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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Oxycodone User trying Dilaudid (hydromorphone)

T

Trevor99

Greenlighter
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Messages
34
Location
Canada
Hello,

I was wondering if currently using about 60-80mg of Oxy at once on weekends and about 30mg a day during the week, what would be a safe range to start with Hydromorphone 8mg tabs. Both orally and intranasal. No other meds will be mixed with these. Thanks in advance

Trevor
 
Here's some information and corresponding math to help you out:

According to the Opioid conversion chart, orally ingesting 7.5 mg Hydromorphone is approximately equal to an oral dose of 20 mg of Oxycodone. Therefore, we can reason that Hydromorphone is 2.67 times stronger than Oxycodone when ingested orally.

However, different sources will provide different conversion rates. For instance, the Wikipedia article on Dilaudid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilaudid) compares 30 mg of oral Morphine (~20 mg of Oxycodone) to 4-6 mg of oral Hydromorphone. By the way, I understand that some may not consider Wikipedia an accredited or reliable source, but for harm reduction purposes, I'm citing this article to support cautionary advice.

Using these conversions, we can calculate an equipotent dose of Hydromorphone. I'm only going to compare oral doses, as conversions for insufflated doses a) are not as readily available and b) tend to fluctuate due to variables such as individual bone structure, nasal contents, etc.

If we use the extremes of both conversion charts listed above...

30 mgs of Oxycodone is roughly equal 6 - 11.25 mgs of Hydromorphone.

60-80 mgs of Oxycodone is equal to approximately 12-30 mgs of Hydromorphone.

As you can see, the equipotent dose based on information you find online is subject to some debate. They are different opioids with different pharmacodynamic effects.

There are additional factors to consider: Hydromorphone has significantly greater bioavailability when insufflated compared to oral ingestion. Conversely, the bioavailability of oral Oxycodone is nearly twice that of an insufflated dose.

The bottom line is: Be fucking careful. Start your doses small and work your way up. Treat a new drug as a new drug, regardless of whether or not it belongs to a familiar class. Hydromorphone is fucking potent.
 
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Hydromorphone is very potent, but can be kind of subtle, especially compared to Oxycodone. Definitely check out the chart, but keep in mind oral and intranasal bioavailability of Dilaudid is very low, and BA is usually not taken into account in conversion charts. Intranasal BA of HM is higher than oral.

Always start small; you can always take more but never less. IMO, if you take 40-60mg of Oxycodone at once, you'd probably want to start with 1 and 1/2 of the 8mg tabs- 12mg, and see how that works. To be completely honest though, considering your tolerance, you'll probably want more like 16-20mg. Just exercise caution. Dilaudid is one of the most potent opioids.
 
when i tried dilauded i was taking 15 mg roxies . i found that 6 mg. was kinda disappointing compared to oxycodone 15
 
actually i did it intranasally, guess i should have mentioned that.
oral, intranasally, neither holds a candle to i.v. (so i'm told)
 
I just can't do IV I can't bring myself to do it. I am very skiddish of needles which could be a good thing because I heard once you go IV you never go back. But I have no problems doing this intranasally I have done my Oxycontin Crushed like that and I used to do Coke a while back but have not done that drug in two years and don't plan on going back.

One more question, for those who have tried Dilaudid intranasal or even orally. I have access to two different brands, both the Mally 8mg and the Roxane 8mg. Which one would be better for nasal, I know the mally's usually have more filler so I am looking for the safest alternative for lungs and best feeling overall. Thanks for all your replies they helped a lot.
 
Trevor99 said:
One more question, for those who have tried Dilaudid intranasal or even orally. I have access to two different brands, both the Mally 8mg and the Roxane 8mg. Which one would be better for nasal, I know the mally's usually have more filler so I am looking for the safest alternative for lungs and best feeling overall. Thanks for all your replies they helped a lot.
Click to expand...

Brand discussion is not realy encouraged here, but I can see where it might be appropriate for snorting, the one with the smallest pills is normally the best bet as you wont have to snort as much. In future though please try to follow the BDD Guidelines and not get into brand discussion as they all contain the same amount of active ingredient.
 
Here's some information and corresponding math to help you out:

According to the Opioid conversion chart, orally ingesting 7.5 mg Hydromorphone is approximately equal to an oral dose of 20 mg of Oxycodone. Therefore, we can reason that Hydromorphone is 2.67 times stronger than Oxycodone when ingested orally.

However, different sources will provide different conversion rates. For instance, the Wikipedia article on Dilaudid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilaudid) compares 30 mg of oral Morphine (~20 mg of Oxycodone) to 4-6 mg of oral Hydromorphone. By the way, I understand that some may not consider Wikipedia an accredited or reliable source, but for harm reduction purposes, I'm citing this article to support cautionary advice.

Using these conversions, we can calculate an equipotent dose of Hydromorphone. I'm only going to compare oral doses, as conversions for insufflated doses a) are not as readily available and b) tend to fluctuate due to variables such as individual bone structure, nasal contents, etc.

