush to get the batch done in time they didn't bother to do enough testing. The stories place the most likely time of the leak at or around the only public presentation Shulgin gave on DOM. This was January 25th, 1967.

Seems strange they'd need to go to the elaborate trouble of attending a public event when Shulgin could have met them in a deserted parking garage like Deep Throat. There were plenty of other people who knew of DOMs existance it had been discovered and tested by at least 1964. Stanley commenced testing in early April 1967. The FDA had enountered DOM on the east and west coasts by April 1967. All from that original 50 gram sample!

A friend of his dosed May 4th, 20 mg. He spent 3 days living in a world made of butterscotch. When he gave his trip report Stanley was satisfied. He liked people tripping their balls off. It was likely his idea to make the dose 20 mg. An underground newpaper in their April 28th to May 4th printing mentioned that STP lasts four times longer than LSD. On June 7th there was a story in the San Francisco Chronicle.

This got way too long, I invested way too much in something no one will read anyway. My take is that Scully is misremembering things, getting dates and facts confused because he's really old. Or he wants his book to sell and Shulgin is hot right now. We all owe him a debt of gratitude, I hope his book sells well but I doubt the ghost writer and editors will try to stick to facts. I'm certain if Shulgin gave them 50 grams of DOM Stanley would have mentioned it. He enjoyed his drink and coke and liked to tell stories.

I'm surprised the writers of the articles, who are people I respect and like, weren't more critical. I'm getting a headache from looking at dates and contradictions. The story that Shulgin gifted the recipe of DOM to Stanley has been around for so long nobody doubts it. I've always thought it didn't sound right so I'm biased, but I distrust everything. I'd trust Shulgin's word over the others but he said it leaked because of 'shady people at his public presentation on it.' To me that's a shady answer.

There is evidence of Shulgin being showy and spreading his knowledge around, in his books. A different time though. I think it's just as likely someone else leaked it or Shulgin may have asked someone to tip them off. Or maybe multiple chemists were tipped off, that's why there was so much of it on the streets on the east and west coast by May 1967. Or maybe that 50 grams went a long way. I imagine if someone followed the threads, sources, Shulgin's notes, and Dow's records they could find the truth but I've decided I don't care enough..

If you somehow read all this bullshit (or you had the sense to skip down to the music) your reward is a great song about the Summer of Love and STP. This version is called 'The STP song'. By the hippy band that hated the Summer of Love. The Holy Modal Rounders!

This song sounds old timey and contains some old timey terms. The ones I can think of. Figure the rest out yourself.

douchie=heroin
bang the gong=smoking opium
take a whiff=insuffulate up the nose
takeoff king=ripping people off with bunk substances
Novacop=A concept from the Nova Trilogy created by William S Burroughs "The police are focused on "first-order addictions of junkies, homosexuals, dissidents, and criminals; if these criminals vanish, the police must create more in order to justify their own survival." The Nova Police depend upon the Nova Criminals for existence; if the criminals cease to exist, so do the police.
This makes the addictive substance, the user, the police, the courts, viruses that must continue replicating and spreading to new hosts to survive. The nova cops travel the galaxy, finding new substances they can outlaw in order to create new nova criminals to arrest. Just don't blame it on the bossanova.

They are the first band to use the term psychedelic in a lyric, in 1964.

They were the first jam band.

The 1st band that openly played high, albeit sometimes poorly

Their only 2 songs you might know are 'Do You Want to be a Bird' from the Easy Rounder soundtrack and 'I like boobs a lot' that was a novelty hit on Dr Demento's radio program in the 70s.


There are people that run, not walk, away when you put one of their records on. They're used to clear out bars at closing time. They were ahead of their time.



This is the 'psychedelic verson' of the song. The producer was too high on speed so he cut the song in half and changed it's name. It sounds crazy because they were all high on meth. Except possibly Sam Shepard. This is the complete song, from another album that's a bit more normal and listenable but not nearly as fun because you should hear all the lyrics.

 
The biggest contradiction is why, right? It doesn't make sense for Shulgin to leak the info, and despite the articles and the media today portraying him as a revolutionary and a cowboy, that's not what he was. He was a very cautious man and spent most of his life unknown until he wrote the books. A bit of Devil's Advocacy because our popular view of the man was only one facet of his life.
Many people who worked closely with Shulgin said he was a bit lax with following all the rules. We also know he interacted with clandestine chemists of all sorts via mail. If you search through his pharmacology notebooks on Erowid, in some cases you find information sent to him by letter, with various credibility. Who knows if the DOM by Shulgin really landed on the streets... But unless they lied, I doubt one could forget getting a fucking 50 g sample of DOM. And why would anyone give a couple underground LSD chemists such a huge amount without expecting it would spill to the streets? Owsley Stanley also confirmed the DOM story when he was still alive, but omitted the existence of the sample. In one of the interviews with the Shulgin's, they say they skidded the law extremely close at times and almost burned themselves in the sun. And then there is the interview with Robert Oberlender and Hamilton Morris, where Oberlender says they (Nichols laboratory) got the precursors for lysergamide chemistry from Shulgin, but then stops in his tracks when he wanted to add some details about how Shulgin got them... Just some conspiracy theory.
 
Interesting discussion y'all. I haven't thought much about the old scenes for years now, been too caught up in life.

Truly different times.
 
I suggest you read these two publications and get your mind blown.
What part was supposed to blow my mind? The trouble with DOM was the dose the tablets were pressed with, not necessarily the drug itself. I was aware that Owsley and the Boys got the synthesis (note: not a "recipe") from Shulgin, although I had heard nothing about the 50 gram sample he supposedly gifted them. If this is the case, and if assume that the majority of DOM pills contained ~10 mg and not ~20 mg, as probably only the first small batch or two may have contained, then that 50 grams should've produced 5,000 doses @ 10 mg, and in reality should've produced 10K - 20 K doses instead. Regardless, this would explain why it was given away for free.

Shulgin had other people who were helping him out with laboratory work, such as Darrell Lemaire, for example. Shulgin was the only one with the special license from the Bureau of Narcotics and then later the DEA, so all the credit for this work needed to go to Shulgin to keep law enforcement off of everyone else. If Shulgin really gave Owsley 50 g of DOM, I tink there's a decent chance it in fact came from Lemaire's lab in the hidden mountain cave Hamilton Morris explores with Casey Hardison in Hamilton's Pharmacopeia S1E6.

@Kmas – Shulgin's involvement wouldn't surprise me, but I doubt seriously he made the decision to dose each pill so high. That's an Owsley move all day long, not so much a Shulgin move. So it's more like, if anything, Shulgin may have supplied and help to set up Owsley, but in my best conjecture, I'm willing to bet he was not involved in the dosing side of things, if he was involved in any of the planning at all. Seems more likely that would've been entirely left to Owsley.

If you somehow read all this bullshit
I did. You managed to keep me interested the whole time 😂
 
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