Covid-19 Outbreak of new SARS-like coronavirus (Covid-19)

[Captain.Heroin]

God forbid we reduce global emissions

JG there are upsides to cutting down on coal/oil businesses. I agree we have to get the economy going again. I just want a renewable economy that isn't going to give out when we have fucking sucked all the oil and coal out of the earth with none left to pillage.

Isn't that a decent goal for a profitable business/nation?

I still think the mandated lock downs is a bad move.

 

[JessFR]

I still think the mandated lock downs is a bad move.

I dunno, I kinda feel pretty damn fortunate to live in a country thats been quite aggressive on this and has managed to keep the numbers really low as a result. Even with a few obvious fuckups early on.

Admitidly the numbers aren't perfectly accurate, but even controlling for population size, Australia's many times ahead of most comparable western countries.

I mean, last I checked Australia had done testing at about 1 in 100 of population and the US 1 in 300.

So one would assume more cases are being missed in the US than Australia.

Australia has just under 6,000 cases, US has 337,000. Adjusting for population size, that's a little under 5 fold less cases in Australia than the US.

And from what we've seen it appears things start getting a lot worse once the number of cases exceed the health systems capacity to deal with it. So more people sick at once increases the odds that those that get sick will die.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I dunno, I kinda feel pretty damn fortunate to live in a country thats been quite aggressive on this and has managed to keep the numbers really low as a result. Even with a few obvious fuckups early on.

Admitidly the numbers aren't perfectly accurate, but even controlling for population size, Australia's many times ahead of most comparable western countries.

If I am young: damn there goes my hopes at a job/career/social life...
If I am old: damn I can't come into contact with any touch surface that another human has been within 6 feet of for up to a 7 day window, have to self-quarantine indefinitely until "society has a cure"...

...or I get sick and deal with the cards I'm dealt...

money is more important. Having a store with food in it is more important. Having people not litter plastic gloves and wear face masks scared for their lives (as if they used condoms that pathologically or cared/knew about TB/other upper respiratory diseases... the flu vaccine isn't even mandatory why do we pretend to care?)

People are going to end up homeless. This is only going to serve hyperinflationist Feds, the rich who can afford ever-increasing food prices at the expense of a deflating/decaying/dying poor class.

There's a line that has to be drawn (which is why Merkel wants a vaccine before 1.5 years...)

 

[JessFR]

If I am young: damn there goes my hopes at a job/career/social life...
If I am old: damn I can't come into contact with any touch surface that another human has been within 6 feet of for up to a 7 day window, have to self-quarantine indefinitely until "society has a cure"...

...or I get sick and deal with the cards I'm dealt...

money is more important. Having a store with food in it is more important. Having people not litter plastic gloves and wear face masks scared for their lives (as if they used condoms that pathologically or cared/knew about TB/other upper respiratory diseases... the flu vaccine isn't even mandatory why do we pretend to care?)

People are going to end up homeless. This is only going to serve hyperinflationist Feds, the rich who can afford ever-increasing food prices at the expense of a deflating/decaying/dying poor class.

There's a line that has to be drawn (which is why Merkel wants a vaccine before 1.5 years...)

There's counter arguments for all those points. You can reduce the homelessness by temporally suspending the ability to evict people as has already been done in many places. People having to be more isolated is not the end of the world, and well worth it if it saves many lives as a result.

And as for littering.... Seriously? These measures have significantly reduced humanities impact overall...

Way I see it the question is, are you willing to risk, and likely wind up sacrificing many thousands of lives that could have been saved so that those that survive have a better quality of life for the next few years?

Yes there are edge cases, there are exceptions, there are people who get screwed either way, people will die either way, but that's the bottom line broadly speaking.

And I for one am not gonna endorse the answer that just says to let those people die. I think it's wrong.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

You can reduce the homelessness

Guaranteed will not happen as much as it should be more on our radar. Even in my city we throw a lot of money into housing for the homeless. It is an endless problem.

let those people die.

Some will die because of covid exposure due to lack of resources/funds. The bailout isn't going to everyone in America.

 

[novaveritas]

Fair enough?

