Other dimensions

[Toltec]

Are you talking from a science perspective? because changing your wave frequency can be done but according to shroedingers equation and a much simpler equation i cant remember right now (my physics is a little rusty ) wave length and frequency are affected by mass and velocity, but i dont think that there are any theories that relate this to being able to help transition to other dimensions/universes.
Although if you arent talking from a science background then just ignore what i said because it probably sounded like utter dribble

edit: just for the record, i dont believe that drugs take us to other dimensions

I just said it although you never know, heh. I really don't think we can physically leave this 3rd dimension. I pretty much see it, where in these bodies until something happens, and you have to ascend. To who knows where.

I don't think drugs, takes us to other dimensions ether. Our imaginations while tripping may. Anyways we always do wake up as ourself afterwords. With new insights.
cheers

 

[psytaco]

Lets not kid ourselves. Psychdelic drugs are not portals into other dimensions they are just substances that alter perception, cognitive processes and other psychological constructs through varying our neurochemistry for a time. They are fun yes, and we can learn things about ourselves and the world that we may not have been able to learn or know where our brains operating in the manner that they do during normal consciousness. Meeting entities and entering other words are illusions created by the drug causing changes with how your brain perceives, organises and produces output to information- you are not actually entering another dimension.

 

[psychicpsycho]

"Meeting entities and entering other words are illusions created by the drug causing changes with how your brain perceives, organises and produces output to information- you are not actually entering another dimension."


I ask a simple question then.

Prove it.

This argument could go on forever. If you have seen (or believe to have seen) other dimensions and you think that what you saw was real. then It is real to you. it doesnt matter if its real to anyone else. you know you saw. I know what I saw and thats that.

Its kinda hard to disprove someone who has seen it touched it tasted it and felt it pervading every molecule of his body. Just kinda hard to argue with all your senses last time I checked thats how I determined if something was real to me.

 

[Psychedelics_r_best]

See we are all in our own realities. And when we arent paying attention another one will slowly creep up behind us and jump over our senses and replace the last one. It happens so fast and so often we dont even know it. Which contradicts my statement of this, but it happens continuosly. The compunding interest of existance. And that my friends, is reality.

 

[uni bum]

Lets not kid ourselves. Psychdelic drugs are not portals into other dimensions they are just substances that alter perception, cognitive processes and other psychological constructs through varying our neurochemistry for a time. They are fun yes, and we can learn things about ourselves and the world that we may not have been able to learn or know where our brains operating in the manner that they do during normal consciousness. Meeting entities and entering other words are illusions created by the drug causing changes with how your brain perceives, organises and produces output to information- you are not actually entering another dimension.

thats correct in your reality...
i have only seen the trailers of the movie "What the Bleep do We Know?", but from what i gathered of their argument, anytime you take psycs, you do enter a new dimension. This is because your reality is only what you percieve to be around you. So while other people will tell you that it was all in your head, you actually have created a new dimension. I think i just confused myself 8( :D

 

[BreakingSet]

In 1959, Luna 1 was the first man-made object to break free of Earth's gravity. That was not very long ago. What I'm getting at with no grace at all is that we don't know what tomorrow holds. The next "big thing", or the next completely new and exciting discovery will probably blow us all away. We are progressing so fast these days... .

Maybe, just maybe, all this shit we dream up while on psychedelics will prove someday to be a way into other realms: "Two men walking up a hill, one disappears and one's left standing still..."

And regardless of what eventually gets proven or disapproved, if you believe that something you dreamt teaches you about yourself, it's worth experiencing. Fantasy is a rich (beyond $$$) endeavor.

 

[BreakingSet]

See we are all in our own realities. And when we arent paying attention another one will slowly creep up behind us and jump over our senses and replace the last one. It happens so fast and so often we dont even know it. Which contradicts my statement of this, but it happens continuosly. The compunding interest of existance. And that my friends, is reality.

That, my friend, is a beautiful idea. (I just tried in my simpltonish way to apply the A=Pe^(rt) as a model of how social information retention/build-up would increase, but I'm too stupid to work it all the way through. If information really does compound, then it should [loosely?] apply.)

 

[Toltec]

Quote:
Originally Posted by psytaco
Lets not kid ourselves. Psychedelic drugs are not portals into other dimensions they are just substances that alter perception, cognitive processes and other psychological constructs through varying our neurochemistry for a time. They are fun yes, and we can learn things about ourselves and the world that we may not have been able to learn or know where our brains operating in the manner that they do during normal consciousness. Meeting entities and entering other words are illusions created by the drug causing changes with how your brain perceives, organizes and produces output to information- you are not actually entering another dimension.

thats correct in your reality...
i have only seen the trailers of the movie "What the Bleep do We Know?", but from what i gathered of their argument, anytime you take psycs, you do enter a new dimension. This is because your reality is only what you perceive to be around you. So while other people will tell you that it was all in your head, you actually have created a new dimension. I think i just confused myself

It's true that it is all in our heads, only! The body can't exist anywhere else, but in these 4 dimensions we have evolved with. Dimensions 5, 6, 7, etc... can't possibly support us. where bound to gravity, the pull of the moon yada yada. We cant exist any where off this planet ether, with out the help of machinery.

