Palestine discussion

[Electrum1]

Two kindergarten-age boys were shot at a Seventh-Day Adventist Christian school in California on Wednesday by a man with a lengthy criminal and mental health history claiming to be taking revenge of American involvement with a supposed Gaza "genocide" and attacks on Yemen, according to a Thursday Butte County Sherriff's office briefing

Two California boys shot at Christian school in revenge for Gaza 'genocide'

Roman Mendez, 6, and Elias Wolford, 5, were in critical but stable condition following the attack on the Feather River School of Seventh-Day Adventists in Palermo by gunman Glenn Litton.

m.jpost.com

 

[arrall]

Why Jews are anti-Israel:

 

[mal3volent]

 

[arrall]

did you just unironically post a triggernometry video or is that a joke?

 

[mal3volent]

Yeah, and here you'll be forced to actually engage with the substance of what he's saying rather than just making a smartass comment and brushing it off. Otherwise you'll just look ignorant and biased.

(Also you can't just slander people as racist and get away with it, ban them, etc.)

So engage with actual ideas and facts, otherwise don't derail the thread.

 

[arrall]

Yeah, and here you'll be forced to actually engage with the substance of what he's saying rather than just making a smartass comment and brushing it off. Otherwise you'll just look ignorant and biased.

(Also you can't just slander people as racist and get away with it, ban them, etc.)

So engage with actual ideas and facts, otherwise don't derail the thread.

Your response seems excessively aggressive and very much in bad faith.

I've spent countless hours over the past year discussing this issue with you, but it feels like you rarely even bother to read my posts or spend even 2-5 minutes watching the videos I link.

CEPS is unfortunately just an echo chamber at this point, and I can spend 30-60 minutes writing a response only for people to either ignore every word I write or go into a rage if I disprove their opinions (e.g. Snafu)

And for the record - as you know - I am not the one who banned you and I put a significant amount of time and energy into getting you unbanned from the Discord.

If you genuinely want to hear the opinion of a Jew and former Zionist who lived in Israel for 2 months and volunteered as a junior medic, then I am happy to watch that video and share my opinion.

If you would prefer to just your opinion validated, I can also just stop posting and go discuss this issue with people who are interested in a genuine good faith discussion.

Up to you, I don't mind either way /genuine

 

[mal3volent]

Your response seems excessively aggressive and very much in bad faith.

No, just being honest and direct. You trying to describe it as aggressive and bad faith is just another attempt to deflect from the topic.

I've spent countless hours over the past year discussing this issue with you, but it feels like you rarely even bother to read my posts or spend even 2-5 minutes watching the videos I link.

CEPS is unfortunately just an echo chamber at this point, and I can spend 30-60 minutes writing a response only for people to either ignore every word I write or go into a rage if I disprove their opinions (e.g. Snafu)

Lol. CEPS is an echo chamber but we have two mods on each side of the spectrum. This thread as well as the 270 page previous thread are full of people disagreeing and having dialogue with very little restriction. That's how political forums are supposed to operate.

And for the record - as you know - I am not the one who banned you and I put a significant amount of time and energy into getting you unbanned from the Discord.

Why are you bringing that shit up again? I didn't say anything about that.

If you genuinely want to hear the opinion of a Jew and former Zionist who lived in Israel for 2 months and volunteered as a junior medic, then I am happy to watch that video and share my opinion.

If you would prefer to just your opinion validated, I can also just stop posting and go discuss this issue with people who are interested in a genuine good faith discussion.

Up to you, I don't mind either way /genuine

I literally just got done asking you to engage with the ideas. That means watching the video and then using facts and reason to illustrate which points he makes are wrong and why. They're mostly all points I've been making for months. I just posted because I thought it was fairly well put together into a nice easy digestible summary.

You don't have to if you don't want to. Just like I don't have to watch videos you post, either. But don't just talk shit about me posting a Triggernometry video without putting in any effort to explain why they are a channel who should be automatically discredited. You clearly haven't watched many of their videos or you'd know they're fairly centrist in their opinions on most things. (And always approach things in good faith, talking to people from all sides)

 

[arrall]

Why are you bringing that shit up again? I didn't say anything about that.

I was responding to the comment you made here regarding me "banning" people for having opposing viewpoints:

(Also you can't just slander people as racist and get away with it, ban them, etc.)