The information technology is important as we are obviously fighting a war against China while we can re: tech/societal development/wealth.

if your mentality is war, a zero sum game one side wins the other side loses you have already lost.
don't fight fights you don't need to have
sun tsu put it a little differently

The Chinese people are people, humans like all of us. I have no public position of the CCP or chinese government, Chinese government is the business of the chinese people not my business.
Like everywhere there are good people, bad people and people who don't know or don't think.

The reality is that the Chinese 5G technology is superior to any US offering at present. I have less to fear from the Chinese Govt eavesdropping than the US or 5 eyes evesdropping. Because even if the chinese govt got info what are they actually going to do about it? nothing they don't care.
The US is pissed because they want the backdoors for themselves to monitor their population for what ever evil intent they have in mind.

The game is to help the good people, bleed out the bad people and educate the people who don't know or don't think.

 

[JessFR]

Guaranteed will not happen as much as it should be more on our radar. Even in my city we throw a lot of money into housing for the homeless. It is an endless problem.


Some will die because of covid exposure due to lack of resources/funds. The bailout isn't going to everyone in America.

Some people will die, no matter what. There's no avoiding it.

The question is how to save the most overall. Obviously a hard question to answer. But I don't believe the answer is to just not give a shit how many die and prioritize just the young people contributing to the economy. That's not an acceptable answer to me.

 

[novaveritas]

The economy is not some abstract entity, a separate thing, we are all the economy the economy is us, our interactions our choices. Some people get this some don't. The managers of Number 21 People's Tractor Factory in Sverdlovsk thought that somehow it was something that came down from above, look what happened there.

 

[JGrimez]

JG there are upsides to cutting down on coal/oil businesses.

Yea man I admit it was nice to see blue LA skies and dolphins in the waterways of Venice. But the results of these moves will be much more horrific to see than what I just mentioned pleasurable to watch.

I just want a renewable economy that isn't going to give out when we have fucking sucked all the oil and coal out of the earth with none left to pillage.

I'd like this too but it's completely irrelevant and inappropriate when discussing the slow-motion forced destruction of our global economy.

I dunno, I kinda feel pretty damn fortunate to live in a country thats been quite aggressive on this and has managed to keep the numbers really low as a result. Even with a few obvious fuckups early on.

I feel pretty damn sad that you're proud of living in an authoritarian puppet state that's convinced its population that lying on a beach with nobody around is somehow a threat to old people. The more ridiculous the things that people accept the worse it's going to get.

You can reduce the homelessness by temporally suspending the ability to evict people as has already been done in many places.

It hasn't been done in the joke of a country that you feel fortunate to live in. Millions of people are stressing hard right now. Not to mention all the Kiwis, some who've lived here for decades and paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes, who are basically being told to fuck off by the government.

Way I see it the question is, are you willing to risk, and likely wind up sacrificing many thousands of lives that could have been saved so that those that survive have a better quality of life for the next few years?

You're framing it the wrong way (or the right way if you ask the MSM).

The question is how to save the most overall.

It's definitely NOT by shutting down the world economy. I don't know why you cannot recognize this. Is it due to fear or something? Are you just unable to go against the establishment because you don't want to be labeled a conspiracy theorist like myself? Do you in the back of your mind know that they're keeping tabs on people and just in case you don't want to be hauled off so you follow the establishment line? I'm fascinated by what goes through your head.

 

[JessFR]

.
It hasn't been done in the joke of a country that you feel fortunate to live in.

COVID-19: (Australia): PM Morrison Announces Moratorium Laws to Prevent Tenant Evictions

On Sunday 29 March 2020, Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison announced a series of principles agreed by the National Cabinet (representing the Commonwealth, its Territories and the States) saying: "The most significant of those is that states and territories will be moving to put a...

m.klgates.com

 

[JessFR]

I don't know why you cannot recognize this. Is it due to fear or something? Are you just unable to go against the establishment because you don't want to be labeled a conspiracy theorist like myself? Do you in the back of your mind know that they're keeping tabs on people and just in case you don't want to be hauled off so you follow the establishment line? I'm fascinated by what goes through your head.

It's because... now listen real slowly here...

I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU!

You following me here? It's not brainwashing, it's not fear of some evil deep state..

I DON'T BELIEVE WHAT YOU BELIEVE.

But you just can't accept that, you can't seem to comprehend that someone could see all the same information and come to a different conclusion, it appears to be inconceivable to you.

