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Covid-19 Outbreak of new SARS-like coronavirus (Covid-19)

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I mean I gotta say, I'm nervous to try a first-gen vaccine, just because I know they're rushing this as fast as possible, and vaccines aren't necessarily harmless. Also I am on a biologic medication which states that I am not to take live vaccines. Don't know if this will be a live vaccine or not (I don't know much about vaccine technology). My fear is that it will be rushed and some safety measures will have corners cut, not to mention simply that long-term data will not be available until it's been, well, long-term.

I definitely won't be first in line. If you can get the virus a second time why would a vaccine even work.
 
Can't really trust china. I want to know when will they pay the world all the trillions to deal with covid they should be given a nuclear ultimatum by the entire world for what they have done unleashing this shit on everybody.

I remember reading a few months ago before covid. That China couldn't defeat the western armies so cripple our economy . Our economy is crippled and during the pandemic China has been awarded contracts on Canadian infrastructure and buying businesses and foreclosed homes.
They shouldn't be allowed but my prime minister admires China's government .
Can definitely see where conspiracies get started
 
A vaccine would be great, but it's gotta be fully tested first. Cause it's gonna be given to a LOT of people so it wouldn't have to have particularly common side effects to wind up doing more harm than good.

Agreed, I think it needs to be fully tested as when you mass supply any drug the probability of adverse reactions increases, especially with a vaccine. It would be a disaster if a certain percentage of the entire US population had some pretty severe complications from the vaccine itself, especially with the plan to supply it to people at high risk first and not healthy individuals.

As far as effectiveness, even if its not very effective, it’s still a better mitigation tool than no vaccine at all.
 
Agreed, I think it needs to be fully tested as when you mass supply any drug the probability of adverse reactions increases, especially with a vaccine. It would be a disaster if a certain percentage of the entire US population had some pretty severe complications from the vaccine itself, especially with the plan to supply it to people at high risk first and not healthy individuals.

As far as effectiveness, even if its not very effective, it’s still a better mitigation tool than no vaccine at all.

Even 10% odds yes I would take it.

215,000 and counting dead Americans.

10% of that is a lot of lives saved.
 
CH Get back to us when you understand what "fails to produce sterilizing immunity" means....

People need to work out the risk benefit for themselves individually. For some even a poor vaccine is a no-brainer, for others not so much. It depends on whether you personally are at risk of a severe outcome once infected because that is the only thing these vaccines could actually change. If you have low risk of serious harm then the benefit side of the equation is small, the risk side of the equation is the same size. The vaccines if they appear safe and work, will be prioritized to those who could gain the most. People where the risk benefit calculation is most favorable. Sorry CH you are way down the list, but your relentless service to Public Health Messaging will be appreciated, you may even get a lollypop. A vaccine with a 10% difference in outcome is not worth it if you do the math. At 10% effectiveness vaccine AEs start to become more serious than the disease.

The calculation regarding protecting others is irrelevant because there is no suggestion whatsoever that vaccinated individuals cannot get sub clinical infections and transmit the virus. Hint, Look at the published trial protocols, prevention of infection is not a chosen end point, despite differences in infection rate between the active and the control arms being faster and easier to determine and would be expected to hit the end point faster, than relying on differences in the incidence of severe illness between the two groups in the trials. The people running these vaccine trials know what they are doing.

Sars-CoV-2 is not going to be eradicated, it is technically impossible. Vaccines offer a chance of reducing the impact to an extent and offer a huge payday to the pharma industry. Decent therapeutics are more powerful tools. There are too many people grabbing the money and power for themselves for real solutions.
 
Even 10% odds yes I would take it.

215,000 and counting dead Americans.

10% of that is a lot of lives saved.

10% odds are terrible. You're talking tens of millions of Americans with severe complications in that hypothetical. If even 1% of those with severe complications die you've already reached the same level of death currently reached by covid. (this is assuming 70% of Americans immunized and 10 percent of them have serious complications and 1 percent of them die = 227,000 dead, not to mention 22 million Americans having serious illness all at the same time)

Not to mention the current 200k has been over the year. If it were cause of a vaccine you'd have 200k dead inside a month with this hypothetical. It'd be insane.

