• Life Advice & Visual Arts Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    🌌 Share Your Dreams! 🌌
    📸 15 Years of Photo Contests 📸
  • LAVA Moderator: Mysterier

Organic Chem

PlurredChemistry said:
trust me, you won't have to do physical organic. you'll do pchem, which is enough of a bitch on its own.

pchem isn't so bad, it actually is pretty cool <sarcasm?> it just makes no intinutative sense, but it WORKS, so we use it.

so, is kittyinthedark some sort of schrodingers cat reference?

evil evil living/dead cat. urgh.
Click to expand...

Well, I haven't looked into it too much, so you might be right. What exactly does p-chem stand for then, and how is it different from physical organic chemistry? All I know is that I will be taking the class at some point.
 
Physical Chemistry is the physics of chemistry. More specifically, the quantum physics of chemistry. I haven't taken P-chem, but I think you go into detail about molecular orbitals and do all the quantum calculations.
 
Enlitx said:
Well, I haven't looked into it too much, so you might be right. What exactly does p-chem stand for then, and how is it different from physical organic chemistry? All I know is that I will be taking the class at some point.
Click to expand...

look at protovac's avatar, that is the result of physical organic chemistry.

we know that carbon (or everything in row 2) has a valence shell of 2s, 2px, 2py & 2pz. this knowledge comes from phyical chemistry (pretty much it is just physics at this point - mostly complicated electrostatics).

taking it a step further, we know that these orbitals hybridize to form 4sp3 orbitals to bond with the 1s orbitals of the 4 hydrogens surrounding the carbon. this comes from physical chemistry too.

now physical ORGANIC chemistry is pretty much everything that comes from here involving organic compounds - usually looking at the bonding that arises between compounds. often this is calculating the change in energy/entropy when reactions happen, specifically HOMO/LUMO interactions (which explain everything)

now i don't know this shit very well. i did my year of pchem and promptly forgot it as it isn't needed for the type of chemistry i used to be interested in.(natural product synthesis/drug design/god i'm such a BLer)
 
PlurredChemistry said:
look at protovac's avatar, that is the result of physical organic chemistry.

we know that carbon (or everything in row 2) has a valence shell of 2s, 2px, 2py & 2pz. this knowledge comes from phyical chemistry (pretty much it is just physics at this point - mostly complicated electrostatics).

taking it a step further, we know that these orbitals hybridize to form 4sp3 orbitals to bond with the 1s orbitals of the 4 hydrogens surrounding the carbon. this comes from physical chemistry too.

now physical ORGANIC chemistry is pretty much everything that comes from here involving organic compounds - usually looking at the bonding that arises between compounds. often this is calculating the change in energy/entropy when reactions happen, specifically HOMO/LUMO interactions (which explain everything)

now i don't know this shit very well. i did my year of pchem and promptly forgot it as it isn't needed for the type of chemistry i used to be interested in.(natural product synthesis/drug design/god i'm such a BLer)
Click to expand...

Do you go into this stuff in great, great mathematical detail? I ask because we covered hybrid orbitals last year, and in Organic Chem II (which I am currently taking), the HOMO and LUMO bonding scheme is what we are studying now. For example, concerted reactions and why a 2pi 2pi addition of ethylene molecules wont work according to orbital theory. 1,3-butadiene + ethylene can make a six membered ring because of proper symmetry, blah blah. All of that stuff is familiar, so I am guessing those classes must go into it with mathematical detail.
 
I am interested in Chemistry, specifically Organic Chem. but I have very little education on the subject, anyone have any good references?
 
^^^
http://www.cem.msu.edu/~reusch/VirtualText/intro1.htm

This is a free online Organic Chemistry Textbook.

Diels-Alder has been one of my favorite reactions so far, I like how cyclopentadiene reacts with itself. But when we went into the HOMO/LUMO stuff I was like "WTF." It's all too abstract for me, because I don't know the math behind it. I can memorize it, and sort of figure out that you have bonding and antibonding with more nodes as you increase in energy level - but WHY it all works I have no clue.

We're doing spectroscopy this week. It's like solving a puzzle....deducing the structure from the NMR spectrum. Less abstract, more fun, and it's a change of pace after slogging through electrophilic aromatic substitution.
 
Last edited:
protovack said:
^^^
http://www.cem.msu.edu/~reusch/VirtualText/intro1.htm

This is a free online Organic Chemistry Textbook.

Diels-Alder has been one of my favorite reactions so far, I like how cyclopentadiene reacts with itself. But when we went into the HOMO/LUMO stuff I was like "WTF." It's all too abstract for me, because I don't know the math behind it. I can memorize it, and sort of figure out that you have bonding and antibonding with more nodes as you increase in energy level - but WHY it all works I have no clue.

We're doing spectroscopy this week. It's like solving a puzzle....deducing the structure from the NMR spectrum. Less abstract, more fun, and it's a change of pace after slogging through electrophilic aromatic substitution.
Click to expand...

