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Party Users and Home Users

I completely understand what you mean, man. When I said that home drug users may more likely be addicts, I knew it was purely speculation and NOT based in fact. Just a thought. And by no means am I saying that one group of drug users are better than the other, although I will say I usually prefer the company of those who fit the criteria of home drug users. I just find that I can relate to introverted drug users more easily than their party-going counterparts.
As far as whether someone is an addict, I do agree that it depends more on how much self-control they have, rather than how they use.

I can't help but wonder, of the two (using drugs while partying or using drugs alone) which do you find more sensible? If either at all. It does depend heavily upon the individual, but this entire thread really is based on generalizations. Nonetheless I think we can learn from a discussion like this.

Instead of saying:

"And by no means am I saying that one group of drug users are better than the other, although I will say I usually prefer the company of those who fit the criteria of home drug users."

You can just say:

"I'm not saying one group of drug users is better than the other, but I usually prefer the company of home drug users."

Using expressions like "by no means" and "fit the criteria" can only make you appear smarter to dumb people. What it does in fact is it shows you can't write a proper sentence. I know where you're going with this. It's not going to work. I've seen your kind before, you aren't that witty.

Being in society does not make you better or more "sensible" in any way. Get over it...or over your sensitivity, whatever you call it.
 
What's with the hostile attitude man?
Surely this isn't such a contentious issue that you need to be so patronising and aggressive.
ksa said:
I know where you're going with this. It's not going to work.
Indeed.
 
Instead of saying:

"And by no means am I saying that one group of drug users are better than the other, although I will say I usually prefer the company of those who fit the criteria of home drug users."

You can just say:

"I'm not saying one group of drug users is better than the other, but I usually prefer the company of home drug users."

Using expressions like "by no means" and "fit the criteria" can only make you appear smarter to dumb people. What it does in fact is it shows you can't write a proper sentence. I know where you're going with this. It's not going to work. I've seen your kind before, you aren't that witty.

Actually, that's just how I fucking talk. How about instead of nit-picking at the way I convey a message, you focus on your own thoughts, and perhaps attempt to add to the conversation.

Being in society does not make you better or more "sensible" in any way. Get over it...or over your sensitivity, whatever you call it.

Please refresh my memory, when exactly did I claim that "being in society" was more sensible? Because that is not my belief. I understand wanting to escape society. That's why I use drugs.
 
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I play in rock'n'roll bands, i guess you'd say. But i make all kinds of music, really - play a range of instruments and enjoy fooling around with synths and drum machines, though my preferred instrument is guitar.
Stims can be really great for creating music - or you can get overly focused on the finer points and end up not creating anything of value.
In the studio, doing take after take of existing songs all day long, it can be really good to be a bit pepped up. I usually take weed and amphetamine into the studio. Some people take booze, but i never found that comparible with playing well - it seems to mess with my coordination and makes me clumsy.

Sorry for the double post, but I don't feel like editing my post towards Ksa.

ANYWAY, that's really cool that you play music. Is that your full-time gig or just a project? I've recently been learning to play the guitar, as my dad has played for years and it's piqued my interest. And I've actually been looking to get to amps for the sole purpose of increasing my focus on learning the instrument. And for recreational purposes, as well. ;) I haven't done stimulants (other than coffee) in so long.
 
Please refresh my memory, when exactly did I claim that "being in society" was more sensible? Because that is not my belief. I understand wanting to escape society. That's why I use drugs.

Ya right, if that was your belief you would have related to me long before...AND to Boku as well. Nobody here will encourage your social drug use, this is a harm reduction site. Stop lying and get over yourself.
 
Ya right, if that was your belief you would have related with me long before...AND with Boku as well. Nobody here will encourage your social drug use, this is a harm reduction site. Stop lying and get over yourself.

You have obviously not been understanding (or even reading) what I'm saying. I've already stated I'm more of an introvert, don't use harm reduction as an effort to get others to agree with you; you are in the wrong here, not me. I do not consider myself to be a social drug user. I'm also not a liar. In my previous post, I refused to resort to name-calling, but you are just making that more and more tempting, and easy.

I knew I wasn't going to get along with you when you said that your only interests are in physical pleasures. That's incredibly shallow.
 
