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Covid-19 Outbreak of new SARS-like coronavirus (Covid-19)

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Funny this is a rare time where im happy to live in australia apart from for the health care system. Chances are ill be a lot better off here than the US.
This is true except for no 2A.

The problem is being totally unable to see the difference between a government asking you to stay home, and disappearing you for criticizing them.
Yeah, there's like totally no grey area in between those extremes. And they can actually forcibly detain you in some places if you test positive for a coronavirus. How do you even know that the testing is accurate? There's a multitude of reports of inaccurate testing. One English group estimated that a majority of people may even have the virus already and show zero to little symptoms.
 
Weird; my local grocery store is way better stocked this week than it was two weeks ago.

Also there's no legitimate reason for food shortages to occur unless we're talking about imported foods.

It was strange because we did not even have the dreaded toilet paper shortages in the grocery stores near me.
Just went to the grocery store yesterday and everything was fully stocked.

I will see if I can find the news footage and give you a link.

The story right after that was 6.5 something earthquake in Idaho.
We just had a 5.4 here in Utah and are still having aftershocks.
 
Being honest though, while i don't agree with australias gun laws. I am kinda happy it's not quite as easy as most of the US at this current moment.

I don't wanna universally disarm people, I just don't wanna get shot by panicing morons either.

I dont believe you can disarm criminals, ive seen too many armed criminals to think it works. But they definitely have disarmed your average moron.

And while i think it could have been done better, i do feel a bit better about it i must admit.
 
Being honest though, while i don't agree with australias gun laws. I am kinda happy it's not quite as easy as most of the US at this current moment.

I don't wanna universally disarm people, I just don't wanna get shot by panicing morons either.

I dont believe you can disarm criminals, ive seen too many armed criminals to think it works. But they definitely have disarmed your average moron.

And while i think it could have been done better, i do feel a bit better about it i must admit.
If there was some way to screen, like a moron-detector wand, that'd be great... but there isn't. I'd rather be armed myself and take my chances than let only criminals have weapons.
 
Yeah, there's like totally no grey area in between those extremes. And they can actually forcibly detain you in some places if you test positive for a coronavirus. How do you even know that the testing is accurate? There's a multitude of reports of inaccurate testing. One English group estimated that a majority of people may even have the virus already and show zero to little symptoms.

The way i see it. The requirements for oversight and review and our democratic systems increase the more the degree to which freedom is threatened.

So say, putting you in jail for a year is a serious consequence meriting serious oversight. While a parking fine has far less oversight because the consequence of mistakes is lower.

Thats the balance i use to judge this stuff by.

By and large the primary risk of false positive in most places is being obligated to stay home a couple weeks. Thats a low risk from false accusation. Which is why I'm more tolerant of it.

If someone feels their rights have been violated, i still support being able to take it to court, there should be consequences for government fuckups.

But im not up in arms over telling people to stay home.

Its about being reasonable as opposed to extreme.
 
Looks like good 'ol Nazism is back packaged up in a different wrapper!

Watch at how they're going to come out with even more ludicrous/ridiculous policies to enforce upon us, and watch how willingly people accept it (and like the good authoritarian followers that they are - enforce them onto their fellow folk).
THIS.

I thought I was living in America.

I understand what we're "supposed to be doing", and understand the reasoning. But I want to work, and I need health care. They won't give me either, and expect me to wither away for the upper classes of society to continue being rich? :LOL:

ALL THEY HAD TO DO WAS GIVE ME A BOTTLE OF HYPNOTICS. I'm sure the < $10 cost was too much for the nazi state to afford considering the billions of $$$ wasted on the racist border wall, or the $$$ put into shutting the economy down... :cautious:
 
How many people need to die for such actions to be warranted? Also, just cause someone was gonna die anyway doesn't seem to mean a whole lot. The only way I can see to argue that is to argue that you are no more likely to die now as a result of this virus than if the virus hadn't existed. Which doesn't seem likely.

Cause if that's not the case, just because the person might just as easily have died from a flu, being more likely than usual to get such a virus to start with still means their life may have been extended. Unless you're saying they were literally gonna die at any moment anyway.

But how does that track when you consider that there also seems reason to believe that a lot of deaths that could be from covid 19 aren't actually being checked? Are saying that's just not true?

9/11 also seems kinda like a bad example.

You can't simply argue that you're becoming more authoritarian forever, and that you're never becoming less authoritarian.

How much freer were you really just before the virus, as opposed to say 1999?

