Bupe Overdose on suboxone with no opiate tolerance

[docSkala]

Hey guys,

I use suboxone to get high about twice or three times a week. I noticed I do build some tolerance against it, but not much - my usual dose is around 2mg bupe (a quarter of the 8mg/2mg suboxone). I usually mostly snort it, and I snort lines in spaces of like 1 hour (usually like 5 lines). I regularly eat kratom and dramamine, but when the suboxone night is on, I don't eat kratom, I do consume a half of dramamine pill.
So my question is how risky it is to do this - is it possible for me to overdose on these "small" doses? What would be the dosage for someone with no tolerance to opiates / bupe to overdose? Btw the effects I get are tipical for a high on opiates/opioids - I get euphoric, sleepy, have to close eyes, nausea, once I got confused and couldnt think straight, I don't notice much of respiratory depression, my motorics are a bit fked up.

Thanks!

 

[Cdkman]

u will be fine with that dose

 

[docSkala]

u will be fine with that dose

what dose can be dangerous for me?

 

[Screaming_Skull]

Anythihng above that really, there is no point in going above 2mg of bupe if you have a low tolerance and are just using it for recreation, it will just make you really sick..and not the i'm high and i feel good kinda throwin up. Also I would suggest not doing drugs such as Bupe or Methadone for fun when you have a low tolerance....I did this in my early days except with methadone and it jacked up my tolerance, I was using it like you, about twice a week.. Anyway I would just find some norcos for a buzz, not maintaince meds cuz they do fuck up your tolerance. I miss the days bupe gave me a real good buzz for real, it got me soooo fucked up...now i've been on it for 2 1/2 years, and have to mix a buncha shit with it to get a buzz, and my tolerance is even higher than it was when I got on it... Anyway, you should be fine, just don't take any benzo's with it! Really. If you od on Bupe there is nothing to bring ya back really, the Naloxone will not work because the bupe is stronger than it. BE CAREFUL! And really, the shit will raise your tollerance so much it's unreal.

 

[Zerwas]

With its very high potency 2mg of Buprenorphine is actually a pretty big dose for someone with no/low tolerance. It equals about 60-80mg of Morphine.
Completely non-tolerant individuals can puke and feel like shit from even as little as 0,5mg.
These big doses like 8-16mg are only because the people taking them are used to full agonists like Heroin or other strong pharamceutical opioids.

So just be aware of that and also of the long half-life. Taking it three times a week will lead to an addiction even if you take one or 2 day-breaks in between.
Take care!

 

[Phil.McKeer]

Try to do it less often if possible, physical dependence will creep up on you. Suddenly one day your source will run out and only on the third night of no sleep and kicky legs will you realize its the buprenorphine.

And 2mg is really too much for the opiate-naive but it sounds like that isn't overwhelming for you (it was to me the first time I took subutex, 2mg had me nodding and puking for 10+ hours...I had been using H for a few months at that point too so not totally naive).

But one thing that might set you at ease is that as a partial agonist/modulator, buprenorphine doesn't depress you CNS as much as full agonists so you're at slightly less risk for OD, but don't use that as license to use more. I'd lower my dose and space it out further, like once a week.

And best not to mix with other drugs as others noted.

 

[MrCream]

I would suggest to just stop using it and stick to the Kratom, not work it, you will get addicted to it, IF you continue using it like you are, the only way I see you not getting an addiction to it or getting sick without it is if you use it 1 time MAX every 7-10 days notice I said 1 time MAX...

 

[crzydiamond]

As others said... The long half life of bupe can lead to problems taking it a few times per week

One dose lasts up to 3 days / 72 hours. So for all intents and purposes you're giving your body a constant level of bupe....

 

[Znegative]

Yeah, all the points made about the long half life causing possible tolerance and dependence are true, but if the OP is taking only a 2mg dose, it's less likely to happen as fast. after 72 hours one would have .5mg left in the system, so it would be similar to if the OP was taking every day like, .25mg which I guess is still a strong enough dose that one could still be dependent for sure, but I bet it would be a walk in the park to kick. As for overdosing, as long as you don't mix the subs with benzodiazepines or alcohol it's very very difficult to overdose on Buprenorphine unless your a little child or are completely naive to opiates, and even then I just think 2mg would make a person who had never before done opiates sick mad throw up. Buprenorphine has a ceiling effect on respiratory depression so chances are if 2mg isn't killing you neither will 4mg.

And in response to the above post that one dose lasts three days, that's definitely not true, maybe for you it is but it's not generally true for most people. If you're on 24mg one could probably dose every three days but at a dose under 8mg I know most people would be very uncomfortable after 72 hours, VERY uncomfortable. The way Buprenorphine works seems to depend a lot on how high or low of a dose you're on, basically if you're above or below the ceiling effect.

 

[Paige22]

So this is an older post, ik but this is an emergency. I have taken hydros before but only for a week. This was a couple weeks ago. Like an naive idiot I took 8mg suboxone in the strip form. I am tired, trying to keep my heart up. I have been vomiting and cannot keep water down. It has been 8 hrs now. How serious is this? I already fell asleep and woke up by myself. I do not feel like I am going to pass out and I do not feel deprived of oxygen. What will happen if I do not go to the hospital?

 

[tacodude]

You are probably just physically sick from overdose, which will pass. A 2 year old died overdosing on an 8 mg strip, but haven't heard of anything besides that and at this point I'd assume your OK. If someone lives with you ask them to check on you to make sure you're breathing.

 

[spacejunk]

^ agreed.
You will probably feel sick for a couple of days, as buprenorphine has a long duration of action.
If you're not having trouble breathing, and are able to remain conscious, i suspect you'll be ok - but you should ideally not be alone, in case you fall asleep and have respiratory issues.