I have always argued against doing that, both for political views I agree with (e.g. when people called for pro-Palestine posts to be removed) and those I disagree with (e.g. you)

You clearly haven't watched many of their videos or you'd know they're fairly centrist in their opinions on most things.

I've seen their interviews with Neil Degrasse Tyson and Richard Grannon.
Konstantin is a self-described conservative according to his Wikipedia page, but maybe Wikipedia got that wrong.
From what I've seen, they have quite a right-wing lean and you viewing them a centrist really shows how far right both you and the American Overton window have pivoted.
I do appreciate them talking to left-leaning individuals such as Tyson though, as that is a lot further than most on the right (or many on the left with right-wingers) will go.

I literally just got done asking you to engage with the ideas. That means watching the video and then using facts and reason to illustrate which points he makes are wrong and why. They're mostly all points I've been making for months. I just posted because I thought it was fairly well put together into a nice easy digestible summary.

I'll give it a watch and let you know what I think.

I don't have to watch videos you post, either.

Did you honestly watch the Michael Brooks clip?
What did you think of it?

 

[mal3volent]

Konstantin is a self-described conservative according to his Wikipedia page, but maybe Wikipedia got that wrong.

He describes himself as politically non-binary on his sub stack.

really shows how far right both you and the American Overton window have pivoted.

If I'm so far right surely you could list 4-5 of my most conservative views? Like something other than biological males in female sports? Something related to economic issues perhaps?

I think what you'll find is I have mostly the same views as I did both times I voted for Bernie Sanders.
And even though I disagree with him on a few things, I'd still happily vote for him tomorrow if given the chance.

There are millions of liberals in this country and around the world who are just really tired of all the idpol shit. Some of whom also see the perks of safeguarding the only progressive democracy in the Middle East.

 

[arrall]

If I'm so far right surely you could list 4-5 of my most conservative views? Like something other than biological males in female sports? Something related to economic issues perhaps?

All you really talk about is trans people in sports, drag queens in libraries, and supporting Israel - far-right viewpoints on wedge issues that are designed to distract people like yourself from the actual day-to-day material issues that they are facing and instead get them angry about things that affect less than 10% of Americans or are going on on the other side of the world.
Ranting about Drag Queen Story Hour won't put food on your table, but it will distract you from how light your plate is getting as the American economy continues to decline.

If you have any left-wing views, I haven't seen you post about them in ages.

Bernie is also pretty centrist outside of an American context, and would fit pretty squarely into moderate parties in much of Europe and South America.

 

[Quasimoto]

Great way for this guy to take a step back, remove emotions, and logically gain some perspective. Excellent video.

I think I've used that same analogy about if hypothetical Mexican terrorists did the same thing to the US, how Americans would think differently about the situation overseas.

Also, why don't more Hamas sympathizers just listen to Hamas' own words they have publicly said regarding civilian deaths? Ear muffs. No, the Palestinian public aren't Hamas, but Germans weren't all Nazis either. Nazis needed to be destroyed and removed from power. We didn't stop near the end of the war when they started enlisting innocent children or conscripted unwilling other nationals in their ranks.

 

[mal3volent]

All you really talk about is trans people in sports, drag queens in libraries, and supporting Israel - far-right viewpoints on wedge issues that are designed to distract people like yourself from the actual day-to-day material issues that they are facing and instead get them angry about things that affect less than 10% of Americans or are going on on the other side of the world.
Ranting about Drag Queen Story Hour won't put food on your table, but it will distract you from how light your plate is getting as the American economy continues to decline.

If you have any left-wing views, I haven't seen you post about them in ages.

Bernie is also pretty centrist outside of an American context, and would fit pretty squarely into moderate parties in much of Europe and South America.

Yeah it's funny how you and others downplayed the significance of those issues for years and then turns out they are what won Trump his second term. The Democrats unwillingness to separate themselves from the fringiest corners of their party. They entertained and tolerated ridiculous ideas like white people being inherently racist, defund the police, males in female sports, the sexualization of children etc...

It's documented that the focus on these things rather than on legitimate policy issues was one of the primary reasons undecided voters flipped to Trump in swing states. You blame me for not talking enough about my left leaning opinions, but where was all the talk from Kamala about health care reform? A public option? Minimum wage? Infrastructure? I didn't hear much of that at all.

 

[arrall]

Yeah it's funny how you and others downplayed the significance of those issues for years and then turns out they are what won Trump his second term. The Democrats unwillingness to separate themselves from the fringiest corners of their party. They entertained and tolerated ridiculous ideas like white people being inherently racist, defund the police, males in female sports, the sexualization of children etc...

