Palestine discussion
- Thread starter Cheshire_Kat
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You don't? I can post some examples, but I'm generally referring to the Nixon/Vietnam Era. The other side of the far left were the more revolutionary types.
I'm a tree hugger, btw. My mother was an activist hippie, she taught me a lot. Although, I'm technically not a pacifist, I do have abstractly pacifist ideals.
The American left has historically always taken a pacifist, isolationist attitude towards war. WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, etc.
"Leave them alone, let them run their own country.", "Make love not war.", etc, yet they only ever denounced violence-- they never encouraged it.
However, it seems some of the people who support Palestine have completely abandoned pacifism and are openly calling for more war, more death, but more specifically; revenge, which is an inherently toxic concept and completely antithetical to pacifism. Have we all forgotten what Gandhi gifted the world and what he did for his country?
There were two ways racial equality was borne out of this country, through non-violent rhetoric of MLK, or through the violent rhetoric of Malcom X. Which one prevailed and ultimately brought justice, honor, and racial equality? MLK.
I think that Americans with no direct connection to Palestine, who chant, "From the river to the sea...", either don't understand the meaning or the implications of that phrase, or they do, which means they are encouraging violence and war in the region of a tenfold magnitude. I have cheered for neither side in this war, I'd like to see it stopped. Displacing 10 million Jews would not be the right way to go about that. There are no winners in war, only death.
I have personally witnessed blind hatred coming out of the left like I have never witnessed before in my life. The type of blind, instructed hatred you see coming from the conservatives who watch way too much Fox news and have 10 flags on their truck.
Disclaimer: some generalizations were made for the sake of discussion.
"Leave them alone, let them run their own country.", "Make love not war.", etc, yet they only ever denounced violence-- they never encouraged it.
However, it seems some of the people who support Palestine have completely abandoned pacifism and are openly calling for more war, more death, but more specifically; revenge, which is an inherently toxic concept and completely antithetical to pacifism. Have we all forgotten what Gandhi gifted the world and what he did for his country?
There were two ways racial equality was borne out of this country, through non-violent rhetoric of MLK, or through the violent rhetoric of Malcom X. Which one prevailed and ultimately brought justice, honor, and racial equality? MLK.
I think that Americans with no direct connection to Palestine, who chant, "From the river to the sea...", either don't understand the meaning or the implications of that phrase, or they do, which means they are encouraging violence and war in the region of a tenfold magnitude. I have cheered for neither side in this war, I'd like to see it stopped. Displacing 10 million Jews would not be the right way to go about that. There are no winners in war, only death.
I have personally witnessed blind hatred coming out of the left like I have never witnessed before in my life. The type of blind, instructed hatred you see coming from the conservatives who watch way too much Fox news and have 10 flags on their truck.
Disclaimer: some generalizations were made for the sake of discussion.
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Electrum1
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"The Israeli military confirmed that Yahya Sinwar, the leader of Hamas, was killed on Wednesday. His body was identified by the Israeli authorities, the military said"
I'm surprised he was even in the country. I thought he lived elsewhere in a penthouse suite.
mal3volent
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He had to keep moving. Recent events have proven that Israel has the capacity to reach you almost anywhere.
That's because the left has been completely co-opted since Occupy Wall Street, when the establishment realised there was real social momentum building and they had to act to stop it. We've had over a decade of sophisticated digital social engineering, specifically targeted at adolescents and teenagers to prep them for falling into a predefined thinking patterns.
It's not just the blind hatred towards Israel, but Jews in general now, especially from the conspiracy circuit. I've noticed over the past few years the number of comments and posts about 'the Jewish question', etc, have been increasing exponentially. Which is ironic, because if one just scratches history they can say quite clearly the origins of this stuff - I have posted here before about the connection between the RC Church and this phenomena, specifically going back to 1880 and Jesuit propaganda that was directly connected to the wave of anti-Semitism that swept over Europe in the subsequent decades.