You have obviously not been understanding (or even reading) what I'm saying. I've already stated I'm more of an introvert, don't use harm reduction as an effort to get others to agree with you; you are in the wrong here, not me. I do not consider myself to be a social drug user. I'm also not a liar. In my previous post, I refused to resort to name-calling, but you are just making that more and more tempting, and easy.

I knew I wasn't going to get along with you when you said that your only interests are in physical pleasures. That's incredibly shallow.

I don't consider sex to be a physical experience, but a self-uplifting spiritual experience. If you discard sex as being physical you have not experienced its full extent.

That's like saying that hanging out with your friends is a physical experience because all you do is give each-other fives and other hand gestures. Conclusion:

What I do, what I am is not special. What you do and what you are is not special. Special is a myth. Get over yourself.
 
You know what. Fuck this. This thread has been totally undermined and I will not even put forth the effort to save it. It's obviously pointless. Mods you can go ahead and close this unless you want to discuss further.
 
^ don't let trolls get to you brother.
It is actually an interesting thread - a few bitter sounding posts needn't reflect on the wider (and more interesting discussion at hand :)
If you feel a post is abusive, you can always report it to bring it to the attention of mods in this section.
Just hit the button at the top righthand side of any posts you feel are inappropriate (the triangle with an exclamation mark in it).
ANYWAY, that's really cool that you play music. Is that your full-time gig or just a project? I've recently been learning to play the guitar, as my dad has played for years and it's piqued my interest. And I've actually been looking to get to amps for the sole purpose of increasing my focus on learning the instrument. And for recreational purposes, as well. ;) I haven't done stimulants (other than coffee) in so long.
I don't make a living off playing music or anything - but it is certainly a fairly consuming part of my existence.
The band i've done the most with - recording, gigging and touring - is on something of a hiatus at the moment because we're all living in different parts of the world, but i'm about to make a record with another band i've been playing with for the last year or so.
It's addictive, man!
Given that we've discussed music before - i really can't recommend learning an instrument enough.

It is like having a new language to converse with. When i play music with my friends - whether we're writing a song, rehearsing something that we've already composed, or simply jamming - it is like we are having a discussion - but instead of words and sentences, we use tones, rhythms, melodies and aural textures.
As the "conversation" develops, the musical compositions shift, the volume and structure builds and descends according to our (unspoken) communication.
To me it is a really wonderful ability to have and to share. There is a BB King quote that goes along the lines of "the great thing about learning something is that nobody can take it away from you" - which i think is very true.
Nl
Some people use drugs as a shortcut to this sort of transcendent social interaction; just look at the way empathogens like MDMA are used to build a sense of connection and togetherness. What i get from music is more powerful than that :)

Drugs can be incorporated into it as well - but are by no means essential or obligatory.
Some of the experiences i've had with mushrooms in band situations have been too bizarre to explain without sounding like some crazy hippie.
I've always been very sceptical about concepts such as telepathy and ESP - but there have been times when i've been playing music and everyone in the room has picked up on a cue to change musical direction that has had no external or explicit guidance from anyone - we're just so syncronised that the music flows and shifts like something natural and organic.
And playing music onstage is - for me - a greater high than any drug experience i have ever had (and let's just say i have a wide experience in that regard). Nothing else comes close to the sort of energy and mental clarity that performing live brings me; it's hard to explain how it manages to affect me so much.

To deny the power and importance of human social interraction is to deny a certain reality that we are all part of.
I know as well as anyone the pleasures of solitude!
But i'm not so naive that i think i can be happy or survive in this world alone.
Getting somewhat back to the original point here, it seems to me that we can use drugs to enhance our social experiences or our time spent alone.
Self-gratification has its place, but without the social structures that allow us to survive in the world we find ourselves in - we have very little to work with. Even the most fiendish amphetamine-addled auto eroticism enthusiast is reliant on social interactions to supply them with the the privacy, the drugs, the computer, the porn - to indulge themselves in this way.
As much drugs can enhance reality, they can also help sustain fantasies that have little basis in reality - such as the idea that locking oneself away and getting wasted is somehow living in a vacuum of solitude. It may feel that way, but it's an illusion.

It's sad to see how isolation can distort people and create a sort of bitterness about social interaction - i do understand it, but i don't think it is healthy or particularly realistic. I value my alone time, but i don't define myself by it or see it as anything more than a component of the wider, richer life i try to live.
 