Now Just maybe it is possible to temporarily ascend into other dimensions just for the duration that the psychedelic is in us, through our consciousness our thoughts, by changing our frequencies or vibrations temporarily. But all of the physical parts of us cant leave this plane of reality we occupy. We're simply bound by the pressures this planet has on us and the common reality we all share.

That movie; What The Bleep Do We Know was interesting. In it, it describes how water holds an intent and we are made up of 92% water. Everything we say creates our future positive or negative. Just depends on the environment where born into. I really believe that the words we chose to use creates our reality. If you use them wisely, well then you shape your future depending on how you use words.

Astral projection anyone!

 

[uni bum]

It's true that it is all in our heads, only! The body can't exist anywhere else, but in these 4 dimensions we have evolved with. !

yes, the body is simply a part of the dimension that we spend most of our time in, i wasnt saying that we get physically transported to another dimension, infact i think you missed the point of my entire post

 

[Toltec]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toltec
It's true that it is all in our heads, only! The body can't exist anywhere else, but in these 4 dimensions we have evolved with. !


yes, the body is simply a part of the dimension that we spend most of our time in, i wasnt saying that we get physically transported to another dimension, infact i think you missed the point of my entire post

I wasn't quote'n you uni bum.
I was responding to psytaco!
namaste
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

 

[Adolfo]

There's a great article that tries to debunk the whole 'DMT elves from hyperspace' theory over at tripzine:
http://www.tripzine.com/articles.asp?id=dmt_pickover
No doubt many of you had already read it, but it is a good analysis of the experience from a reductionist yet not anti-drug view.

It's a good overview of the ideas you'd have to defend against if you argue for dimension travel from the science perspective.

 

[ek-stase]

I find it pretty sad when people start taking movies like "What the Bleep Do We Know?" seriously. While there is nothing wrong with ignorance, just checking out a few of the claims in the movie would show it to be largly non-sense, and it is this lack of checking ideas that is sad. For gods sake people they presented a spirit channeler as an authority on quantum mechanics (QM).
Further if you actually work through the equations, the strange QM effects smooth out very quickly and predict very regular mechanical workings at the level of cells, if not molecules.
Your brain is plenty complex to do this thing we call consciousness with neurons, there's really no need for QM explanations or other such non-sense. Same goes for the effects of psychedelics. Psychedelics are plenty interesting without postulating dimensional transport.

-ek

 

[illuminati boy]

I find it pretty sad when people start taking movies like "What the Bleep Do We Know?" seriously.

One would note that Dr. Stuart Hameroff and Dr. Goswami were both featured in What the Bleep. While one considers several of the concepts presented in the movie fairly far-fetched (if not outright discredited), much of the really spooky interesting stuff is in line with actual experiments &/or theory related to quantum mechanics.

Your brain is plenty complex to do this thing we call consciousness with neurons, there's really no need for QM explanations or other such non-sense. Same goes for the effects of psychedelics.

One would argue that the more one seriously delves into the topic of consciousness (specifically the work done on neural correlates of consciousness (NCC), 1st vs 3rd person methodologies etc.), the more one seems drawn to either deny consciousness or recognize it as a fundamental property of reality… both seem rather extreme, but the middle ground of consciousness as an emergent process from simple neurochemical interactions appears out the window. To take Chalmers’ phrasing the ‘easy problem’ of how different parts of the brain work is progressing rapidly… but the ‘hard problem’ of consciousness itself is still as vexing as it was to the first primate to gaze at the sky and wonder…

I B

 

[nanobrain]

consciousness is the primary definer of reality, the collapser of the quantum probability waveform. yet the mind may not necessarily reside in / be constrained by the body, with implications on both cosciousness and reality. Read Rupert Sheldrake.

BTW, y'all dont have to take either writ word or filmed concept as gospel - just ideas solidified, some better than others.

paradigms change or get overthrown, in an evolutionary or revolutionary fashion, the magic of today is the science of tomorrow.

my 7 giant magic elephants are tired of holding up this flat world...

 

[subdefy]

^ nanobrain can you possibly give me / this thread a list of what your saying in laymen's (sp?) terms? Or point us to some book b/c to me it looks like trip dribble but I can't really completely say that until I fully look into what it is your actually saying b/c you said What the (bleep) was a Good film when in actuality it was just a decent amount of misinformation presented in a way in which the scientists who participatedi n the film did not agree with.