The rage that young people feel, and rightly so, about their own circumstances has found an outlet of expression. They don't know any better at that age, nor do they understand that this psychological mechanism is always the method that society/culture uses in order to deflect from its own failings.. by projecting it outward to another target, culminating in war and violence. Most of these kids don't remember the Iraq war and the propaganda back then.
They have clearly been manipulated. It's self-evident. You can't hold up signs about homosexuality and Palestine, and fail to understand the inherent contradiction, unless you are either young or really stupid.
I tend to think that many are both, young and stupid. The brainwashing is sad and sadly comical.
If they went there and were found to be gay; they would be killed. Any drugs that are deemed bad including weed, death. Women are treated horribly.
Democracy as the west knows it, doesn't exist there.
Freedom of thought and speech; that is okay if you say and do what they tell you. Dissidents would likely be killed.
Almost everything they believe( except their anti Semitism and hatred of America) would be punished harshly and most likely result in death.
I could go on. I have been known to be long winded. So I will end by saying; their hypocrisy and willful blindness to reality, is ridiculous beyond words.
The infamous Mossad. They probably have close ties with the CIA, too.
The college protests were very ugly for me to watch as an American. They were openly discriminating against Jewish students without even asking their thoughts on the matter in Gaza or on Zionism.
If the reverse was happening and white looking Jews were doing that to Muslims it would be called outrageous hate crimes.
What I saw was not only against everything the left believes in, it was also anti-American. Nobody who immigrates to this country should ever deface a George Washington statue. That's like me going to a Muslim holy site and spitting on it, or going to Russia and tearing down Putin portraits. Both of which would land me in epic levels trouble.
Come to the UK. If you hold up a sign saying Hamas are terrorists at a pro-Palestine march, marches that have been going on every weekend for pretty much a year now, you'll get arrested by the police for harassment and disturbing the peace
People like me have been trying to point this out for 20 years, and derided for it as racist, islamophobic, etc. Only now is the narrative starting to shift as we are faced with the tangible consequences of allowing thousands of people in who hate our way of life into the country. The amount of crime directly attributable can no longer be supressed; in Europe it is undeniable at this point, so much so that the far-right is gaining traction, particularly in the youth.
In another century, this would not have been tolerated. It would have never happened. The public would have already marched on Washington, London, etc, and populated the bridges with the hanging corpses of our political class. It is treason, plain and simple.
Wording matters a lot in such controversial or sensitive topics. I am pro-immigration. The US is a country built from immigrants, it's part of our heritage and soul. But indeed, if you move to a country for better opportunities, you need to show some respect... or at the very least bite your tongue. That's just common sense, common respect, etc.
But yeah, the internet killed casual political discussion. Everything became radicalized and turned into a centrifuge of sorts, where centrist thinking gets ruthlessly attacked by both sides, but particularly by the left. Sometimes I feel so alone, because I am on the left and always will be, but I feel alienated from my own team because I think for myself and have my own opinions on things.
I don't agree with that type of rhetoric or scare stories. If you actually look at the data, Mexican immigrants and aliens in the US are actually 35% less likely to commit a crime compared to the average naturalized US citizen. Which is the complete opposite of what the media tries to scare you into believing. Don't believe everything you see on TV or read on the internet.
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Or that Quasimoto says. Lol, I couldn't resist, just kidding. But there are unskilled job shortages and more debt to give to people who come here illegally.
But at least the brutal drug cartels are helping fill the mafia gap.
To my mind 'pro-immigration' is an oxymoron. There's no need to be 'pro' about it, not unless you have an underlying ideological bent.. which when examined inevitably comes into direct contradiction with basic logic. For example, whenever anyone on the media states they are 'pro' they can never answer the simple question "what level of immigration is enough? or too much?".. they have no answer for it. I think if you really dig down the underlying motivating factor actually has nothing to do with immigration at all, but rather sticking it the opposition - Tony Blair stated this was his aim in fact, to 'rub their [the right] noses in it'.