Pibolar, I agree with your initial premise. I would add that in my opinion there are two kinds of addicts, those who like to use alone for ease of experience and those who will not hesitate to use socially if given the opportunity. The second kind is usually younger I think, or more generally extroverted (perhaps with a lucky amount of fellow addicts to use with).

There are definitely outliers, such as weekend warrior addicts who don't like to use alone because it infringes on their conscience, yet they will jump at the chance to split a purchase of harder drugs. H, coke, pills, ecstacy, ketamine, etc.
 
Alright, perhaps there is hope for this thread. Thank you for the second revival. lol

The band i've done the most with - recording, gigging and touring - is on something of a hiatus at the moment because we're all living in different parts of the world, but i'm about to make a record with another band i've been playing with for the last year or so.
It's addictive, man!
Given that we've discussed music before - i really can't recommend learning an instrument enough.

That's great to hear that you're working on a record. Must be like a dream come true! Haha. Honestly, all I've been wanting to do with my time recently is play music. I've been playing the drums for a couple years, guitar seemed like a logical next step. And yes, it is addictive, I think it's very productive, too; and deciding to learn an instrument ended up being one of the best decisions I've made.


It is like having a new language to converse with. When i play music with my friends - whether we're writing a song, rehearsing something that we've already composed, or simply jamming - it is like we are having a discussion - but instead of words and sentences, we use tones, rhythms, melodies and aural textures.
As the "conversation" develops, the musical compositions shift, the volume and structure builds and descends according to our (unspoken) communication.
To me it is a really wonderful ability to have and to share. There is a BB King quote that goes along the lines of "the great thing about learning something is that nobody can take it away from you" - which i think is very true.

Comparing music to language, I'd say, is a spot-on analogy. Music is an incredibly effective communicator, and finding someone who shares your passion for conversation is one of the most rewarding experiences. I whole-heartedly agree with the King quote as well. Knowledge is power, information makes us stronger.

As far as the rest of your post, and how no one person can be entirely separate from their society, I find that a very interesting point. I, too, can sympathize with the desire to be something of a hermit. But I love conversation far too much to isolate myself to such a drastic extent. And yes, being alone for that long can, and probably would, distort most peoples' minds if they attempted it. Human beings are naturally social creatures. BUT, there are people who are capable of enduring that sort of solitude happily.

Self-gratification has its place, but without the social structures that allow us to survive in the world we find ourselves in - we have very little to work with. Even the most fiendish amphetamine-addled auto eroticism enthusiast is reliant on social interactions to supply them with the the privacy, the drugs, the computer, the porn - to indulge themselves in this way.

Yeah I get what you're saying. Despite how far they attempt to distance themselves from the social conventions they were born into, they still rely on them to an extent. Which leads me to a thought that I once had, and had written down on some personal files. I wondered if, given my general distaste for what our society has degenerated into, would I truly be satisfied if our community was set up in a different way? Perhaps a more ideal way, if so, would I still maintain my rebellious attitude? Is it me? Or would I actually be content. I'm not sure if that has a whole lot to do with the point you made, but I couldn't help but think of it when I read this piece of your post. And I'm really tired, haha.

Perhaps to be truly free is to not rely on society, and as a result, not relying on physical pleasures to feel happy. Since society is what grants us these pleasures. This just turned a little more philosophical than I expected, but that could be a good thing. Tossing around ideas.

Pibolar, I agree with your initial premise. I would add that in my opinion there are two kinds of addicts, those who like to use alone for ease of experience and those who will not hesitate to use socially if given the opportunity. The second kind is usually younger I think, or more generally extroverted (perhaps with a lucky amount of fellow addicts to use with).

There are definitely outliers, such as weekend warrior addicts who don't like to use alone because it infringes on their conscience, yet they will jump at the chance to split a purchase of harder drugs. H, coke, pills, ecstacy, ketamine, etc.

Yeah I agree that the latter group does tend to be younger and extroverted. I used to go out and party when I was younger, but as I grew older I realized it wasn't really my scene. I wasn't getting anything I wanted out of it. Keep in mind, though, I'm still pretty young (19).

Most of the hardcore addicts that I've met in my life, fall under the category of home users, and are for the most part older. I live in the Midwest so I've met my fair share of tweakers.
 