Seems kinda like pointing out that freedoms can be reduced in emergencies, which is true, and sometimes it goes too far or is poorly thought out, also true. But just subtly ignoring examples of those freedoms being returned non violently, painting a misleading picture of an ever more oppressive state.

I can think of lots of ways societies have gotten freer since 9/11. Marijuana laws just for a start.

Id also be honestly curious to see how you're figuring that millions won't die.
In 1999 everyone was freer than 2001, in 2019 we will realise everyone was freer than 2020 but we will only realise afterewards, the frog does not notice the water temperature increasing .

The trend is relentless loss of freedom and increasing control, which is occassionally reset by wars or other major disruptions.

millions worldwide or millions in USA? Please be specific and I can answer. roughlly 100 million people die every year excess mortality due to Covid 19 is the question you are really asking and I think it will be just a tiny blip.
 
THIS.

I thought I was living in America.

I understand what we're "supposed to be doing", and understand the reasoning. But I want to work, and I need health care. They won't give me either, and expect me to wither away for the upper classes of society to continue being rich? :LOL:

ALL THEY HAD TO DO WAS GIVE ME A BOTTLE OF HYPNOTICS. I'm sure the < $10 cost was too much for the nazi state to afford considering the billions of $$$ wasted on the racist border wall, or the $$$ put into shutting the economy down... :cautious:

For what it's worth, a lot of rich are losing money too. It's just they have a lot to lose.

Also, you are living in america. The same america that interned the japanese. That has experienced previous pandemics with similar responses.

I love america but none of this is new.
 
Kinda feels like I'm in the early stages of the Third Reich. Nobody realized then at the time what was going on. They welcomed the new rules. I can't even go to a Passover seder at my friend's house. I'm healthy and never get sick.

But im not up in arms over telling people to stay home.
I know, and this is why some people are stressing
 
For what it's worth, a lot of rich are losing money too.
I'll cry when they lose their lives, not their bank account. Money is practically useless without a healthy body to spend it.

I don't support what the feds did to the Japanese Americans, I think that's pretty fucking terrible. I can't go back in time before I was born and stop things though.
 
I can't even go to a Passover seder at my friend's house. I'm healthy and never get sick.
You still totally can, and likely will get there just fine bro.

The key is to know THE STORY.

You're going GROCERY SHOPPING, all the stores are out of toilet paper, beef, whatever and you are like "but I have a list! I need food and toilet paper!" and you're not used to "this part of town, not sure where the stores are..."

You have rights you just have to be one step ahead of the nazi state.

It is very scary to just.. FORGET the constitution, civil rights, civil liberties, etc. I know.

People think I'm "selfish" for wanting you to have these civil rights... which is odd because I'm just one person not 300+ million Americans....
 
In 1999 everyone was freer than 2001, in 2019 we will realise everyone was freer than 2020 but we will only realise afterewards, the frog does not notice the water temperature increasing .

The trend is relentless loss of freedom and increasing control, which is occassionally reset by wars or other major disruptions.

millions worldwide or millions in USA? Please be specific and I can answer. roughlly 100 million people die every year excess mortality due to Covid 19 is the question you are really asking and I think it will be just a tiny blip.

Im speaking of the US. And im not saying definitely millions, just that at least one million is definitely on the table.

And you're arguing a tend by cherry picking the dates.

Now im cherry picking a bit here too but my argument isnt that we're trending to freedom but that there's no trend at all.

Since we mentioned gun laws, concealed carry laws have increased freedom since the 80s. The assault weapon ban sunset, as did various usa patriot act provisions. Marijuana was illegal everywhere in the US very recently.
 
From the Doctora in Spain (verified). Please read

I'm a specialist in family medicine, and have ER experience and primary health care experience from various regions in Spain, and specialized experience (I did heart surgery in Milan, BTW).

I'm also in the front line right now in the primary health care sector (health centers), but we receive updates from our local hospital. I can see how this mess is/was created and you can read my posts by going to my username and checking what I posted in this thread in the past.

One problem that has brought up multiple times in this thread already, is that they're not testing people because they consider the entire population suspect. Those tested are hospitalized patients. The international codes for this COVID-19 are as follows:

B34.2 for both COVID-19 confirmed cases and PROBABLE cases, and Z20.828 for possible cases and contacts of those who were confirmed and/or are probable cases.

