Opioids Opium Poppies - How to tell?

[Swimmingdancer]

I do not encourage "liberating" poppies from people's yards, farms, etc. But as to the question of how to tell opium poppies from other poppies, there are a number of tips to identify them (I don't believe explaining what a particular plant looks like falls under "substance ID" but please correct me if I'm wrong).

All opium poppies are Papaver somniferum. Where the names get complicated are that there are several varieties, which are sometimes classed as sub-species, and so you may see different names, like Papaver somniferum Paeoniflorum Group is sometimes called Papaver paeoniflorum, and Papaver somniferum Laciniatum Group is sometimes called Papaver laciniatum.

The best way to tell an opium poppy from another type of poppy is that opium poppies - Papaver somniferum - are tall, have a bluish/grey tinge to their leaves, are not hairy, and have round smooth pods. Some other poppies will be the same height, but most other types of poppies are hairy, have greener leaves, or have different shaped or sized pods. More detailed info is below.

What an opium poppy looks like:
1. Height: Papaver somniferum are quite tall, usually around 3-5 feet when mature, which is taller than many other poppies.
2. Petals: Papaver somniferum has 4 to 8 petals. The most common colors are white, pink, red and purple (often with a darker spot near the base of each petal). The Paeoniflorum type has frilly double petals that look similar to a peony.
3. Center: Look at the center of the bloom. Papaver somniferum has 8 to 14 long rays on the stigma, which is more than many other poppies. The stigma is the part in the center (on top of the pod) which looks like like rays coming out from the center, ending in points. See photo:

It is extremely rare for there to be a "style" - a sort of stem shape - between the ovary/pod and the stigmatic disc, the disc is almost always sits directly on top of the ovary/pod in Papaver somniferum. (Google image search "parts of a flower" to understand what I mean). *However, this does not mean that all poppies without styles are P. somniferum.
4. Leaves: Papaver somniferum typically have several erect leaves on the stalk that are oblong with toothed edges. Leaves have serrated edges that clasp at the base. Leaves will be often be grey-green or blue-green - although a couple types are just green - and the leaves are larger than most other poppies, they can be up to 6" across. Stalks will not be very hairy, unlike some other types of poppies.
5. Pods: The pods typically range in size between 1" and 1&1/2", which is larger than many other poppies. The pods are quite spherical (as opposed to some other types of poppies) and will have a wide, disc-shaped stigma, the multi-pointed star-like shaped top on top of the round, smooth pod (see above).
6. Seeds: If you break the pod open once dry, opium poppy seeds should be small, oily and have a grey, tan, black or blue colour. If they are blue, then the plant is almost certainly a P. somniferum, *but not all P. sominferum seeds are blue of course.
6. Look at some photos of Papaver somniferum to get a general idea of the different types and what they look like. *Make sure the photos are actually P. somniferum as I have occasionally seen some photos of other types of poppies wrongly labelled online.

Are poppies toxic?
As to whether consuming the latex or tea etc from the wrong type of poppies can harm you, the correct type of poppies can harm you, as it is possible to overdose or be allergic. People have died from overdosing on opium poppy tea. But I assume you are asking if other types of poppies are more toxic than opium poppies or contain toxic alkaloids not found in opium poppies? I know that the Mexican prickly poppy, Argemone mexicana, is poisonous (although it is used medicinally in small amounts by some cultures), but it looks nothing like an opium poppy. I'll see if I can find out some more info on the toxicity of other varieties of poppies, as I think that would be very useful info for people.

Some types of poisonous poppies:

Papaver bracteatum - contains high levels of thebaine, which is a stimulant and can cause convulsions (similar to strychnine poisoning). Thebaine is present in small amounts in opium poppies but P. bracteatum has much higher levels. P. Bracteatum grows to about the same height as P. somniferum. It has 6 petals which are bright red (maybe with a slight orangish tint sometimes) with a black blotch at the base, and black stigma. The stalks, buds and leaves are very hairy, unlike P. somniferum. That is probably the main way to tell them apart.

Papaver nudicaule - causes ataxia and muscle tremors. Contains the benzophenanthidine alkaloid, chelidonine, and other alkaloids. A smaller poppy, it comes in a number of different colours and has hairy stems, usually around 1 foot tall (although some varieties can grow up to 2 feet).

Papaver aculeatum - may cause nitrate/nitrite poisoning. A smaller poppy, it is usually orange and around 1 foot tall (although some varieties can grow up to 2 feet). Has long spiny hairs and a thin elongated pod.