Self-gratification has its place, but without the social structures that allow us to survive in the world we find ourselves in - we have very little to work with. Even the most fiendish amphetamine-addled auto eroticism enthusiast is reliant on social interactions to supply them with the the privacy, the drugs, the computer, the porn - to indulge themselves in this way.
As much drugs can enhance reality, they can also help sustain fantasies that have little basis in reality - such as the idea that locking oneself away and getting wasted is somehow living in a vacuum of solitude. It may feel that way, but it's an illusion.

It's sad to see how isolation can distort people and create a sort of bitterness about social interaction - i do understand it, but i don't think it is healthy or particularly realistic. I value my alone time, but i don't define myself by it or see it as anything more than a component of the wider, richer life i try to live.

And without society the addict would not have a computer, porn and privacy. Well, you seem to forget that without planet Jupiter's gravitational pull, such huge asteroids would have hit the Earth, that no life would have been possible and of course, that includes me stroking my dick in my bedroom.

I never seen a single person here thanking planet Jupiter for providing them with the necessary conditions for them to have life, for them to feel joy and be human. But, you will demand that we all thank you(society) for building an internet connected roof on top of our heads, so that we can masturbate. I'll thank planet Jupiter instead.

And you say drugs sustain fantasies that have no basis in reality, and yet, if I asked you, you couldn't say a word about basis and you couldn't say a word about reality. Sorry, I don't mean to offend anyone guys, it's just my style of debate, nothing personal ^_^
 
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Sorry, I don't mean to offend anyone guys, it's just my style of debate, nothing personal ^_^

That ain't debate, homeboy. Most of your posts that I've read have many lacking logical links and this one is no exception.
 
You know what. Fuck this. This thread has been totally undermined and I will not even put forth the effort to save it. It's obviously pointless. Mods you can go ahead and close this unless you want to discuss further.
PM felonious_monk or tryptamino and ask him to remove the off-topic babbling. Just say which posts you want removed. I reckon they will do it if you ask. I would if I was still a DC mod.. :D

OT: I definitely belong in the 'solo-user' category. There's only a select few people that I enjoy(/don't mind) having around when I'm using.

If I have a social engagement I will use beforehand (opiates and benzos) but not in excessive amounts. I won't show up fucked up out of my mind. That's just disrespectful towards the people I'm meeting with and just plain not cool as it can be shocking to others to be high as a kite during a 'normal' social event. Nor is it fun for them as I would be worthless company.

The goal of using beforehand is mainly just to not be dopesick and anxious, but I have to say opiates (not in excess) definitely facilitate social interactions a lot and make them more enjoyable for me as it will take away some of my inhibitions (benzos do too) and just generally put me in a better mood which makes me more fun to be around.

You might be right about 'stay-at-home-users' falling more into the addict category. It's definitely true for myself and a few others I know. I do however know a few true addicts who use around people more often than not, which brings me to the next subject; DOC.

I have noticed most opiate users/addicts prefer using by themselves while, say, stim users, 'party-drug-users' or just plain ole' pot smokers are more likely to be 'social' users who use around friends more often than by themselves. My guess is people who prefer downers like opiates and/or benzos are more likely to have anxiety issues, which could be an explanation for why these people prefer using alone.

So yeah, in short; I fit in the category of a 'solo-user', I definitely consider myself an addict and my DOC is oxycodone. Or I guess opiates/oids in general, but so far oxycodone is my favorite. Haven't tried oxy/hydromorphone or hydrocodone as only one of the morphones is used/available in Belgium (I forget which, palladone is the brand name IIRC) and they are almost impossible to get. Hydrocodone isn't used in Belgium either. I am also a daily benzo user.

So pretty much downers are my thing. I am an anxious person which explains why I like downers so much, as well as why I prefer using by myself.

Phew, that turned out longer than intended.. I'm typing this on my phone while nodding. So it took me FOREVER to type this, lol.

Anyway, keep the thread alive Pibolar my man. I'd hate to see it die as it's such an interesting topic!

Gonna go enjoy my nod now. Catch ya later guys! =D
 
ksa said:
And you say drugs sustain fantasies that have no basis in reality, and yet, if I asked you, you couldn't say a word about basis and you couldn't say a word about reality. Sorry, I don't mean to offend anyone guys, it's just my style of debate, nothing personal ^_^
Eh?
I'm certainly not offended - but i don't understand what you are trying to "debate" here. Really, i don't see any sense in your Jupiter analogy whatsoever.
If you are honestly trying to rebut the point i was making about social interactions being inevitable on some level, you might want to consider the causal relationship i was referring to.

