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Covid-19 Outbreak of new SARS-like coronavirus (Covid-19)

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˄˄˄ "...most hospitals are not prepared to treat this..." and that is/was exactly the problem. Scientists knew that there was a new type of 'flu that hadn't been seen before and that there was no vaccine for, on top of which it was highly contagious. The lockdown wasn't designed to stop people getting infected, it was designed to slow down the rates of infection so that hospitals had a slim chance of being able to keep up with new admissions.

"What worries me the most about this virus is the fact that if you test positive..." what worries me more is that you could be tested on a Monday, be infected on the Tuesday but remain asymptomatic, be told your negative on the Wednesday and then go around merrily infecting others until you start displaying symptoms, all the while proclaiming that you've tested negative and that you've just got a mild cold/hayfever.

Gotta remember that the test is point-in-time.

"Concerning the media...", they are just as clueless as the politicians are. Reason while they are all clueless is because this is a new virus and everybody is jumping up and down on the scientists for info which the scientists just don't have. So, there will be scientists saying 'we just don't know' and there will be scientists hypothesizing and postulating with 'best guess' answers. These best guesses are spun by the politicians to make it look like they know what's going on. The media then do there usual job of embellishing and glamorizing what the politicians are saying. That's the job of politicians and media, that's what they get paid for, that's all they know.

You can choose to believe whatever you want, CNN, CBS, FOX, NBC, BBC, Al Jazeera it's all just different spin on the same thing. IMO, watch at least 3 or 4 different news channels and take an average of what is being reported. Probably be able to get a little (just a little) closer to what is actually going on.

./empeebee
 
Thanks for the like @cduggles. What burns my wick is that the politicos knowingly sent the doctors, nurses, ward cleaners etc. into battle against an invisible enemy with almost no armour. Bit like sending a firefighter into an inferno wearing a kitchen apron. Our heads of state should be ashamed of themselves. But they won't be... :(

./empeebee
 
Absolutely, @empeebee!
The lack of PPE (personal protective equipment) and the possibility of getting infected make working on the front lines unnecessarily hazardous, and it’s outrageous. Health care workers are being extended mentally, physically and being put in extraordinarily difficult ethical situations on top of it all. It’s unconscionable, but “somehow” the politicians will manage to stomach it. 😕
 
Tony Robbins is using his influence to try to get people solid information.
He organized a panel of doctors, MDS and a Nobel prize winner
COVID-19 FACTS FROM THE FRONTLINE


Around 2 BILLION people may lose their jobs in the next couple of months due to pandemic
Save lives - by plunging the world into poverty.

I hope we all enjoyed our lives so far because things ain't gonna be the same!

Dr. Karol Sikora is a British physician specializing in oncology.
He is Medical Director of Rutherford Health plc, Director of Medical Oncology at the Bahamas Cancer Centre, a partner in and dean of the University of Buckingham's medical school and former director of the WHO cancer programme.
98731904_10158166117073820_5706406146328231936_n.jpg


I’ve signed death certificates during Covid-19. Here’s why you can’t trust any of the statistics on the number of victims

Telegraph - 'The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is a world scandal'
"There is still not a shred of real proof that the planet's reckless stay-at-home experiment made any difference."

BBC - Coronavirus: Domestic abuse website visits up 10-fold, charity says

Telegraph - Almost 13,000 unexplained deaths in England and Wales since coronavirus crisis began, figures show


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What I'm curious about is has anyone's opinions on this virus changed since a few months ago?

"It's bad enough that Governor Andrew Cuomo instituted the dangerous policy that forced nursing homes and long-term care facilities to accept COVID-positive patients against their will.

It's bad enough that this policy appears to have led to the rampant spread of the coronavirus in New York nursing homes and, tragically, thousands of deaths in those facilities.

It's bad enough that it took Cuomo weeks of denial, deflection, and histrionics before he finally re-evaluated this policy and only partially rescinded it.

It's bad enough that Cuomo's office quietly "disappeared" the policy from the New York State website so as to pretend as though the deadly miscue never really happened in the first place.

It's bad enough that Cuomo's feckless brother chose to yuk it up with the governor in primetime interviews on CNN rather than press him on the palpable failures his administration engineered in the Empire State.

All of that is bad.

What's even worse and, frankly, unforgivable, is that the state of Michigan continues the same type of policy and refuses to release any statistics showing the number of COVID deaths that are associated with nursing homes and the policy."
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townhall.com

No, Michigan Governor Whitmer Will Not Be Biden's Running Mate

It's bad enough that Governor Andrew Cuomo instituted the dangerous policy that forced nursing homes and long-term care facilities to accept COVID-positive patients against their will.It's bad enough that this
townhall.com townhall.com
 
"It's bad enough that Governor Andrew Cuomo instituted the dangerous policy that forced nursing homes and long-term care facilities to accept COVID-positive patients against their will" - yah, the other option was to run out of hospital beds for folk with C19. Same thing happened in the U.K. Older folk convalescing in hospitals being moved to care homes without being tested first.

They could have, at the very least, made sure the care homes had enough appropriate PPE before moving those older folk out of the hospitals. S'pose it was a gamble though. When you don't have enough PPE who do you give it to? The doctors and nurses on the front line dealing with patients who probably have C19, or care home staff dealing with folk who probably don't have C19?

But it is a shit situation to be in to try and figure out which option causes the least amount of damage to the fewest amount of people.
 