We just finally received detailed instructions TODAY as to how to use these codes in our primary health care patients. Before that, a bunch of people got labelled B34.2 when they should have received the second code. It will be taken into account for statistical purposes even though the data is not reliable. And notice how those whose tests were inconclusive (probable cases), still get piled up with the confirmed cases.

I highlighted in your post the problem that seems to be compounding this madness. A lot of people that could be at home with primary health care follow ups are staying in the hospital when they have no criteria of hospitalization. That is a luxury that you can't take in countries like Italy or Spain which has a very elderly population that could go into respiratory failure even with a banal bug. There are a lot of comorbidities in our populations as well.

It's true that the COVID factor is playing a role in atypical pneumonias in younger people that can go into respiratory distress. But I don't see much difference from previous flu seasons where I had to sell an elderly patient to the ICU doctor and the later would say no, so he can keep the beds for the younger population. It is often the case that an elderly patient with multiple diseases just wants to pass away and not be reanimated. The mortality right now still doesn't seem to match the mortality from previous seasons.

Right now, the problem is the hysteria and the directives which are fuelling ALL patients to the hospital (see below). The fact remains, MOST people in the general population will not go into respiratory distress. Perspective should be kept as to not break the hospital system - they're the only ones with ICU beds!

In my regional hospital, there are now 6 COVID confirmed cases. Most of them could be at home, but one woman specifically, demanded to be in the hospital. Her husband died last night and he had COVID. However, he also had a pneumonectomy AND lung cancer. I'm pretty sure he will be labelled COVID death, but he was already dying before COVID. The specialist decided to keep other COVID cases, even though we could have followed them from their homes.

I worked today in the COVID circuit and didn't saw a SINGLE patient. Yesterday I worked in the non respiratory circuit at the health center, and saw only 2 patients. I phoned half a dozen people with the common cold, and none have breathing problems, they're all doing better by the day. Nevertheless, as per protocol and because COVID patients are recovering and then after one week, it hits them again, we're doing follow ups after one week.

Now, before all of this began, I was seeing up to 60 patients with either the flu or the common cold in just ONE morning. It was one patient after the other with respiratory symptoms as you just described. But due to the directives of this emergency, these patients are all going to the ER and/or hospital (instead to primary health care centers) or essentially, staying at home instead. Now I'm seeing none or 2 patients at the most per the entire day. Again, primary health care has been effectively shut down. And we do a very important job in avoiding decompensations that otherwise ends up in the hospital. My patients have stuff like heart failure, cancer, COPD, diabetes, high blood pressure, etc, and they need constant check-ups and follow ups. None of this is being done during the "national emergency". They're waiting at home. If something happens to them that can't be managed by phone, they have to go to the hospital. A good number of my patients have 6 diseases or more in one single body.

If the regional hospital doesn't let go of the MILD cases, they will soon be in very big trouble. I can think easily of 100-300 people in my post which covers 1500 patients (1900 if you count the ones in the elderly residency hospital) that will easily go into respiratory failure or get into trouble if their check-ups are withheld for longer and/or if they catch a cold. And yes, this COVID is highly contagious and has its peculiarities. Fact remains, people have multiple comorbidities and MOST people, specially those without comorbidities, will only have a mild form.

Now, anything that happens to anybody, has to be dealt by the emergency services in the hospital because they can't come to me, nor I can derive them to specialists the usual way. And never mind the people that I was following up every week because they had either anxiety or depression, and I was leaving them homework and listening to their problems as to prevent suicide attempts.

It's like cooking up a storm. They emphasize so much the work of primary health care, but you don't see that in the news these days. They need hospital heroes and stories of how ER staff doesn't have time to eat and how a ICU nurse committed suicide after testing positive for COVID. I have received phone calls from people that I haven't heard of in decades because they are concerned about my welfare, now that I have only seen like 2 patients per day. Whereas before, when I didn't have time to eat nor go to the toilet, or was spending up to 4 consecutive days working non stop (sleeping like 2 hours per night) and even dealing with 4 significant emergencies at the same time, they didn't care for me. Such is life.
 
World leaders encouraging Trump to make wearing a face mask in public mandatory WTF I THOUGHT I HAD CIVIL RIGHTS, why don't you just KEEP YOUR 6 FEET OF DISTANCE, BRO, why does society love getting all up on my nuts. NO MEANS NO lol.

Making the 6 foot personal space rule mandatory would make more sense. I can't imagine this nazi shit catching on here. Personal space seems like the fair thing to do and would allot everyone to have their personal space / freedom...

I don't need to get in someone else's grill they don't need to get in mine. Win/win.
 
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