*I will add more to this list if I find more.

 

[Tryptamino]

Really? I don't know how things go down in Poland but in other parts of the world, they keep a better eye on the opium poppy fields, people who go to steal are shot on sight.

lol yup, i got questioned by an officer when i was looking at a few opium poppy plants in an urban area. He thought i was from the cartel lmao, he looked at my ID and saw my name and said "THIS ISN'T YOUR FUCKING NAME, YOU'RE NOT FOOLING ANYONE! WHAT'S YOUR REAL NAME, CARLOS? PABLO?" (he probably did this because my name, is very clearly english, but I'm part italian and brazilian, so he thought I was mexican with a fake identity) and I eventually had to get my parents to come and talk to this guy. I still ended up taking the poppies though lol

funny how LAPD thinks everybody is from the cartel. American paranoia is kinda funny.

Don't eat poppies, they are not meant to be eaten and moreover everything but the seeds taste like shit.

"Liberating" flowers from people's gardens is an asshole move too.

P. somiferum is primarily identified by its waxy grayish, jagged leaves, lack of hairs on the stem, (most often) bright red or white petals.

not true, many people i know eat dried poppies, and I have heard of people using it that way traditionally.

I found a bunch of poppies in front of my friends neighbor's house one time (same time as I got questioned my ), and I made them into a tea, but barely felt any effects. there was no "tar" visible so i couldn't smoke it. Probably wasn't ripe.

If it looks like this:

Then it's an opium poppy. I don't think there are any other species of poppy that could be confused with it by appearance.

I wouldn't eat the poppy though, as morphine (one of the two main active opiates found in opium) has a very poor oral availability. Poke the pod with a pin and if it's ripe, a gooey substance will come out from the spot where you poked. If you do this succesfully, poke several different holes like the first one, and let it dry. when the goo is dry, scrape it off and put it in your pipe and smoke it.

 

[THC2LSD]

Great post Swimmingdancer. Just a couple things. Most fun somniferums have 4 petals. And it's nigrums that have dark seeds, usually blue. Album have white to tan seeds. Sometimes Nigrums have light seeds if harvested early, like white to orange.

The one that I know is toxic is Papaver Bracteatum Lindl, the Iranian poppy. It's named that because the flowers have leaves under them called bracts. The petals are usually red or orang with very dark purple or black towards the middle. It makes pinnate leaves, a bunch of smaller leaves, as opposed to Somniferum, which have large leaves like lettuce. It's a perennial that usuall flower in two years, although there are strains, mutants and tricks to get them to flower in the first year. Have read that somniferums can also turn semi-perennial in cold climates. Also the bract's pod's crown is usually purple.

The pods produces a strong "bractium" with a whopping 28- 55% of, thebaine. Roots have .25-1.3% thebaine. Theoretical yields of thebaine are 15to 56kg per hectare, better than Somniferum's yield for opium which is 10-60kg a hectare. Only lacking one or two enzymes in Somniferums to finish the job and make morphine. Sadly most Bracteatum hybrids with Somniferum made so far aren't very fertile and rather whimpy, not sure about Segtigerum/Bracteatum hybrids.

Big pharma did a pilot field with Iranian poppies in Tasmania, also some studies were conducted in Turkey and Israel, don't know how they turned out.

Funny thing is Nixon wanted to use Iranian poppies to replace opium poppies for codeine production, since thebaine can't be used to get high or for making heroin. Either was going to get Turkey to switch or grow them on military bases. The scraped the plan due to fears of Bentley compounds, which would make heroin seem benign by comparison.

Thebaine itself is a potent convulsant like strychnine, not sure how. It does have very weak opiate effects due to conversion to oripavine that are overshadowed by it's strong toxic stimulant properties. Still an interesting compound, lots of stuff it can do. Fuck Mallinckrodt, GSK, and PURDUE!

Bigfanofthemdrugs, racist ass pigs can go fuck themselves with a hot broken crackpipe! FUCK A COP!

there was no "tar" visible so i couldn't smoke it. Probably wasn't ripe.

Opium usually doesn't look like tar, more like milk or syrup when still wet. Sometimes it's various shades of brown(no pun intended), yellow, pink, red, or even clear; Clear opium isn't stronger but was highly sought after by Turkish hopheads.