Not to mention 1 percent death rate out of 20+million people with "severe side effects" all at the same time overwhelming the health system is probably highly optimistic.

Unless it's outright impossible to have a safer vaccine, there's no way you don't save more lives overall waiting for a safer vaccine under these numbers.
 
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So why aren't reports about vaccines backfiring happening in China, Russia?

It's because they are targeting who they give the vaccine to, i.e. otherwise healthy workers i.e. military personnel and other people who will invariably come in face to face contact with others.

It's because if it got to phase 3 it's good enough for me. I truly believe that. Someone had to sign up just to get it through the first two stages. I signed up to be in the early stages, I don't care. I would rather have a chance at beating this than getting exposed to it over and over again.

US has no other solution here because mask mandates don't work because cops are lazy, or people simply don't care. Imagine how many people don't use condoms, well know you know approximately who will and won't wear a condom.

Covid-19 can infect and kill someone rather rapidly which is terrifying vs. other pandemics we have had i.e. HIV, TB, Hep C where it is a slow, drawn out process.

I can't imagine why people think it needs FDA approval. Cigarettes have FDA approval, remember? They're not good for you. What it needs is general consensus from the scientific community about its benefits. I believe we already have enough to go off of given that it's in the third phase for otherwise healthy people going into rising covid-19 levels, and influenza during the winter with states DESPERATELY trying to re-open (i.e. interpret this as a positive feedback loop of exponentially growing cases).

I want something, now. I don't want to be stuck in the hallway of a hospital waiting for a bed, dying of the plague. We've come quite far scientifically with vaccines, I trust the mRNA vaccine, I wouldn't mind a live virus vaccine either but I think mRNA is the clear winner (I believe Moderna is making it).

There's a reason crappier countries i.e. China and Russia are handling this better and already are pushing out a vaccine, and it's not using their people like guinea pigs. They easily could have put massively large amounts of their own citizens on phase 1 trials but Russia got a vaccine approved with only 80 test subjects (which is indeed bad, needs more testing obviously).

You actually believe China and Russia would tell the world their mistakes? And no they are using mostly healthy prisoners against their will.
You take it if it comes out if you're so concerned about everyone else
 
Hint, Look at the published trial protocols, prevention of infection is not a chosen end point, despite differences in infection rate between the active and the control arms being faster and easier to determine and would be expected to hit the end point faster, than relying on differences in the incidence of severe illness between the two groups in the trials.
The primary efficacy endpoint of the Moderna (can't post link due to Cloudflare error: "https://www.modernatx.com/ sites/default/files/mRNA-1273-P301-Protocol.pdf" without space), Pfizer/BioNTech, and Oxford/AstraZeneca trials are all the same: incidence of symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection (i.e. incidence of COVID-19). All three trials are examining the incidence of severe COVID-19 as a secondary efficacy endpoint, and the Moderna and Oxford/AstraZeneca trials are examining the incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection (whether symptomatic or not) as a secondary efficacy endpoint, while the Pfizer/BioNTech trial is not.
 
Sorry CH you are way down the list, but your relentless service to Public Health Messaging will be appreciated, you may even get a lollypop.
LOL where do you think I live?

I live in the US and we don't have health care here. 😂

There isn't even a US department or anything you could claim I'm speaking for.

they are using mostly healthy prisoners against their will
Potato, potato.
 
Even if we develop an effective vaccine and produce it...how many people will trust the approval process (plus anti-vaxxers!)?

The share of Americans who say they are likely to get a Covid-19 vaccine as soon as it’s available is dropping — and the decline is notably more pronounced among Black Americans than among white individuals, according to a new survey from STAT and The Harris Poll.

Overall, 58% of the U.S. public said they would get vaccinated as soon as a vaccine was available when asked earlier this month, down considerably from 69% who said the same thing in mid-August. That change suggests growing concern that the regulatory approval process for a Covid-19 vaccine has been politicized by the Trump administration in the run-up to the presidential election.

STAT Source: The Harris Poll / STAT. Poll administered Oct. 7-9, 2020.

Drill down further, and the new data show a striking disparity by race. The poll found that 59% of white Americans indicated they would get vaccinated as soon as a vaccine is ready, a decline from 70% in mid-August. Only 43% of Black individuals said they would pursue a vaccine as soon as it was available, a sharp drop from 65% in mid-August.