It's documented that the focus on these things rather than on legitimate policy issues was one of the primary reasons undecided voters flipped to Trump in swing states. You blame me for not talking enough about my left leaning opinions, but where was all the talk from Kamala about health care reform? A public option? Minimum wage? Infrastructure? I didn't hear much of that at all.

I'm not a Kamala supporter at all.
I liked Gary Johnson in 2016. I liked Bernie, Yang, Gravel, & Tulsi in 2020. I would have protest voted for Cornel West this year if I was American.
Kamala moved too far to the right while ignoring economic issues or health care in favour of "well I'm not the orange guy.
She refused to take a stand on trans issues, and campaigned with the Cheney family.
I don't think that those are signs of moving too far to the left.

 

[arrall]

the sexualization of children

I am curious as to why you support Israel when this is such a priority for you politically.
Israel is known to defend pedophiles and protect them from prosecution by allowing them to flee America and other countries to become Israeli citizens.

How Jewish American pedophiles hide from justice in Israel

One woman who helps track suspects down says the little-discussed problem is widespread; "the exact same thing" as the sex abuse scandal in the Catholic Church.

www.cbsnews.com

They have also obviously slaughtered tens of thousands of children in the past year alone, and there are countless documented cases of the IDF sexually abusing teenage civilians.

 

[mal3volent]

I would have protest voted for Cornel West this year if I was American.

She refused to take a stand on trans issues

Yeah that makes a lot of sense.
Protest Kamala, let Trump in. That will do wonders for the trans community.

I am curious as to why you support Israel when this is such a priority for you politically.
Israel is known to defend pedophiles and protect them from prosecution by allowing them to flee America and other countries and become Israeli citizens.

How Jewish American pedophiles hide from justice in Israel

One woman who helps track suspects down says the little-discussed problem is widespread; "the exact same thing" as the sex abuse scandal in the Catholic Church.

www.cbsnews.com

They have also obviously slaughtered tens of thousands of children in the past year alone, and there are countless documented cases of the IDF sexually abusing teenage civilians.

If I refused to express support for any entity that wasn't complicit in some way , I'd just never leave my bedroom and stare at the wall all day.

Having read that entire article though, 80% of it seems to be unrelated to the Israeli government's role in the whole thing. When you finally get to the part that is supposed to explain their complicity , it sounds more like incompetence than an intentional conspiracy to protect pedophiles. They don't do thorough background checks on Jews immigrating into Israel , so they get lost in the system.

The politician they mention by name is ultra orthodox and again, seems to be attributable to political/religious tribalism than overt support for pedos.

Again, you won't find me claiming Israel is some perfect utopian society free of perversions that afflict every other country on earth.

I think this touches more on a broader issue amongst many super insulated religious groups , often orthodox, fundamentalists etc. Do we really need to go into all of the issues that exist in Islam?

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

you're still talking to that kid?


cmon

 

[arrall]

@mal3volent

I'm packing up to move right now so I haven't watched the full video, but here are my thoughts on the Triggernometry video so far:

• If October 7th is 12x 9/11, what is the Nakba (displacement of 750,000 Palestinians and murder of over 15,000 more) or the tens of thousands who have been slaughtered throughout the past 14 months alone? Why are we ignoring those death tolls?
• The Mexican analogy is a poor one, because the US has not been regularly going into Mexico and indiscriminately shooting Mexican civilian for nearly a century, starving them, slaughtering them when they peacefully protest, removing them from their homes, etc.
  A better analogy would be African-American slaves rising up and slaughtering white slave owners pre-Civil War.
  The use of Mexicans to paint the invading entity as an 'other' instead of Canada to the north is also interesting, since the US went to war with both countries early in its history.

Having read that entire article though, 80% of it seems to be unrelated to the Israeli government's role in the whole thing. When you finally get to the part that is supposed to explain their complicity , it sounds more like incompetence than an intentional conspiracy to protect pedophiles. They don't do thorough background checks on Jews immigrating into Israel , so they get lost in the system.

The system is kinda set up this way intentionally, but it goes a lot deeper than this.
Eli knows a lot more about it so I will go ask him for more info on it.

Do we really need to go into all of the issues that exist in Islam?