If we use the extremes of both conversion charts listed above...

30 mgs of Oxycodone is roughly equal 6 - 11.25 mgs of Hydromorphone.

60-80 mgs of Oxycodone is equal to approximately 12-30 mgs of Hydromorphone.

As you can see, the equipotent dose based on information you find online is subject to some debate. They are different opioids with different pharmacodynamic effects.

There are additional factors to consider: Hydromorphone has significantly greater bioavailability when insufflated compared to oral ingestion. Conversely, the bioavailability of oral Oxycodone is nearly twice that of an insufflated dose.

The bottom line is: Be fucking careful. Start your doses small and work your way up. Treat a new drug as a new drug, regardless of whether or not it belongs to a familiar class. Hydromorphone is fucking potent.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Also, when calculating the dose of a new opioid that you have no prior experience with, do not forget to add a dose reduction for what is known as "incomplete cross conversion." This refers to the fact that while all opiates are similar, and an opiate tolerant patient on oxy will exhibit a tolerance to all opiates, the fact remains that your body has never metabolized hydromorphone*. So, there will be a degree of novelty and it may be more potent than the "pure" conversion formula indicates. So, as VB said, "be fucking careful."

*You may have some hydromorphone exposure depending on your liver's specific capacity to metabolize hydrocodone using the cytochrome p450 II-D-6 enzyme pathway.
 
I have access to two different brands, both the **** 8mg and the ****** 8mg. Which one would be better for nasal, I know the mally's usually have more filler so I am looking for the safest alternative for lungs and best feeling overall. Thanks for all your replies they helped a lot.
Click to expand...

I would be more concerned for your sinuses than your lungs when insufflating. Lungs come into play when IVing pills with fillers like talc. Either one of these should provide the same effect for you; but the one w/ less filler may be more comfortable.
 
Trevor99 said:
I just can't do IV I can't bring myself to do it. I am very skiddish of needles which could be a good thing because I heard once you go IV you never go back. But I have no problems doing this intranasally I have done my Oxycontin Crushed like that and I used to do Coke a while back but have not done that drug in two years and don't plan on going back.
Click to expand...

Yeah hydrmorphone orally isn't very impressive at all. And if you're not comfortable in shooting yourself up then I highly advise against it. I had a problem with shooting myself up as well because I was skiddish for some reason, probably overthinking but instead I had someone do it for me. Yes, it felt good but in the end I knew it wasn't worth it... Luckily I was able to stop after a few times even though when I think about it I can still feel the warmth going through my veins... There are many other pills out there that can get you pretty high without the need to IV.
 
Like others here have said: moreso than other opioids; Dilaudid is a waste if it isn't banged, if not IVing, don't even bother getting it over Oxycodone unless you're trying to stay well. It has neither the intensity (non-IV) nor the legs of other opiates by any other route.
 
i have about the same tolerance that you do and around 3mgs up the nose got me going really good, i was barely able to lift my head, but i was also on weed, lyrica, klonopin, and DPH so idk lol
 
Yeah i have to agree too. It just doesnt work if you dont IV it. It might work in the sense that it helps pain, but your prolly lookin for something a little more than that im assuming. You could always try plugging it though. I havent looked into the bioavailability of that ROA but ill find out for ya if your intrested in that.


Well nevermind man, i just looked it up and hydromorphone has a rectal bioavailability of 36.33 +/- 29.60%, which is even lower then the oral BA (51.35 +/- 29.29%). So if you dont like needles your best bet would be to insufflate them. =/.
 
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ryand123 said:
Yeah i have to agree too. It just doesnt work if you dont IV it. It might work in the sense that it helps pain, but your prolly lookin for something a little more than that im assuming. You could always try plugging it though. I havent looked into the bioavailability of that ROA but ill find out for ya if your intrested in that.
Click to expand...

im pretty sure the BA of intranasal hydromorphone is higher than rectal, im not positive so dont quote me. however, i dont think it is adequate to state that one way is the only way to ingest a drug. different strokes for different folks.
 
laCster said:
im pretty sure the BA of intranasal hydromorphone is higher than rectal, im not positive so dont quote me. however, i dont think it is adequate to state that one way is the only way to ingest a drug. different strokes for different folks.
Click to expand...

Yeah your right. I didnt even really realize that that's what i said. I thought i put IMO but i guess i forgot. Would you be able to dissolve the hydromorphone and insufflate the solution? Would that help at all? Or not really?
 
ryand123 said:
Yeah your right. I didnt even really realize that that's what i said. I thought i put IMO but i guess i forgot. Would you be able to dissolve the hydromorphone and insufflate the solution? Would that help at all? Or not really?
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dillies are already rather water-soluble, so dissolving some in a solution wouldn't help at all, but it wouldn't hurt. some people prefer to dissolve the pills in water, and transfer the resulting mixture into a nasal-spray bottle, but it isn't necessary.

simply crushing, and snorting is the best/easiest way if you don't like using needles. it has always worked for me :)
 
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