Opioids Oxycodone overdose - That easy?

[Intrinsic man]

Generally speaking, whenever opiates are brought up, they are almost always talked about with incredible misinformation and ignorance. As long as I can remember there has always been an extreme derogatory undertone that follows Oxycodone. Of course, being as addictive as they are, they have certainly earned some of this criticism. I was speaking with an acquaintance the other day who claimed he had lost two friends to Oxycodone overdose the year before. When I researched the potential for overdose on google, I found an abundance of sites that spoke as if Oxycodone can and will kill everyone on the face of the planet. I am wondering if the propaganda holds any truth, or if this is just another example of opiate ignorance?

I understand that Oxycodone comes in very large quantities, making it easy for an opiate naive person to accidentally ingest 100 mg with just one pill with out even knowing it. As far as i'm concerned, this is just simple negligence and does not say anything about the actual toxicity of the drug.

 

[Ohayou]

I think part of it is propaganda for anti-rx abuse and there are a lot of stupid people who think that because the pills are small you need a lot of them to get high. Also, people that are opiate naive take the same amount that other require and OD, or crush and snort time release and OD that way.

Oxycodone is just getting a bad rap, the same problems exist for other drugs. There will be reckless and ignorant people that will cause damage to themselves and others with pretty much any drug.

Imagine how bad it would be if oxycodone were as potent as fentanyl and a lethal dose for someone without tolerance would be 3mg instead of 300mg (I don't know what an actual OD for someone without tolerance would be)? The overdose deaths would be extremely high as ignorant people would assume they need a lot more of the stuff to get high than they need.

 

[Intrinsic man]

Exactly. I think the bottom line is you need to take A LOT to actually overdose and die on oxycodone, the problem is it is quite easy to do just that. I do not see my self "accidentally" overdosing on Oxycodone any time soon.

 

[Ohayou]

Me neither, but if it did happen, it would happen out of frustration. By this I mean I would take way too much trying to get high because of my tolerance being what it is, taking something like 400mg which is what i imagine would begin to be my danger area. Also, trying a different ROA like IV could cause my overdose.

Here's an interesting question: Is the opiate-naive user or the opiate (experienced user) addict more likely to have a fatal overdose having both subjects being given a lethal dose for them of oxycodone?

 

[Intrinsic man]

Haha that's funny... I had told my friend the only way I would overdose is if "I had no other way out".

Well, considering they were both given lethal doses, I would say both of them have a good chance of becoming statistics lol. But to answer your question; the opiate naive user. I would imagine the experienced user would have a significantly better chance of survival based on tolerance alone. Even though he would be on a lethal dose, his body would be able to handle it or cope with it better. An opiate naive person would have no advantages that I can think of. For instance, I have heard of people overdosing on heroin on the same dosage they had used the night before. This means that one night he could handle the lethal dose and the other his body couldn't. I don't see the naive user surviving even one lethal dose.

 

[Ohayou]

To clarify, I meant what if they were given enough oxycodone to overdose, but they had to choose their dosage from that (a pile of roxicodone 20's let's say). I think the opiate-naive user would be more likely to OD just because he/she would be unfamiliar with how much to take, a chronic oxy user would want to go all out perhaps but would still realize what might be too much.

 

[Intrinsic man]

Oh damn, I didn't realize how philosophical this question was. I would agree with you though, especially sense addicts typically only take enough to get by, or achieve their daily high. If someone is taking it for their first time, they are more likely to try and get "fucked up" or "make sure they have a good first time" and end up kicking the bucket.

 

[Znegative]

I've rarely heard of anyone overdosing on oxycodone. In fact, I think one of the great thing about pharmaceutical opioids, is that you know exactly how much you're getting. The only way I can see people overdosing on oxy is a) a naive user taking too much, while drunk, or high on another CNS depressant, b) an experienced user mixing it with another CNS depressant.

 

[dkmonk]

I think a lot of overdose cause in young people is trying to be cool and outdoing their friends. We had a kid in high school od, because he was hanging out with people who did opiates a lot and tried to stay on their level when he wasn't a regular user. They were doing deadly combo's of opana and xanax, but had huge tolerances, so he thought this was the norm and never work up.

His friends obviously weren't that great of friend's or else they wouldn't of allowed him to do that. It was a pretty horrible incident especially since they tried to cover up the death, and didn't take him to a hospital when his first symptoms of OD'ing appeared.