Every argument for it falls to pieces upon inspection. Whether it be economic, such as 'propping up the NHS'; this drains the immigrants host nation of talent, and we could train/pay our own more to fill those roles, or cultural (more cuisine etc.. like who the fuck cares, food diversity is a ridiculous argument).
We don't need immigration. Every argument for it can be solved at its root, which is the ruling class being unbelievably stingy with resources and accumulated wealth. That isn't to say we can't have any at all, but the filters for it should be way more stringent.
It was fine until Facebook and other DoD sponsored tech giants lowered the bar to entry so every dimwit could contribute to soiling the collective consciousness with their banality online. That and the deliberate efforts by the establishment to drown out nuanced debate with that noise, enforcing political correctness, censorship, curation of search results, etc, etc.
It becomes much easier to decipher when you realize, unfortunately, that the ruling class fucking despise us and we are effectively in a silent war. The assault on language goes back into the 90's, at least, but that's also as far back as my memory goes. George Carlin and Bill Hicks were pointing this stuff out way back then - there are no comedians saying this stuff today, because even as jokes you can now be cancelled and legally destroyed.
I can't speak for America as I live in the UK, so our situations are a bit different. But I see a parallel with the Venezuelan's in Aurora and other hardened criminals now coming across your border.. the same denials were made by the media in the UK and Europe over the past 20 years, and now the consequences are undeniable. Sweden is fucked, Germany, France, England, you can't actually hide it anymore and the media has largely stopped trying to deny it and just gone silent.
It's possible to take a guarded approach without actually hating on all people. In fact this is the default for most people I believe, it's the media/establishment who propagate this bullshit about 'far right', etc, to try and divide people so that they can keep this stuff going (for whatever ultimate reason). This is where the modern left fails, because they are too caught up 'rubbing the noses' of the opposition in it to realize that we are all being played, and that the ultimate consequences are going to fuck us all over. Unfortunately, they are often so angry and low IQ that it is incredibly difficult to even hold a balanced discussion about it.. which again is not their fault (purposefully destroyed education system, poisoned food, poisoned culture, etc, etc).
In conclusion, we're fucked.
Quasimoto, is against free speech?
Anyways, where are all these immigrants going to live as the UK's population grows?
I couldn't give a shit where they live. My generation and younger should be priority for housing, and we're being fucked raw for it as it is.. the cost of ownership and rent is absolutely insane. We're the ones who were, supposedly, the 'future of the nation'. It's self preservation at this point, so they should be at the back of the queue or leave to be frank.
Bro, that was my point. The size of the UK vs Housing and basic infrastructure.
Besides it ain't usually the immigrants that cause problems, but their children.
The thing is, there is still plenty of land. That's the sad part. It's all owned by the 0.01% though, and they do not want plebs in their countryside. They want everyone ringfenced in dense urban centres, under the guise of 'environmental issues'.
These are the same cunts that hold an area twice the size of Greater London specifically for grouse hunting, where they kill all other plant and animal life just so that one species can live.. so they can hunt it occasionally. They are utterly inbred demented fuckwits.
What, I thought you guys loved those inbred royals. Lol. Sorry, I have seen those huge estates that the royals have, on TV shows( when I use to watch it).
The problem is that unlike America; which will take land for public use and provide mediocre compensation.
If the ruling elites don't want to give up their land, then Parliament is unlikely to take it from them. The royals and their rich friends weekend private hunting estates are more or less safe. While everyone else suffers.
It seems like their is a multi tiered system as bad or possibly worse than America.
The problem is that unlike America; which will take land for public use and provide mediocre compensation.
If the ruling elites don't want to give up their land, then Parliament is unlikely to take it from them. The royals and their rich friends weekend private hunting estates are more or less safe. While everyone else suffers.
It seems like their is a multi tiered system as bad or possibly worse than America.
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