JGrimez said:
There is still not a shred of real proof that the planet's reckless stay-at-home experiment made any difference
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empeebee said:
The lockdown wasn't designed to stop people getting infected, it was designed to slow down the rates of infection so that hospitals had a slim chance of being able to keep up with new admissions.
Click to expand...
 
empeebee said:
"It's bad enough that Governor Andrew Cuomo instituted the dangerous policy that forced nursing homes and long-term care facilities to accept COVID-positive patients against their will" - yah, the other option was to run out of hospital beds for folk with C19. Same thing happened in the U.K. Older folk convalescing in hospitals being moved to care homes without being tested first.

They could have, at the very least, made sure the care homes had enough appropriate PPE before moving those older folk out of the hospitals. S'pose it was a gamble though. When you don't have enough PPE who do you give it to? The doctors and nurses on the front line dealing with patients who probably have C19, or care home staff dealing with folk who probably don't have C19?

But it is a shit situation to be in to try and figure out which option causes the least amount of damage to the fewest amount of people.
Click to expand...

It doesn't take a medical genius to know that putting people with the virus around the elderly who are the most at risk is a bad move.
This whole global lockdown was done under the pretense of protecting the elderly.
Running out of hospital beds didn't happen in most places. In fact they're furloughing doctors and nurses and some hospitals are going out of business.
 
Bosses say $600 coronavirus unemployment boost makes reopening harder. Some workers ‘are making more money than they’ve ever made by not working right now.’

...Many employees were making more money on unemployment insurance than they did working. While unemployment benefits usually pay a fraction of a person’s regular wages — 47% in Illinois, up to a cap — people laid off or furloughed amid government-mandated shutdowns are getting an additional $600 per week through July.

Three-quarters of the factory workers, whose jobs on average pay above $15 an hour, voiced concerns about letting go of the extra cash, said Ken Ragland, chief operating officer at W Diamond Group, which manufactures the Hart Schaffner & Marx brand. In a difficult conversation, he told their union that those who didn’t return to work within 72 hours would lose their jobs — and also lose their unemployment benefits — unless they had a legitimate reason to stay home, such as child care constraints.
...
As Illinois enters phase three of its reopening plan and more businesses resume operations, some employers worry they won’t be able to staff up if people are making more money staying home than they would returning to work. University of Chicago economists estimate that nationwide, about 68% of jobless workers can get more in unemployment benefits than they make while working.
...
The concerns have reached Washington, where a proposal has surfaced to use federal dollars to pay people a bonus if they return to their jobs.
...
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I am not criticizing the gov't for funding people who were put out of work by the gov't's decision to shut down the country. But the way in which this was done will have a lasting effect on getting the economy back up, and by extension, the average American's long term financial state if there aren't jobs to go back to because companies couldn't reopen or demand had dropped to a point that less employees were needed.
 
The flu shot itself has a higher mortality rate than covid19
The figures I read for actual direct mortality caused by influenze vaccinations are laughably small in comparison to COVID19. WHO gives a rate of adverse effects to inactivated flu vaccine as roughly 1 case per 10,000 to 1 per million. I can't believe COVID mortality is 0.01% or lower.

Deaths from people who were given flu vaccine, yet ended up catching the flu anyway, now that I could believe.
 
CDC now says covid19 death rate = 0.4% among those who show symptoms and are infected
if you add in the conservatively low asymptomatic at 35% then it's = 0.26%

FluZone the most popular flu vaccine in the country.
Written on their insert:
Trials on 65 yrs and older = 0.6% died soon after taking vaccine

Study 2 = 0.5%
 
Trials on 65 yrs and older = 0.6% died soon after taking vaccine

Oh, come now. You're better than this. Correlation, causation, etc.

Wonder what the death rate of the 65yr and older cohort is. I betcha it's about, um, 0.6% :)
 
sekio said:
Trials on 65 yrs and older = 0.6% died soon after taking vaccine

Oh, come now. You're better than this. Correlation, causation, etc.

Wonder what the death rate of the 65yr and older cohort is. I betcha it's about, um, 0.6% :)
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close no cigar
annual risk of death in the 65-74 age bracket for both sexes is about 2% though the risk for females is about 1/3 less than males, males of an equal age are biologically clinically and actuarially about a decade older than females.
The fact the death rate is 0.6% suggests the trial was selecting a healthier cohort than random sampling would give, hardly surprising, stick a bunch of worried well into the trial throw out the sick with exclusion criteria and you get the correct (for the sponsor) answer.

However the insert is based on numbers from a clinical trial and one would expect a control arm and random allocation into each group, the difference in death rate between the two arms would be the number that was interesting and useful which may or may not be there, not that it interests me enough to check.

If people personally fear the risk of influenza then go for the vaccine, if you don't, don't. I don't see a clear benefit but then I dont see much risk associated with the flu vaccine either, so it comes down to what people want to do with their (or someone elses') money.
 
novaveritas said:
not that it interests me enough to check.
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It should.

novaveritas said:
If people personally fear the risk of influenza then go for the vaccine, if you don't, don't. I don't see a clear benefit but then I dont see much risk associated with the flu vaccine either, so it comes down to what people want to do with their (or someone elses') money.
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The issue now is that groups are increasingly being forced (or unfairly coerced) to take them. And many believe that the associated risks are covered up or obfuscated.

What's your opinion on this theme of - 'my vaccine won't work unless you (and everyone else) is also vaccinated' ?
 
Smallpox still exists. Vaccines don't completely eradicate diseases from the earth. Recently in the US children were arguably contracting polio but they didn't call it that, instead describing it as "polio-like symptoms". There's evidence that a lot of diseases were already virtually eradicated right before the vaccines had been implemented. Correlation isn't causation. Vaccines as a whole may be the biggest big pharma scam of all time (that's not to discount the entire concept of vaccination just this specific industry). I read an account from a doctor from back in 1909 or something who said that he hadn't seen one incidence of cancer in someone who had not taken the cowpox vaccine.
 
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