 

[Znegative]

That's incredibly fucked up. I once tried to show some friends of mine a good time by giving them each 2mg of suboxone. They didn't OD, but they got way to high, and the whole thing freaked the hell out of me, I was trying to talk them through it on the phone telling them not to drink or take any Xanax etc.. The next day I couldn't get in touch with them for about ten hours, and I was nearly shitting my pants. It turned out their phones were not on and that they were perfectly okay. I deserved that ten hours of paranoia, giving friends opioids/opiates is not a very friendly thing to do if they've never used them before. I'll never make that mistake again.

 

[Intrinsic man]

I once, when I was younger and almost entirely opiate naive, purchased Subutex from this dealer. He told me to only take half the pill because of how strong it was. I didn't believe him... how could ONE pill possibly be that strong? Lucky for me I listened to him and only took half. I ended up feeling amazing, but the next day I felt like complete shit. I can't imagine what would have happened had I took the whole pill!

 

[NOLA]

The vast majority of drug overdoses are misreported either by attributing them to a single source when in actuality it was a combination of sources or by blaming the drug in their system when they died for their death when it was really other causes that were related but not necessarily directly so. A great example is ecstacy. The LD50 of MDMA is ridiculously high. Unfortunately it causes one to get up and dance for hours while not properly hydrating causing deaths where the deceased had a temperature of 106 in some cases. Was it an OD on MDMA or did they die of heat exhaustion mixed with dehydration? The technical answer (and correct one) is they overheated and died. The same dose of MDMA taken while chilling by the pool led to excessive fondling of ones girlfreind whereas the one who took the same two tabs and hit up a rave ODs on MDMA when neither of them took 3% of a lethal dose. While there are exceptions such as cocaine or meth induced heart attacks (maybe or maybe not one the user was predisposed to) that can be legitimately blamed on the drugs more often than not the single drug that makes the headlines is the one that the death is attributed to. Overdosing on oxycontin is Im sure possible but Id wager 90% of deaths attributed to oxycontin were poly drug deaths with the usual culprit being benzos and/or alcohol. Its easy to guage a single substances effect on the body...especially for a routine user. Its when a routine user whos used to taking 150-200mg of oxy takes 3 xanax bars and has two beers that problems occur. 1+1=57 in some cases. I had a freind who had just started methadone maintenence and was on the typical 30mg starting dose. He was in wd bad and anyone whos been to the clinic before knows they dont give a damn what you were on before....you still start at 30mg. They talked him into how important it was to fight it out and stay off other opiates to make sure he didnt accidentally OD while on the methadone so to help him sleep he took 6 blue footballs. Mind you he normally took more than that when he was on his benzo kicks so it seemed innocent enough and in his mind it was safer than an opiate in addition to the methadone since they told him to steer clear or risk OD until his body was accustomed to the done. Well, he freakin died that night and was reported in the paper as a methadone overdose since we were in a small town that had fought the methadone clinic tooth and nail. Rather than educate the public that methadone INHIBITS opiate effects and he could have taken a truck load of vicoden with no ill effect and that benzos in particular wtih methadone are seriously fucking dangerous they chose to call it a methadone death. He died of stupidity that was given to him in the form of advice from the methadone clinic's obviously uneducated staff. I was on 140mg methadone at one time and not only did I not OD, I WISH I would have died occasionally trying to get off that shit. Anytime a long time drug user dies of an overdose of his/her drug of choice an educated person would look a little further into the tox screen. Its well documented that a lethal dose of heroin can and is routinely tolerated by heavy users rendering the term "lethal" a bit useless. More often than not something else was involved if it was a heavy long term user OR it was a kid who was too stupid to consider the possible outcome of swallowing an entire bottle of pills. If I lived daily on 140mg methadone no way can you convince me my buddy overdosed and died off 30mg. YES, I admit it was part of the story, but the least important part of the story.

 

[dkmonk]

I only od'ed once off heroin, and I didn't even do as much as I had on other days, but for some reason my mind just didn't handle that day, and when I took a nap I quit breathing, but luckily my nap was at my friends in the middle of the living room floor, so she gave me mouth to mouth, and when I woke up I was pissed, because I didn't understand why she woke me up and was shouting at me to get up and take a shower. I told her I was in the middle of a dream and wanted to sleep, and didn't believe I was just OD'ing. I felt fine and not even fucked up, but took the shower anyways, and did more dope later on that day.

I wouldn't of ever believed it if there weren't multiple witnesses of me turning blue. I was in denial that I could OD from too much heroin I thought there was no such thing as too much for me.