I had no problem with the HOMO/LUMO stuff, but reading HNMR and CNMR graphs along with MS and IR graphs is a bitch. The concept isn't too hard, but the work can really suck.
 
I've taken 2 orgo classes, and the best advice I havre is to not memorize the reactions just learn which species will attack which species from the electron movement. This worked out real well for me as I aced both classes.
 
^3 posts^That link is sweet because I go to MSU, I have taken Orgo I & II and I have been to that site. I really enjoyed organic chemistry. There is very little math and you learn a bunch about drugs. Orgo is definitely a time consuming subject, but all sciences are. I really enjoyed the drawing aspect and how you had to learn how to "look" at molecules in your head. I'm a junior majoring in Human Biology and Orgo has been my favorite science requirement so far (besides Anatomy & Physiology, which have to do directly with my future career). I have probably forgotten more than I can remember now, but the experience was awesome and Orgo, in particular, really taught me how to prepare for a college class.
 
El Guapo said:
^3 posts^That link is sweet because I go to MSU, I have taken Orgo I & II and I have been to that site. I really enjoyed organic chemistry. There is very little math and you learn a bunch about drugs. Orgo is definitely a time consuming subject, but all sciences are. I really enjoyed the drawing aspect and how you had to learn how to "look" at molecules in your head. I'm a junior majoring in Human Biology and Orgo has been my favorite science requirement so far (besides Anatomy & Physiology, which have to do directly with my future career). I have probably forgotten more than I can remember now, but the experience was awesome and Orgo, in particular, really taught me how to prepare for a college class.
Click to expand...

Aside from the bonding and electron distribution of the molecule, you don't learn a whole lot about drugs. That is to say, the pharmacology and interations that make a drug interesting are beyond the scope of organic chemistry.
 
I took it and now I TA it at a big university. Find a place with good lab equipment, the lab is one of the most important parts of ochem. (Also, if you can, find a place that uses a text that's not brand new so you can get it cheaper off the internet... textbooks cost a lot). I took mine at a small, private liberal arts/science college in claremont, california, and it was great. If you take it at a large state university, expect a really big class and you will probably be partially taught by TA's (that what I am doing now) along with the PhD prof. I liked my school because it was small enough that we didn't have TA's, only PhD profs, and I felt it was a better education than what students are getting where I TA.
 
You know, you guys are right about the lab equipment. My professor is awesome and the lecture section rules but labs can be frustrating.

For example, we only have 3 mel-temps in a separate room that gets hot as hell. We have to get melting points all the time and usually there are 10 people in line...takes forever.

Or, we have 6 GC units that are really old, have really variable sensitivity, and are hooked up to really old printers that barely work.

There are 20 people in my lab section and it is so crowded...today I dropped my vacuum sublimator, costing me 20 bucks!!

Of course what do you expect for an undergrad lab section...you are there to learn the basics, and at times, get a little frustrated. I always get my product in the end so it's not that bad...
 
If you want to use the best equipment go to a research based institution.

I took organic chem and they had amazing equipment. Sure there are 800 other kids in your orgo class, and you might never speak to your professor but that is how I like it.

The subject is awesome. If you can memorize you can do orgo. Its low on math (almost no math involved except in organic kinetics). It isn't an easy subject by any means but enlightening for sure.
 
Last edited:
I guess I am pretty lucky, I am in Honors Organic II right now, and we have always had stellar labs, even for undergrads. We have one melting point device and electric thermometer for every two people in the lab, five new GC rigs per floor (although you have to wait in line to use those), and the professor I work for is getting a brand new mass spectrometer to replace his old one. We are a major research university though, so you would expect this kind of thing. They actually tried to sit me down and show me how to operate the mass spec one time, all in two hours. Ya, that didn't work out.
 
85% on exam 2(spectroscopy, organometallics, alcohols)!!!! Yea BABY! That's an A-!
 
I took orgo 1 last semester. I did very well, although it does require a bit of work. My advice... def don't miss class! Like, if you tend to miss your morning classes this semester, DO NOT schedule it in the morning next semester.

One class missed can cause you to fall way behind.

I too am biochem major, and orgo comprises a wide array of the topics needed for this.

Also, form study groups! A lot of concepts can be explained in different ways... and some people may understand mechanisms better than you while you understand applications better than them.

It helps to combine resources.

I attend a university where the lecture and the lab are different classes, which I like because you 're not too overwhelmed with the lecture tests and the experiements at once. I would advise taking the lecture first andthen the lab so you have a full understanding of the mechanisms involved for each reaction.

Good luck
 
I'm taking OChem 1 and 2 w/ the labs next year, glad to hear that it's light on math. I don't dislike math, I'm just intimidated by it, because it's one thing that doesn't come intuitively.
 
i am currently in my second semester O-Chem class. i love the class, but it is very competitive at my school, and while i find it incredibly fascinating, there are many people much better at it than myself
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top