 

[Jabberwocky]

^ agreed.
You will probably feel sick for a couple of days, as buprenorphine has a long duration of action.
If you're not having trouble breathing, and are able to remain conscious, i suspect you'll be ok - but you should ideally not be alone, in case you fall asleep and have respiratory issues.

Yes, I observed an opioid naive person once get horribly ill from taking 0.5-1mg of buprenoprhine. He was very, very ill for two or three days. I doubt they'd experience worse than this.

 

[keeping]

really serious bupe OD's can be especially dangerous as naloxone often fails to fully reverse them - if you or anyone you know is having a suspected heavy subutex/oxone OD i would just go straight to the ER as you/they could end up on a ventilator.

 

[Wrongguy]

I have to agree with everyone and add I don't think this has anything to do with a your use of hydros, and you said you only took them for a week one time and this was a while ago, so absolutely not precipitated withdrawal... especially if you have never taken them before... probably just to much bupe for someone not used to strong opiates. Bupe is used for addits that have high tolerances to opiates, so you essentially just dove into a pool you were not prepared to swim in.....

You didn't mention vomited or not being able to keep your eyes open, or majorly slurred speech... so you probably just have to ride it out. Only you know if you need immediate medical attention, and if you do don't hesitate...

 

[Diabeezy]

How much bupe would it take an average 175 lb. man to die from? No tolerance. Also, how come you never hear about bupe overdoses?

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

How much bupe would it take an average 175 lb. man to die from? No tolerance. Also, how come you never hear about bupe overdoses?

It's variable.

A non tolerant person will most likely have a non-fatal overdose (i.e. - puking, nodding out, sleeping, feeling like shit) before they actually overdose & die.
That's not to say it isn't possible to OD in higher doses. But Buprenorphine has little respiratory depression, if any at all (or so they say) and it's metabolite, which many theorize to be active in lower doses does cause respiratory depression. I find this "metabolite active" in the .5mg-2mg range. Anything above that it will just be basic buprenorphine tickling your receptors.

You never hear about them because it's difficult to OD on bupe, unless you have zero tolerance and are on 5 other drugs at the time.

In fact, opioid OD's themselves are not as common as they'd have you believe. Most people who overdose on opioids have either overdosed on fentanyl or had 5 other CNS depressants in their system and had no tolerance. Some one with a tolerance to opioids is unlikely to die just from taking more of their drug of choice.

Some one with no tolerance to opioids AND benzos and takes a bupe/benzo combo would be most at risk of an OD. But anyone with a tolerance to benzos/opioids is most likely not going to OD from it. You can also replace benzos in this situation with alcohol.

In the pamphlet I've always gotten with my meds, it says that there have been deaths recorded with as low as 2mg... (active metabolite range maybe?).. but I'd like to see the true toxicology report on that.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

You are absolutely correct, it’s nearly impossible to die from an OD from buprenorphine by itself. It is a partial agonist like kratom is, but unlike kratom, buprenorphine is also a strong opioid antagonist, and basically blocks all other competing opioids (including buprenorphine itself) from binding to receptors at higher doses.

Most people that die from buprenorphine OD’s are also taking other strong CNS depressants. A common example being concurrent benzodiazepine use.

Exactly!

Even then, there are some people who are able to tolerate bupe & benzos due to having a tolerance to both. It's risky, but you have to be responsible and know your body and know your limits.

I've seen studies saying bupe causes no respiratory depression & I've seen studies that say it does. And I've seen studies that say norbuprenorphine (bupes metabolite) is responsible for any respiratory depression. But I've also seen studies saying norbuprenorphine is completely inactive!! So I don't even know if there's a true consensus on what bupe's pharmacology really is all about.

From my experience, if your tolerance is low and your dose is low, there is definitely possible respiratory depression & nods, so I can see how OD is possible.
Buprenorphine may only be a partial agonist, but it's incredibly potent and will knock a non-tolerant person on their ass, probably way so more than kratom ever could.
Or at least that's been my experience. Kratom has never done anything for me, where as bupe definitely has strong opioid effects (although lacking most of the euphoria of full agonists).

So I think people should definitely be careful regardless!! Don't mix bupe with any other CNS depressants unless directed by your doctor.

When I had no tolerance, 1mg of bupe would have me unable to keep my eyes open and noticeable slow/labored breathing. But tolerance builds pretty quick, especially with bupes long half life. Some times I still get this feeling(half assed nods) on higher doses, although it's more of an inconvenience because it's not pleasueable or euphoric like heroin or a full agonist would feel.

 

[Xorkoth]

Buprenorphine does not depress breathing very much so it is difficult to overdose in a way that can be fatal. However it is easy to take too much if you don't have tolerance, and be nauseous/feel shitty for a solid 24 hours.

Personally, even when I haven't touched opiates in a long time, 2mg makes me feel great and isn't too much, but

Incidentally, at about 2mg, your receptors reach full saturation, so taking more doesn't really do much for you. The only purpose of taking more is to provide a longer duration, and an excess of bupe, which makes it harder and harder for other opioids to produce an effect. That's why they prescribe such high doses to addicts on maintenance, so that it prevents other opiates having an effect, hence dissuading their use.

I have a friend who nods off of 400 micrograms of bupe, and he uses opiates semi-regularly.

 

[ryax]

My friend who was mostly opiate naive (he tried oxy, hydro at low doses) tried a 2mg bupe after a friend egged him on. he got sick for a few days
another friend who was opiate tolerant took a full 8mg his first time, but he was only up to around 20mg of oxy when he tried that. he wound up also puking for a long time