 

[Intrinsic man]

NOLA, I have always wondered how many overdoses were attributed to the wrong drug and I guess now I have my answer. It makes sense the "authorities" would want to make it seem like an overdose from one drug in order to portray it as a more dangerous drug than it is. The more dangerous a drug seems, the more incentive there is to crack down on said drug, which as we all know means more money in the governments pocket.

dkmonk, I am not sure if this situation applies to you or not, but I have read from multiple medical sources that if you use heroin (or any drug) in an environment that you do not usually get high at, you are more likely to overdose. Apparently when you go to a familiar place, your body automatically starts to prepare for the drug in order to maintain homeostasis. If you use at an unfamiliar place, this does not typically happen making it easier for you to overdose and die.

 

[NOLA]

Curious, the day you od'ed was it at a freinds where you normally used or somewhere you didnt often use? Ive read several write ups suggesting that shooting up in a familiar location with a "normal" dose gets you your "normal" result but that the same dose in an unusual or abnormal enviornment can cause an od with the same amount of dope as usually done at home. Was this the case in your instance or is that theory as yet unproven?

 

[NOLA]

Damn, intrinsic man beat me to it by 2 mins. Guess Im not the only one who has heard that theory. Anybody have any input? Interesting theory if its accurate.

Intrinsic, another decent example of the scaremongering and demonization of certain drugs is the State Palace Theater in New Orleans. Was a huge rave club in an old 1900's era theater that held mega raves 10-12 times a year. Was an open drug market as far as ecstacy, acid, K, G etc. go and had some of the best times of my life there. Parties were held for just about any holiday incl Mardi Gras, Memorial Day, Labor Day etc. such as Psychidellic Pimp Daddy Land, Caffiene Sex Fiend, etc. After 6 years of operating in the open (in fact on Mardi Gras night when they hose down Bourbon St to get everyone off the streets for the 6 hours a year they close the bars down the cops actually would tell the tourists to get off Bourbon and go to the State Palace...that they could come back to the quarter after 6am) they were finally closed down after a judges daughter od'ed on heroin on Canal Street waiting in line to get in. Not closed down due to the ability to buy tabs from house dealers or huge punch bowls laced with ecstacy or all the kids with heads full of acid....none of this apparently caused enough alarm to shut it down. It was a judges daughter oding on the freakin street outside on a drug nobody in their right mind would have associated with this place that got them closed down. Headline "Popular drug club kills New Orleans debutant". Guess reality has no place in the media.

 

[caterva]

the only fatal overdose from oxycodone that I've witnessed firsthand was, without a doubt, only fatal because of the ridiculous amount of benzos and alcohol also in their system at the time, along with god knows what else

 

[dkmonk]

It was at a house where I have used at a lot. I would say I spend 33 percent of the time shooting up in the car, the house I od'ed in and at my own house.

I really can't tell you how much dope I did that day, it may of been more than usual, but I felt like it wasn't at all is what I remember. I know that my girlfriend was pissed off, and feeling really sleepy from waking up super early so I could go to my friends and then go get dope, so I could be high all day. We were suppose to go to Chicago later on that day too after the dope collecting.

You have to realize it is a good 50 minutes drive to get dope, and before we even left the city we shot up multiple times. My friends sister would always say he would have half of his gram gone before they left the city. He was a huge addict of 8 years, and that is how we got all the good connects.

I would remember thinking I was going to od sometimes and I would get up run outside, and then back in and open the freezer door to let cold air on my face, because I wasn't feeling my heart beat and couldn't breathe. Intense panic.

 

[caterva]

Idk how it is wherever you guys are at, but in NYC our needle exchanges have classes about once a month where you show up, sit through a 15 minute demonstration, and then get issued a prescription/permit (while remaining anonymous) to carry&use Narcan, along with a free Narcan kit that usually has nasal sprayers, an auto-injector or two (think Epi-pen), and a vial with a few bags of spikes.

Narcan saves lives, I've had to use it on four separate occasions in less than that many years; even when I wasn't using I would still carry some on me, just in case. If you can find one in your area that does this and can make it there, its free, so go for it- you just might save someones life. If that isn't enough motivation, they also give you a permit to carry spikes, in addition to all the free spikes, cookers, filters, alcohol swabs, ties, sterile water vials, condoms, dental dams, flavored lubes, etc as you can carry.

 

[dkmonk]

I really wish they had that around here especially when I was using. Instead they are ignorant and when it became an epidemic in the small town they actually stopped selling needles without a prescription, so now everyone has Hep C.