Oxymorphone - Safe use for a first time user

[pally pete]

I have the chance to try Oxymorphone for the first time this weekend, im familiar with Oxycodone, Tramadol, Poppy Pod Tea, Codeine, Dihyrocodeine, im also familiar, with the Opoid Conversion Chart (Thankyou Bluelight) So im aware that 10mg Oxymorphone = 20mg Oxycodone (Oxycodone being the Opiate i have most experience with)

My tolerance towards Oxycodone is a strange one to say the least, i can use anywhere between 80mg - 240mg in one go (Orally) And feel great, i can then have a break of between 1 - 3 months and still need 160mg to feel anywhere near as good as i want to feel.

Then other times i can have a break of just a few weeks and 40 - 80mg will have me nodding like a Donkey! The same goes for all the other Opiates i have experience with.

My most recent Opiate experiences has been with Poppy Pod Tea, all the Pods were from the same batch as im well aware different batches of Poppy Pods contain wildly varying degrees of active Opoids (Morphine, Codeine, Thebaine) The active Opoids that im aware are contained in Poppy Pods.

I started out with about 14 Pods and very nearly ended up in hospital! The next time i tried around 7 Pods and this felt almost perfect, it lifted my Depression better than i can remember almost any drug Legal or Illegal than i have ever tried, my mum saw the difference in me and overnight she became completely Pro Poppy, she described it as 'having her son back' as i have suffered crippling Anxiety/Depression for 15 years or so (Which ive talked about quite a lot on Bluelight just recently) Apologies to all Bluelight users who are sick to death of reading about my mental health issues, its just that because i kept them to myself for so many years i feel a sense of relief that i can share them with some others who have a level of understanding of what im going through.

Anyway back to the Poppy Pod Tea, i warned my Mum they were an Opiate, they can be addictive, and my tolerance will inevitably rise, and of course it did to the point where 7 Pods soon became 10 Pods, 12 Pods, 15 Pods....... You get the picture, until the point where no matter how many Pods id use in my Tea they would not have the desired effects, so i decided to instead of brewing tea from the Pods id blend up the whole Pods (Dont ask me how many?!) And id use all the blended pod and put it in a milkshake and chug it back! Therefore consuming the whole Pod and not just extracting the Opoids by making a cup of tea from simmering the pods in hot water, and ingesting all of the pod, no doubt this hit me a lot harder (as i had hoped) but once again tolerance rose to the point where i finally realised this was another drug related recipe for disaster (ive had many drug related disasters in my 32 years of life, of which i will not go into now!

Anyway as usual ive gone completely off on one.

The original question being safe first time use of Oxymorphone?

My insticts tell me to start low (maybe half my usual Oxycodone threshold dose - 80mg) so 40mg Oxymorphone and slowly work my way up in incriments until im where i want to be.

I read this from another site with regards to Oxymorphone " It (along with hydromorphone) was designed to have less incidence of side effects than morphine and heroin. It was a success as it differs from morphine and heroin in its effects in that it generates less euphoria, sedation, itching and other histamine effects at equianalgesic doses. This also means a lower dependence liability.

Is this true?

The less Euphoria, Sedation is what bothers me, because its what i love about Oxycodone, the itching isnt such a problem especially as i always have plenty of 50mg Diphenhydramine in my medicine draw.

As always any imput/info/warnings greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[Kudi85]

research bioavailability. I forget the generics and real names, but may be absorbed better in differnet areas, like mucous membranes? check tho

 

[pally pete]

research bioavailability. I forget the generics and real names, but may be absorbed better in differnet areas, like mucous membranes? check tho

Bioavailability - 10% (oral) 40% (Intranasal) 100% (IV, IM)

I forgot to mention the Oxymorhone tabs are 50mg

 

[Kudi85]

choose wisely, and carefully! I thought i remembered that if you use intranasally that you want to keep it up in your mucuous membranes in your nostrils for best bioavail....

 

[SPC123]

Aren't you the same guy taking hundreds of milligrams of diazepam in a shot? So you regularly take hundreds of milligrams of oxycodone and hundreds of milligrams of diazepam and alprazolam, and now you want help to get on oxymorphone? Honestly, you need to stop, check yourself into detox, and get real help before you kill yourself.

Now, since I know you won't take my advice, in the interest of keeping you alive a little bit longer, follow your own advice. Start small, 40mg should be fine if you find 80mg of oxycodone to be of minimal effect. But there are two things you ought to keep in mind: First, there is little (if anything opiate related) that will give you the same euphoria as oxycodone, that doesn't come from a needle. Second, the farther up the opiate tree you go (using more potent opiates) the quicker your tolerance rises, the more you need just to avoid being sick, the worse the withdrawals, and the harder the habit is to kick. By all means, try oxymorphone, but I have a feeling you will be disappointed. As far as oral use goes, there's a reason oxycodone is the most abused prescription narcotic. If it were a case of stronger opiates causing more euphoria, everyone would be sucking back fentanyl patches.