 

[atara]

This has been pointed out as happening, both in the US and Italy where numbers are being revised down due to cause of death. You are patently wrong on the first line.

Read the actual guidelines.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf

"In cases where a definite diagnosis of COVID–19 cannot be made, but it is suspected or likely (e.g., the circumstances are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty), it is acceptable to report COVID–19 on a death certificate as “probable” or “presumed.” In these instances, certifiers should use their best clinical judgement in determining if a COVID–19 infection was likely. However, please note that testing for COVID–19 should be conducted whenever possible."

This is just common sense. There aren't enough tests. Doctors do the best they can. If you think numbers are "inflated" because of that but not "deflated" because people die at home without going to the hospital sometimes, you've made your biases clear.

It's annoying to talk to people who believe much less scrutiny need be applied to their own ideas vs. everybody else's.

 

[iLoveYouWithaKnife]

You know, I believe there is a bad virus out there that does kill people but I cannot shake the feeling in my very DNA and soul that tells me something else is going on here.

We need to figure out what that “something else” is and quickly.

Our freedoms and Liberty are being taken away day by day.
We will soon be in a position where there is no return.

Of course something else is going on! It’s not that hard to figure it out!

 

[JessFR]

I thought they were supposed to take away everyone's guns before taking away the rest of the freedoms. I'd swear that's what I've been told for years and years now.

So how does it track that they'd take away everyone's freedoms using a virus, but not their guns? Cause that's not gonna last long term.

At best it lasts a couple years till people realize their freedoms aren't coming back inspire of that always having been the promise?

I keep trying to imagine things from the perspective of people who believe this stuff, but I keep getting stuck at the contradiction that the deep state, conspirators whatever, have to both be completely incompetent and also hyper competent, at different times for different arguments.

 

[iLoveYouWithaKnife]

what’s happening now is a controlled demolition of America and it’s “middle class.” We’re about to enter the one world government, one world currency era. It’s being ushered in and the politicos are doing what they always do, Acting, playing the role they were assigned.

Nothing is real anymore. Nothing. Things will never go back to “normal.”
what’s happening now is a controlled demolition of America and it’s “middle class.” We’re about to enter the one world government, one world currency era. It’s being ushered in and the politicos are doing what they always do, Acting, playing the role they were assigned.

Nothing is real anymore. Nothing. Things will never go back to “normal.”

 

[JessFR]

what’s happening now is a controlled demolition of America and it’s “middle class.” We’re about to enter the one world government, one world currency era. It’s being ushered in and the politicos are doing what they always do, Acting, playing the role they were assigned.

I've been hearing that, FOR MY ENTIRE LIFE.

The explanation for how it's happening changes, but everything else is always the same, it's always soon, yet never quite gets there in the end...

BTW, you accidentally triple posted. Happens sometimes where the server gets suck and so you reclick submit and the server winds up double or even triple posting. I removed the duplicate posts.

 

[iLoveYouWithaKnife]

You can reduce the homelessness by temporally suspending the ability to evict people as has already been done in many places.

Who’s paying the mortgages on these rental properties?

 

[JessFR]

Who’s paying the mortgages on these rental properties?

A lot of that seems to have started to be suspended too.

Up to a certain point you can suspend a lot of this stuff. But there are upper limits, you can't print money forever without inflation for instance.

But we don't need forever, just enough leeway to get most people through this. We'll be paying for it for a long time, but I still think it's better than the alternative.

 

[iLoveYouWithaKnife]

You’re joking, right?


Hey everyone- stop paying your bills. Stop worry about anything. Except the covid-19 of course.
WE are all in this together!

 

[JessFR]

You’re joking, right?


Hey everyone- stop paying your bills. Stop worry about anything. Except the covid-19 of course.
WE are all in this together!

I didn't say everyone, neither did I say we stop anyone paying bills. I said we suspend evictions for people who can't pay and invest in unemployment benefits and.. Well basically shit various governments are already doing.

We don't need to entirely eliminate all money and capitalism and whatever. We just gotta keep people having access to food and shelter, which is what we should be doing regardless as such wealthy countries.

And we, the US, Australia, Canada, UK etc, are REALLY wealthy countries.