 

[illuminati boy]

Gödel Incompleteness Theorem. Read it… Understand it… Shudder… Rejoice... Wonder…

If Kant was awakened from his dogmatic slumber by Hume, one could chance to say much the same of Gödel.

I B

 

[ek-stase]

consciousness is the primary definer of reality, the collapser of the quantum probability waveform.

This is just one way of interpreting data and a pretty bad and mystical one at that. This is just the old trick of explaining something hard to understand (consciousness) using something else hard to understand (QM). Consciousness is so ill defined it makes no sense to assign it some magical role in collapsing waveforms. Few, if any, respected physicists take this idea seriously and for good reason.
"There is no quantum world. There is only an abstract physical description. It is wrong to think that the task of physics is to find out how nature is. Physics concerns what we can say about nature." -Bohr

For more on QM interpretations:
http://www.quantum.bowmain.com/Quantum_Reality.htm

And regarding paradigm shifts, yes our understanding of consciousness will need one to progress, the QM tree is just the wrong one to bark up.

To IB:
Consciousness means so many things it really means hardly anything at all. "Experience" is I think a better word and captures dream and waking states and is in essence the hard problem. How can a system experience itself in the way that we do? And what does it mean to recognise consciousness as a fundamental property of reality? Do you recognise "life" as such? And is "life" not an emergent property of physical interactions? I think the two problems, life and consciousness overlap considerably.

But if you ask me, the real fundamental problem is the act of description itself. No description on one coherent level of analysis (eg. physics, chemistry, biology, psychology) is going to satisfy us, nor will some admixture. Any "solution" to "consciousness" is just going to be ink on paper at the end of the day and people would continue to experience without it. Which leaves the real goal of science, power (predictive or manipulative) over the phenomenon, in this case experience!

-ek

 

[nanobrain]

^^subdefy, jeez, do I have to do all the hard work for y’all? ok then:

http://twm.co.nz/hologram.html - link as reposted by psychedelicious

http://www.rialian.com/rnboyd/dna-wave.doc - Gariaev’s paper on quantum holographic DNA biocomputer

http://twm.co.nz/DNAPhantom.htm - Gariaev’s DNA phantom experiments (DNA emits radio signals after physical death)

http://www.emergentmind.org/jnlrmi_i(3).htm – good review of the whole topic

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qm-manyworlds/ - QM many worlds interp as done by Stanford Uni.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qt-entangle/ - QM Entanglement, by the same folks.

http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/barbour/barbour_p1.html - time does not exist! talk w/Julian Barbour, author of The End of Time

vegan, HUP: dp x dx > h / (2 x pi) = Planck's constant / (2 x pi) – location vs momentum – the act of observation (pinpointing) changes the nature of the observed – same same.

 

[nanobrain]

^^ek, "life" is not in and of itself in any way "an emergent property of physical interactions." full stop.

oh, and i dont believe replacing one hard to define term (consciousness) with another (experience) helps much. ie whose experience? the question is begged. what does "experience" without consciousness mean? getting analprobed while you are asleep? infinite regress, again. think in terms of symbolic logic, its easier.

and where you get off sayin' "respected" physicists place no merit in consciousness vs Heizenberg? respected by who and for what? for making every conceivable mistake in a very narrow field to become so called "experts"? and does something have to be "defined" in order to "exist"? what if your referential framework is not capable of dealing with certain cocepts due to inherent self-limitations? refer to my earlier computer analogy. but i digress and rant.

P.S. Richard P. Feynman on quantum mechanics: "The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be."

 

[uni bum]

I find it pretty sad when people start taking movies like "What the Bleep Do We Know?" seriously. While there is nothing wrong with ignorance, just checking out a few of the claims in the movie would show it to be largly non-sense, and it is this lack of checking ideas that is sad. For gods sake people they presented a spirit channeler as an authority on quantum mechanics (QM).
Further if you actually work through the equations, the strange QM effects smooth out very quickly and predict very regular mechanical workings at the level of cells, if not molecules.
Your brain is plenty complex to do this thing we call consciousness with neurons, there's really no need for QM explanations or other such non-sense. Same goes for the effects of psychedelics. Psychedelics are plenty interesting without postulating dimensional transport.

-ek

do you actually have an actual scientific understanding of QM? Because if you did im sure that if you did you would not say that QM effects are comparable to regular mechanics. Disregarding the whole inter-dimensional thing, QM was discovered/worked out because of phenomena that regular mechanics/physics couldnt understand. So to say that QM is like regular mechanics is misguided at best.