Seriously dude, if even half of what you say is true, you are in some trouble and you need help. I can tell you from first hand experience that your tolerance will rise and rise, and there will come a point where it will be simply impossible to catch a buzz (without resorting to a syringe). You know how you said you were depressed and anxious for 15 years? Well you'll end up taking hundreds of milligrams of oxycodone just TRYING to feel like you did before, depressed and anxious. And when you don't have the drug, you'll want to kill yourself. Depression is bad. PAWS is 10x worse. Add them both together, and I tell you what, I'd rather die than go through it. And you know I am telling you the truth, because you already see the results with your benzo use, where you need 400+ milligrams of diazepam just to "take the edge off". Just as you get rebound anxiety when the benzos wear off, you'll get rebound depression when the opiates wear off.

Honestly, I don't see how anyone who abuses opiates and benzos can even claim to have depression and anxiety. It is entirely possible that both have passed you by, and what you are experiencing here are the results of your drug use. You are fine when you are on opiates and benzos, but horribly depressed and anxious when you aren't. The happiest person in the world would feel the same way if they picked up your habit. And I am sure you have taken many months long breaks from drugs and still feel the anxiety and depression, but it can take over a year for PAWS to go away, and even then it can linger. Just some food for thought.

 

[d3Xo-fan]

it can take over a year for PAWS to go away, and even then it can linger.

Seeing as PAWS and 'regular' withdrawals are two different things, I doubt that is true. Since you already 'know' he won't be taking your advice, you should perhaps try and phrase it in a way that would increase the chances of him taking your advice. Sort of like it's futile for me to just say 'don't do drugs for the rest of your life' to you SPC123.

 

[pally pete]

Aren't you the same guy taking hundreds of milligrams of diazepam in a shot? So you regularly take hundreds of milligrams of oxycodone and hundreds of milligrams of diazepam and alprazolam, and now you want help to get on oxymorphone? Honestly, you need to stop, check yourself into detox, and get real help before you kill yourself.

Now, since I know you won't take my advice, in the interest of keeping you alive a little bit longer, follow your own advice. Start small, 40mg should be fine if you find 80mg of oxycodone to be of minimal effect. But there are two things you ought to keep in mind: First, there is little (if anything opiate related) that will give you the same euphoria as oxycodone, that doesn't come from a needle. Second, the farther up the opiate tree you go (using more potent opiates) the quicker your tolerance rises, the more you need just to avoid being sick, the worse the withdrawals, and the harder the habit is to kick. By all means, try oxymorphone, but I have a feeling you will be disappointed. As far as oral use goes, there's a reason oxycodone is the most abused prescription narcotic. If it were a case of stronger opiates causing more euphoria, everyone would be sucking back fentanyl patches.

Seriously dude, if even half of what you say is true, you are in some trouble and you need help. I can tell you from first hand experience that your tolerance will rise and rise, and there will come a point where it will be simply impossible to catch a buzz (without resorting to a syringe). You know how you said you were depressed and anxious for 15 years? Well you'll end up taking hundreds of milligrams of oxycodone just TRYING to feel like you did before, depressed and anxious. And when you don't have the drug, you'll want to kill yourself. Depression is bad. PAWS is 10x worse. Add them both together, and I tell you what, I'd rather die than go through it. And you know I am telling you the truth, because you already see the results with your benzo use, where you need 400+ milligrams of diazepam just to "take the edge off". Just as you get rebound anxiety when the benzos wear off, you'll get rebound depression when the opiates wear off.

Honestly, I don't see how anyone who abuses opiates and benzos can even claim to have depression and anxiety. It is entirely possible that both have passed you by, and what you are experiencing here are the results of your drug use. You are fine when you are on opiates and benzos, but horribly depressed and anxious when you aren't. The happiest person in the world would feel the same way if they picked up your habit. And I am sure you have taken many months long breaks from drugs and still feel the anxiety and depression, but it can take over a year for PAWS to go away, and even then it can linger. Just some food for thought.

Thanks for the imput.

But as ive said before i experienced severe Anxiety/Depression many many years before id even heard of Benzos and Opiates.

So i take more than slight offence at this comment you made " Honestly, I don't see how anyone who abuses opiates and benzos can even claim to have depression and anxiety. It is entirely possible that both have passed you by, and what you are experiencing here are the results of your drug use."

Many people Begin to Use/Abuse drugs to escape feeling of Anxiety/Depression, that said i dont disagree that they exacerbate the situation.