That picture looks like a poppy that wasn't thinned properly and wasn't ready to be milked. Also he/she cut too deep. The opium doesn't flow into the pod with deep cuts, it stops flowing at all due to a loss of pressure.Better to be too shallow than too deep. It's more like scratching then cutting. That's why a good lancing tool is essential, probably why everyone gets shitty yields. For example did you know that Afghans have two depths of lancers. They do a shallower cut for the first 4 lancings, the do deeper cuts to compensate for growth and reach the deeper lactifers in the later 2 or more cuts.

Best is to cut horizontally, because the opium flows upwards from the roots to the top of the pod; the precursors convert to morphine and codeine in the stem and especially the pod. However if you don't have a good opium scrapper it's easy to accidentally get caught on the pod and ripe it open, eliminating opium flow. Vertical is easier to do and easier to collect.

I wouldn't eat the poppy though, as morphine (one of the two main active opiates found in opium) has a very poor oral availability.

Relatively low bioavailability doesn't mean shit to be honest. I mean THC, nicotine, methylphenidate, GHB and alcohol all have very low bioavailability, yet no one say to smoke(except THC/nicotine), plug or IV them. Laudanum works great, eating, drinking or subligually works great too. Although if you have real opium I'd say smoke it, because it's one of the most aesthetically pleasing things to smoke.

Poke the pod with a pin and if it's ripe, a gooey substance will come out from the spot where you poked. If you do this succesfully, poke several different holes like the first one, and let it dry.

They do that in some countries. I think they use something like a tracing wheel. It'd be more stealthy too for the oppressed and/or paranoid.

A similar method is described in that one Opium Poppy Garden Chinese farmer books, only when it really starts bleeding they make horizontal cuts all around, leaving a small gap to let the juices flow up. Not sure if it works.

People think opium harvester are dumb illiterate peasants or child laborers. They're actually skilled workers who've mastered the art of milking. You have to be taught by someone you know, often they start in their early 20's. They don't time each pod and say,"Oh it's been 14 days it ready," there's thousands of pods. They go by looks and feel quickly. They notice subtle shit that isn't often written about, for they don't have book smarts but experience. The best one's probably can't write a guide, at least in western languages.

 

[Br1tannia]

There were a couple dozen opium poppies (i'm pretty sure they were) growing at the bus stop down the road from my house, they recently did some gardening work and must have planted them. Really considered liberating them haha but didn't in the end because i couldn't be sure if they were the right ones

 

[damenohito]

>THC2LSD: i'm pretty sure what i'm seeing here are p. paeoniflorium, but i don't think they are ikkanshu as you suggested. what have been finding here has pink/reddish-pink, heavily lobed flowers compared to ikkanshu's simpler, 4-8 lobed purplish flowers.

this would help explain lower potency, but i have to admit that i was eating two 100mg ABG per set about a month ago so my tolerance was probably all hell. most of the poppies i see here are p. rhoeas and grow wild. the p. paeoniflorium i spy grow often randomly (i.e. close proximity but different location from one year to the next), but are usually well cared for when they turn up on an individual's property so i think there is little, if any hybridization therefore any reduction in potency. in fact, some of the plants that turn up in the same spots year after year are bigger and more gorgeous than before and it makes my belly tingle just looking at them. i had decent results yesterday with 5 pods, but think i will also experiment with rhoeadine extraction as a wtfn activity.

also, thanks for the correction on my temp. i never use boiling H20, but i've tried everything from cold to hot-to-touch H20; never boiling. 160 C would be hotter than fuck; obviously, i'm from one of only three countries left in the world that still use the english-standard and it's been a while since i've done conversion factors. vinegar may be overkill, but i'm neurotic like that when it comes to my opies. finally, i would like to comment on the original post and say that it would be ok to eat the pods; as i do not have a coffee grinder, i will munch the chopped pods when i feel they've been washed thoroughly. fiber-a-plenty; don't worry about constipation! cheers.

 

[THC2LSD]

^Those are definitely paeoniflorum. They're more for aesthetics than opiates, though like all papaver somniferums it has alkaloids. If it was decent with five that isn't too bad.

There is also another papaver species in Japan, Papaver miyabeanum aka the Japanese poppy. Doesn't look anything like somniferums.

I tried growing some paeoniflorums but they died. Dutch poppies seem to be tougher. How long do the pretty flowers last with paeoniflorum?