As "style of debate" go, yours could maybe use some work.
Formulating a convincing argument supporting a solipsistic worldview takes a certain amount of skill, but if you're really only working to convince yourself (as the case may be), perhaps you're not setting your standards high enough :)

Maybe if you go live in a grass hut in an area of naturally occurring [insert psychoactive plant drug] and live hand-to-mouth, hunter gatherer style - then i'll believe it is possible to be a truly solitary drug user.
But as we are discussing this via a vast network of social and technological coopoeration, i have my doubts...
Or - more specifically - that it is possible for anyone to completely dismiss human interaction in any way of life.

Even if you sponge off your parents for food, shelter, money, drugs or whatever, you're still a part of a system and a society that makes that possible.
 
PM felonious_monk or tryptamino and ask him to remove the off-topic babbling. Just say which posts you want removed. I reckon they will do it if you ask. I would if I was still a DC mod.. :D

I'll refrain from doing that for now. I wasn't offended by anything said, just annoyed. I'd prefer Ksa's posts stay anyway, as a reference point so other users can see he's a troll.

You might be right about 'stay-at-home-users' falling more into the addict category. It's definitely true for myself and a few others I know. I do however know a few true addicts who use around people more often than not, which brings me to the next subject; DOC.

I have noticed most opiate users/addicts prefer using by themselves while, say, stim users, 'party-drug-users' or just plain ole' pot smokers are more likely to be 'social' users who use around friends more often than by themselves. My guess is people who prefer downers like opiates and/or benzos are more likely to have anxiety issues, which could be an explanation for why these people prefer using alone.

Good observation. I've seen lots of opiate addicts stick to themselves as well. But then again, I've seen lots of tweakers that use alone or just with close friends/family members; keep in mind, though, that these are hardcore users who have been using for years, and it's visually apparent. They probably realize this and it may discourage them from engaging is social activities. Which leads me to think that more younger users may begin doing drugs socially, but those that get addicted over time, may turn more to home using.

As far as the anxiety being a reason for using alone, that does make a lot of sense, and is probably the main reason that I prefer to be alone unless I'm using uppers (which is quite seldom); and even then I would probably rather be with a small circle of close friends. I think a lot of the people I know who are addicted to downers, tend to be naturally more shy than those who use uppers. Although, there are probably also people who use stimulants to treat anxiety as well, since amphetamines and such make it so much easier to socialize (for many people), and end up getting addicted.

Anyway, keep the thread alive Pibolar my man. I'd hate to see it die as it's such an interesting topic!

Thanks man, the thread shall live on.
 
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Great post P2C, I pretty much agree with what you and Pibolar (what a name!) said. I think the tendency to use alone makes the person much more prone to dependence than the party user, because we are a lot more often alone than at parties and pretty much every evening before bed can become a time to "unwind", as is the case with me. I'm almost a complete lone user, including psychedelics (when I did them, and I did them in high doses), with the only exception possibly being alcohol - I will often drink at bars. However, as P2C, I will often take my medicine before heading out to a meeting or visiting someone, but in reasonable quantities so as not to be blatantly obvious; I absolutely hate to be a liability.

I don't know if you're doing some kind of statistics, but my DOC is opioids in general, and downers more in general. I will drink like a fish if no opioids are present and as of lately, am not that afraid of benzos anymore. I don't take stims, except caffeine, at all.

The thread poses an interesting question, so of course keep it up man. Don't let the idiot, who needs to learn some communication skills and logic, put you down.
 
Space, when you see a beautiful flower growing, do you rip it off and yell "shame on you for sponging off the land!"? For something beautiful to occur, support is required. I am not denying that support, I am simply saying that you shouldn't be denying the beautiful because of its support requiring nature. The examples are endless, do you look at a beautiful 100lb woman as useless or sponging on her husband because she can't carry 60lb luggage? Be serious...

When someone uses drugs, sure, support is required...and as abominable as it might look from the exterior, in the interior, something beautiful happens. Sure, there are some prices to pay, some less ethical than others but...you know...if you wana make an omelette you gotta break some eggs.

I can't believe I'm teaching you this, you're a mod on a drug forum, this is getting embarrassing...
 
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