The findings appear to underscore an ever-widening chasm in how white Americans and Black Americans perceive the health care system in the U.S., a difference that could reflect both health care disparities and decades of distrust that have only been magnified during the pandemic.

“When we’re looking at the intersection of vaccine and politics, everything is exaggerated. It’s not just racial disparities, but health disparities,” said Rob Jekielek, managing director of The Harris Poll. “Black [individuals] are disproportionately less likely to be within 60 minutes of a primary care physician, which also means they’re less likely to get useful information and instead use a hospital emergency room as a primary mechanism for care. They’re also less likely to have insurance.”

Such disparities have been reflected in the disproportionate toll the pandemic has taken on the Black community. A recent report published in the Proceedings of the National Academies of Sciences found that deaths due to the coronavirus were 2.5 times higher among Black individuals than white individuals, after adjusting for age differences.

And from March through mid-July, age-adjusted hospitalization rates due to Covid-19 for Black people — as well as Hispanics and Native American people — were roughly five times higher than that of white people, according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

An analysis last July by FiveThirtyEight suggested that testing sites in and near mostly Black and Hispanic neighborhoods are likely to face greater demand than those near predominantly white neighborhoods, and this can contribute to longer wait times. And a study in the Journal of Travel Medicine found the proportion of residents who are people of color in an area is associated with increased travel time to a Covid-19 testing site.

For these reasons, the pandemic has exacerbated concerns about the extent to which the African-American community trusts the U.S. health care system, especially since President Trump has often disparaged minorities. At the same time, there is widespread uncertainty about the safety and effectiveness of any vaccine that his administration pushes out the door.

For the past few months, Trump has repeatedly promoted the idea that a vaccine would soon be available and has leaned on the Food and Drug Administration to move faster, an effort that was seen as a transparent bid to win votes and blunt criticism of his handling of the pandemic.

“There’s a historical level of distrust,” said Jekielek. “And when you think about stalling the spread of Covid-19, these findings indicate that we face an increasingly bigger problem.”

The survey also asked Americans how the news that Trump had tested positive for the virus might affect their actions. About 40% of Americans said they are somewhat or much more likely to get the coronavirus vaccine once it is available. That response was similar among Republicans and Democrats, with 41% and 44%, respectively expressing this view. At the same time, 41% reported their view on a vaccine hadn’t changed even though Trump was infected. Another 19% said they were somewhat or much less likely to pursue an available vaccine.

STAT Source: The Harris Poll / STAT. Poll administered Oct. 7-9, 2020.

Masks and social distancing, however, elicited a different reaction.

Now that Trump tested positive for Covid-19, 57% of Americans said they were somewhat or much more likely to wear a mask. Among Republicans, 55% reported this response, compared to 66% of Democrats. Overall, only 36% said their position was unchanged, while 7% indicated they were somewhat or much less likely to wear a mask.

Meanwhile, 54% of the U.S. public reported they are now somewhat or much more likely to practice social distancing, with 51% of Republicans and 64% of Democrats expressing this view. Just 7% said they were somewhat or much less likely to practice social distancing after learning that Trump had developed Covid-19.
 
Even if we develop an effective vaccine and produce it...how many people will trust the approval process (plus anti-vaxxers!)?


Hopefully Biden makes it mandatory.
 
My aunt just died of the 'rona. She was fairly old and overweight. She came down with the dry cough, and it quickly progressed to "glass lungs" and a ventilator, and this morning she lost the battle. My uncle said it went pretty quickly. We were not close at all, in fact there was some bad blood between her and my dad that caused me to rarely ever see her since adulthood. Still though, damn. :\
 
Fucking hell this is a crazy world we are in now, this "glass lungs" situation sounds really scary @Xorkoth. My bestfriend grandma died from it and she was in her 90's tho and had Alzheimers so she wasn't in the healthiest shape. It came into the Nursing home in NY and people that lived there with her got it and died. She got an infection in the brain it was so sad and couldn't talk the last months and then she passed. This virus is terrible situation for the elderly. I'm sorry about your aunt, you have my condolences.
 
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