I wonder if paeoniflorum can be crossed with an opium type to produce both a pretty flower and opiates?

Is there still legitimate Ikkanshu poppies around? Are they extinct or locked up in a lab somewhere?

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Great post Swimmingdancer. Just a couple things. Most fun somniferums have 4 petals. And it's nigrums that have dark seeds, usually blue. Album have white to tan seeds. Sometimes Nigrums have light seeds if harvested early, like white to orange.

That's true Sorry if my post was unclear, I wasn't implying that more petals or blue seeds were better, just that if the poppy has blue seeds or lots of petals, then it's almost definitely a P. somniferum [EDIT: Actually, that was just what I was told but I believe there may be some other poppies that have a lot of petals as well]. Most P. somniferum do have only 4 petals. Do you think I should re-word anything in my post to make this more clear?

The one that I know is toxic is Papaver Bracteatum Lindl, the Iranian poppy. It's named that because the flowers have leaves under them called bracts. The petals are usually red or orang with very dark purple or black towards the middle. It makes pinnate leaves, a bunch of smaller leaves, as opposed to Somniferum, which have large leaves like lettuce. It's a perennial that usuall flower in two years, although there are strains, mutants and tricks to get them to flower in the first year. Have read that somniferums can also turn semi-perennial in cold climates. Also the bract's pod's crown is usually purple.

The pods produces a strong "bractium" with a whopping 28- 55% of, thebaine. Roots have .25-1.3% thebaine. Theoretical yields of thebaine are 15to 56kg per hectare, better than Somniferum's yield for opium which is 10-60kg a hectare. Only lacking one or two enzymes in Somniferums to finish the job and make morphine. Sadly most Bracteatum hybrids with Somniferum made so far aren't very fertile and rather whimpy, not sure about Segtigerum/Bracteatum hybrids.

Good to know. So the reason P. bracteatum is poisonous is because of the high levels of thebaine, which is a stimulant and can cause convulsions (similar to strychnine poisoning) at high doses?

Papaver Bracteatum grows to about the same height as P. somniferum. It has 6 petals which are bright red (maybe with a slight orangish tint sometimes) with a black blotch at the base, and black stigma. The stalks, buds and leaves are very hairy, unlike P. somniferum. That is probably the main way to tell them apart.

I'll see if I can find any other poisonous poppies and add them here:

EDIT: more poisonous poppies:
Papaver nudicaule or "Iceland poppy" - causes ataxia and muscle tremors. Contains the benzophenanthidine alkaloid, chelidonine, and other alkaloids. A smaller poppy, it comes in a number of different colours and has hairy stems, usually around 1 foot tall (although some varieties can grow up to 2 feet).


Papaver aculeatum or "South African Poppy" - may cause nitrate/nitrite poisoning. A smaller poppy, it is usually orange and usually around 1 foot tall (although some varieties can grow up to 2 feet). Has long hairs or spines and a thin elongated pod.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Is there still legitimate Ikkanshu poppies around? Are they extinct or locked up in a lab somewhere?

Someone who grows them said this:

Primarily found in pharmaceutical study journals, this is probably the rarest poppy in the universe. Since most gardeners have never even heard of it, it hasn't gained the popularity of its other papaver somniferum sisters. Originally found only in Japan, a source of authentic purebred Ikkanshu seeds was almost impossible to obtain. The majority of the information about this mystic flower is written only in Japanese. Because of it's milky white flowers some (unscrupulous) sellers have sold China White Poppy seeds and claimed that they were Ikkanshus. The blue - gray seeds are one of the primary indicators that you are dealing with you are dealing with the elusive Ikkanshu Poppy - the light beige ones are garden variety China Whites. Luckily, I found a source of Ikkanshus that could be verified about 11 years ago.

 

[bitg]

That would be fucking hilarious if you got busted stealing poppies, especially if they found out you were stealing them for consumption.

 

[THC2LSD]

So the reason P. bracteatum is poisonous is because of the high levels of thebaine, which is a stimulant and can cause convulsions (similar to strychnine poisoning) at high doses?

Not particularly high doses, I wouldn't try to take it. I think in rats it's ten times as toxic as morphine. However that doesn't always cross over to other species. Naloxone isn't very effective at treating the convulsions. It sounds like a horrible way to die.Better to convert it to something else:D.

Thebaine found in opium at about .5-1.5%, sometimes as high as almost 5-6% in former Indochinese strains. Also high in Indian and Iranian strains. It adds to the high, it's a stimulant. It blocks some of the side effects of morphine, like respiratory depression and sedation.