Also what i write on Bluelight with regards to my drug use is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth your honour

Im ashamed and disgusted and regretfull that my level of abuse has reached what it has, but it has

Also for all i know i may be suffering PAWS? As all the medical professionals i have seen and spoken to have not even heard of it!

 

[SPC123]

First off, I will take you at your word and answer your questions appropriately. I wasn't as much accusing you of lying as trying to illustrate how unbelievable your dosing is. Second, I also suffered from anxiety and depression. Still do I guess. But when I took opiates it got MUCH worse. Rebound anxiety and depression from benzos and opiates are worse than the underlying condition. This is why they are TERRIBLE long term answers. You will become dependent and tolerant, and you will end up at the point you are now with benzos, where you have to take a ton just to get back to baseline. It will be the same with opiates, except you get terrible depression rather than anxiety (although you get that too).

Have your doctor check out this (note the bold I added to text):

Handbook of the medical consequences of alcohol and drug abuse (2nd ed.). Brick, John (Ed.); pp. 579-621. New York, NY The Haworth Press/Taylor and Francis Group, 2008. xxv, 638 pp.
(from the chapter) This chapter will focus on special issues as they relate to patients with comorbid psychiatric and chemical dependency disorders. The authors start off by looking at the magnitude of the problem by providing statistics regarding the prevalence of patients with comorbid disorders and will review the complex relationships between psychiatric disorders and chemical dependency disorders. The authors will then move into the area of assessing patients for comorbid disorders including the utilization of various screening and assessment tools to evaluate patients for the presence of psychiatric disorders, chemical dependency disorders, and comorbid disorders. Wallen and Lorman will then discuss the so-called post-acute withdrawal syndrome (PAWS) that frequently includes psychiatric symptoms resulting from the effects of addicting substances on the brain that persist beyond the acute withdrawal phase and frequently result in the misdiagnosis of a separate psychiatric disorder. The authors will then move into the area of the treatment of comorbid disorders including various treatment models, treatment settings, general treatment principles, and will conclude with descriptions in greater detail of specific treatment components. The authors then will move into the area of the utilization of psychotropic medications to treat psychiatric disorders in comorbid patients. Wallen and Lorman will review the appropriate utilization of antidepressant medications, mood stabilizers, and anxiolytic medications including some comments concerning the use of potentially addicting medications with this population. The authors will look at the use in comorbid patients of medications prescribed as adjuncts in the treatment of alcoholism. This will then be followed by a review of one of the leading causes of death in the comorbid patient population, namely suicide. A review of comorbid disorders and their interrelationship with HIV disease and hepatitis C will follow. The chapter concludes with a brief summary of our recommendations for effective assessment and treatment of patients with comorbid psychiatric and chemical dependency disorders.

 

[pally pete]

But when I took opiates it got MUCH worse. Rebound anxiety and depression from benzos and opiates are worse than the underlying condition. This is why they are TERRIBLE long term answers. You will become dependent and tolerant, and you will end up at the point you are now with benzos, where you have to take a ton just to get back to baseline. It will be the same with opiates, except you get terrible depression rather than anxiety (although you get that too).
[/i]

Thanks for the imput.
Many people Begin to Use/Abuse drugs to escape feeling of Anxiety/Depression, that said i dont disagree that they exacerbate the situation.

Answered.

 

[SPC123]

I have a question for you: What are your intentions? You agree, I presume, that benzo and opiate abuse are not suitable solutions for your issues. But you don't seem to want to take your own advice. Nor the advice of many others here. Nor your doctors advice, nor your psychiatrists. What exactly are you looking for? If you simply want to escape your problems via drug use, that's something that I don't feel can be done safely, at least not long term. You will eventually OD and possibly die. If you are looking for a genuine solution to your problems, benzos and opiates are simply not it. I would be a terrible human being to tell you otherwise.

I'm not trying to be a dick here. I just really don't want your mom logging onto your account one day to tell us all how you passed away on a Saturday night after overdosing on benzodiazapines and opiates.

 

[effie]

Guys, could I ask you both to try to keep things a little more on topic here? We don't really cater for long debates in BDD so if you would like to discuss the complex relationship between substance misuse and psychiatric disorders I suggest you either take it to PM or start a thread on the topic in The Dark Side forum. They are very valid topics and things to think about, Pete, but this isn't perhaps the best place.. Thank you

Pete, oxymorphone - glad you've looked at the opioid conversion chart - you're right, oxymorphone is twice as potent as oxycodone, and it is sensible to use the lower end of your dosage range especially for your first time.

I don't know much about oxymorphone at all I am afraid as it doesn't really exist here, but hopefully someone else will be able to help

I would also encourage you to consider posting in The Dark Side forum if you would like some help with either your anxiety and depression or your opioid/benzo use. It's not a problem mentioning them in your posts here at all, but TDS are the experts at that sort of thing and could give you a lot of support and wise words.