I'm no fan of any organized religious group, so I'm happy to discuss my issues with Islam and criticism of Islamic theocracies being painted as 'Islamophobia' as well.
Some of the tactics used by fundamentalist Islamic dictatorships mirror what Israel has been doing as of late.

 

[mal3volent]

'm packing up to move right now so I haven't watched the full video, but here are my thoughts on the Triggernometry video so far:

• If October 7th is 12x 9/11, what is the Nakba (displacement of 750,000 Palestinians and murder of over 15,000 more) or the tens of thousands who have been slaughtered throughout the past 14 months alone? Why are we ignoring those death tolls?
• The Mexican analogy is a poor one, because the US has not been regularly going into Mexico and indiscriminately shooting Mexican civilian for nearly a century, starving them, slaughtering them when they peacefully protest, removing them from their homes, etc.
  A better analogy would be African-American slaves rising up and slaughtering white slave owners pre-Civil War.
  The use of Mexicans to paint the invading entity as an 'other' instead of Canada to the north is also interesting, since the US went to war with both countries early in its history.

In the video he addresses the common assertion that "history did not begin on Oct 7" and all that implies. He assumes your characterization is true for the sake of argument.

Basically, every country on Earth was built on brutal, bloody conquest. Including yours and mine.

The fact is, Israel exists. The United States, Canada, Australia exist. All the atrocities that happened during their formation do not justify the killing of people today. If native people from those countries were to behave in the same manner as Hamas, they would receive similar responses.

Peace will never be achieved by playing this game.

(All points I've been making for several months)

 

[-=SS=-]

you're still talking to that kid?

Mate why is there 150 pounds of chewed bubble-gum protruding from your profile picture.

All you really talk about is trans people in sports, drag queens in libraries, and supporting Israel - far-right viewpoints on wedge issues that are designed to distract people

The first two issues on that list are not far-right viewpoints. This isn't aimed at you, but people really need to stop crying wolf by using 'far-right' to disparage anyone who takes issue with certain concerns. It's going to devalue that word to the point of nullification - the nursery rhyme wisdom is quite clear on the dangers of doing that.

Yeah they're distracting cultural war issues, but the majority of people (from all sides) do not want their children being bothered by sexually overt individuals, or content. That's just common wisdom, innate biological programming. It's true psychology, not politics.

Also, why don't more Hamas sympathizers just listen to Hamas' own words they have publicly said regarding civilian deaths? Ear muffs.

If we're talking about white middle-class people and not those with some tangible connection to the Muslim world, despite being a conspiracy minded person myself I do actually think it stems back to being about anti-Semitic based conspiracy theory, but not necessarily in an overt way - there is an element of 'oppression Olympics' to it too, seeing the plight of the poor being bombed by the more advanced military state.

Deep down I think a lot of people know there is something 'odd' with this world, with the power structures and such. They know about Jewish people overly represented in the media and banking world, probably heard about Rothschild, and so without doing much real thinking or investigation they resort to simple projection.. Israel (Jews) just become an easier target on to which to project these feelings, and when there is literally no other outlet for that type of thinking (it is socially unacceptable to be a conspiracy theorist) then they can just dump it all in that direction. When you factor in the brutality of the military operations and some of the questionable settlement expansions, it just lends more weight to projection.. it seems like a best fit.

There is also a historical, psychological component to that projection as well, one which I maintain adds more gravity than we currently acknowledge. Like personal habits that become easier to indulge the more we indulge, I think the same principle operates on the collective level as well. Jew's have repeatedly been utilized as scapegoats through history, a target on to which we can project all these unresolved feelings and thinking patterns that demand answers to which we have none.

Projection is related to delusion. You can't argue with logic and rationality to a mind in a delusional state - ear muffs. Without another outlet available on to which to dump all those unresolved feelings and thinking, people will cling to the current outlet regardless of how ludicrous it is because it is felt to be a matter of (ego) survival.

 

[arrall]

The first two issues on that list are not far-right viewpoints. This isn't aimed at you, but people really need to stop crying wolf by using 'far-right' to disparage anyone who takes issue with certain concerns. It's going to devalue that word to the point of nullification - the nursery rhyme wisdom is quite clear on the dangers of doing that.

Outside of the US, these are considered wedge culture war issues that only the far right cares about.
Here in Canada, the only politicians who bring it up are the far-right wing of the Conservative party and the fringe ultranationalist People’s Party when they want to distract from economic issues and their own failings.