When opium is smoked half the morphine stays in the dross(ashes) but all the thebaine is vaporized.Chinese hopheads(opium smokers) seemed to like high thebaine and high codeine opium over high morphine opium. I think they more used opium as a stimulant for work or to stay up then how opiates are used in the west as a sedative. This might be why #3 heroin has strychnine in it. There was someone who did claim strychnine felt good in VERY LOW doses.

Everyone focuses on morphine but forgets that there are other compounds in opium. Just like different strains of cannabis give different highs and pure THC feels different than weed(but not bad at all:D), different types of poppies give different highs. There are high thebaine strains, high codeine strains, high papaverine strains, mixtures of either and others. Ikkanshu for example, is a high codeine type poppy AFAIK, Turkish a high papaverine, and Indian a high thebaine. Also there's other trace alkaloids and non-alkaloids that aren't as well studied.

Swimmingdancer this mystery grower gives me hope. I no longer have to fear Ikkanshu is lost to the USA's War On Fun. But there were many sub-strains that may be extinct. Interesting that it seems, at least in part, to be a Nigrum.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Not particularly high doses, I wouldn't try to take it. I think in rats it's ten times as toxic as morphine. However that doesn't always cross over to other species. Naloxone isn't very effective at treating the convulsions. It sounds like a horrible way to die.Better to convert it to something else:D.

I just meant that thebaine is found in opium poppies, so it must be the higher amounts of thebaine in P. bracteatum that make it dangerous, correct?

 

[THC2LSD]

Correct, usually with opium poppies you'll die of a morphine overdose before you'd get close with thebaine. Although I have to wonder if that 5% thebaine opium from Indochina(which part?) is usable.

 

[jessm]

A friend checked on some invasive "o" poppies in the Pacific Northwest.. He claims they will always be hairless, with the crowns sticking straight out or slightly upward, Never down! He claims that after the flowers fall off and the pods fatten up a bit that they are good for scoring to release the alkaloids at which point he blends it(Green pods and all) with White 100% Grapefruit juice to release the goodies from the alkaloids. Also says just two pods this way will give him days of awesome pain relief with the residual effects lasting up to several weeks. I would hate to see the guy get some kind of plant material ill effects. Any advise much appreciated!

 

[chiparoo2]

I wonder if this is a bad year for potency. I have ordered from several vendors and the tea is like drinking nothing even from my reliable vendor they have not been any good.

 

[jessm]

Yes a very bad year indeed.

 

[Aphex747]

yea the pods arent as potent this year, if your making tea.

 

[jessm]

Sassy says cce or cme (extractions) with green pods are much better than any tea , blah. The pods she saw were only walnut size but did produce very well when prepared cold.

 

[bearmtn]

The fool proof way to tell is the leaves. Once you see the "cabbage" leaf of the opium poppy you'll never be fooled again.

 

[jessm]

Yes! Leaves with the wicked looking serrated edges. You are so right about that! There is no was to mistake that "bluish sheen" color the cabbage takes on. Once the green fruit is ready, you can even rub your finger on a pod and it will turn that same bluish sheen, Sassy better stop .I think my Chihuahua is starting to jones , shell just have to be happy with a bowl for now. , I might have to take her hiking tomorrow and she might get lucky. When one popped up in her driveway (busting through concrete!) she stopped believing in evolution, also after she was told the seeds can lie dormant underground for over a hundred years and one piece of fruit can produce 20,000 seeds, (she has bad arthritis) I think she believes in God now. She was Buddhist. Once she gets up to 1,000 or 10,000 posts i believe she wants to post a pic here.

 

[Fire&Water]

^That's probably true if no one knows you. Though I think in Colombia they have had journalist interview growers. Still might not give a fuck, though they probably would not give a fuck about gatting yo ass either. They have had some weed growers, usually associated with Mexican gangs, shoot at some encroaching on their grow site in the US. Usually it seems they just abandon it or try to scare them away. Fuck I'd ask them for a pound. And there was that one dude, some crazy White poppy grower who killed those two dudes looking for growers on logging land. Fuck just what poppies need, a higher profile. That, the dude who OD on pod tea, and the Mexican poppy growers a few years back are going to fuck shit up for the rest of us.

"are going to fuck shit up for the rest of us" should be the most popular quote on this blog...