 

[CitioKid]

Oxymorphone is 4x as strong as oxycodone dose per dose when snorted.

So if you plan on snorting your opana, start with a 15 to 20mg line. There also sometimes is not a complete transfer of tolerance, so an equivalent dose of a new opioid might feel stronger initially simply because it hits a few different receptors.

Be careful. And while oral oxymorphone may not match oxycodone, word is that intranasal oxymorphone is superior to most opioids. Sadly haven't ever had access to opana's to know personally.

 

[barak_opana]

I just saw what pally Pete posted about his tolerance and the great response SPC123 gave. I can't hold myself from not saying anything even though it's a very old topic. Well to start off I have tried everything pally is using or has been using except the benzos even though I have a bottle of Xanax I refuse to take it. I was in the marine Corps for eight years (I'm 26 years old) I was deployed to Afghanistan and suffered some injuries and was diagnosed with PTSD and all it's little buddies anxiety, depression, nightmares, sleep apnea not sure if all are the same but I just know that it's in my medical record. Anyways I started taking the weaker opiates first (codeine, vicodine) and all others that come after but oxycodone worked the best I took 5mg 3x a day for two years worked great (i stopped taking them when i went on deployment i did not expirience withdrawals)but on my second tour my injuries were greater so I was taking 60mg 2X daily and I did this for
1year I was unable to sleep due to nightmares and demons so I started to self medicate (I had other medications other than opiates) with the pain killers since they seem to give me immediate relief. I asked my doctor for something stronger with the excuse that the oxycodone was not giving me pain relief so I tried dilaudid and morphine until he gave me opana er 20mg 3x daily and 10mg ir for break thru pain. At first I did not like it at all but the doc said it might take time to work I did not have time for that so I started to snort and my God was it wonderful lasted longer and was more euphoric I did not have much use for the IR pills since they would not stay in your nose the chemical would make your nose run and and in 5 min it would drip I got so addicted to them that I would run out early and my tolerance was going up by the end I was taking 55mg ER 3x daily (40mg and 15mg) and I felt my tolerance was up so I was taking two 40mg at a time I would have snorted more but it was to much powder and I ran out early so I used poppy tea to help with the withdrawals. Well there is a whole lot more to this but I don't want to go into pointless details. Within the last year I have done lots of soul searching I have a lovely wife and son that have stood by me and love me so much. I never showed them my pain I always have assured them an always have provided for them no mater what an God knows that I never deprived them of anything because of my addiction. Ok. Ok. Enough of my story now to the point of all this and this is for you pally like SPC said food for thought. The whole tolerance thing that people whine about that it increases and they need more to reach the same effects is horse shit I have been taking opiates for a long time and I know that it's a state of mind. Every one that takes opiates for recreation take their first dose and get a euphoric high fall in love with it. They immediately want to do it again but this time do more and get a better high so they start to dose frequently and using more and more and what they are doing is building it up as simple as it sounds and every one might say "oh I know that dumd ass" but nobody follows it to include myself the drug builds in your system and within a month everyone is asking for a increase just like me. Here is some advise from me learning the hard way when I was at 55mg I thought I needed an increase but what was really going on was that my dozing needed to be less frequent since I was taking a high dose of opana and by the time my next dose was due I would take it but no euphoria and would barely feel it. When I ran out I would go and get some poppy tea to help with the withdrawals and when I got my pills a 40mg would be great and I would feel awesome I quickly realized that it was just a star of mind how did I take 5mg of oxycodone for two years and worked great? During that time I was ignorant about opiates and followed doctors orders and every time I took my oxycodone I was super euphoric. I'm not perfect by any means I still take oxymorphone and I do snort since that is the fastest way for me to get pain relief. But yould be surprise that once I fully understood that this shit is just a state of mind I was able to reduce my oxymorphone intake to 15mg 3x daily because that is what worked best for me now every time I snort I get the pain relief and the euphoria I enjoy and it lasts for a very long time and I don't need an increase it's been working great for 6months and why should I mess it up and be chasing the illusive "FUBAR" high now I know that some drugs are stronger(oxycodone will not work for me unless I take at least 45mg) so you do the math. All I'm saying is if you found a really good high thats as good as it's going to get and if you take your next dose and you don't feel a thing it's cuz you are too early and your body is still working on the previous dose so save your pills and don't take more cuz you probably kill yourself and give your body more time by doing this you will live longer and be safe. I know I talked a whole lot and didn't make much sense but some one with the poor writing skills like myself might find this useful. Missed many things I wanted to say and said many things I wanted to miss good luck every one just hope you guys figure out that this shit should only be used if it would improve your life style not take it from you.