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Detox opiates, opiates, opiates

opiates.r.fun

Greenlighter
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May 19, 2017
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5
What's up guys? Long time lurker, first time poster. I've been a stereotypical heroin junky for the past 5, almost 6 years. I'm also only 20 years old. I've been taking 16 mg of suboxone since April 4th, it's worked great! It's getting to the point where the medication is just too much money. I'm on day 4 of detox, and booooyyyyy I am dying! This WD is so much worse than a heroin detox, my god. It honestly costed me my job, I work outside. The WD's are so bad I legit could not work. I've had to go to the bathroom atleaat 15 times a day! I really wanna get some H to ease of this shit, but I know that's not the right decision. I tried Xanax, I felt the WD's through it. This shit sucks man... Are sub WD's usually worse than heroin WD's? I really don't want to rely on anything to feel like a normal person. I honestly wanna be sober, no subs, no nothing, but man...... I feel like death.
 
First, congrats on quitting. Aside from the current issue, you're doing great!

Withdrawaing from subs does tend to differ from WDs from full-agonist opioids. Often the symptoms from subs linger for a longer time than they do from something like heroin...but the "up side" (if there is one) is that many of the symptoms are less intense from subs than from H or similar drugs.

However, as you're discovering, everybody is different, and each kick can be different even for a single person. Plenty of people do have a rough time quitting subs due to symptoms like you're describing.

One question: would it be possible for you to taper off the subs instead of going cold-turkey. That will go a long way towards minimizing the WD intensity.

Good luck!
<3
Sim
 
Yuk. My issue with sub withdrawal was this scenario: I feel like crap on day 3. Day 4 oof... Day 11 it doesn't seem to be a whole lot better and then my mind starts getting the best of me. "Will this ever end? Using is better than this. Maybe I can ween off this crap with H or pills?" And a whole other succession of rationalizations.

16 mg is a shitstorm to jump from. I get into rants and railing about the irresponsible prescribing of sub so I will save you that. Simco is spot on with the taper. Unfortunately in many cases the patient has to schedule their own taper because the sub-doc loses cash cows when they taper patients to freedom. That is the sad reality, being my own doctor got me into the mess and now I have to go back to the same frame of mind to get myself out. Perhaps finding a new sub-doc with the clear edict that you are coming to see them to taper off would help. There is so much freedom on the other side. You are a courageous individual and know that you have people in your corner!
 
I felt the same way about subs -- I found the WD so long and difficult once I tapers down to less than 1 mg. (Though I did do a VERY quick taper of less than a mont, coming off a 4 years long oxy habit.)

SO... I did what you are thinking. Dangerously, playing with fire, to come off subs and end the misery, I picked up like 15 blues and got back on those for a long weekend. When I ran out of those I switched to kratom, which of course I'm still on today. So, I guess it's "pick your poison" but the one I picked is a least a plant, albeit a rather addictive one. The plan now is to taper off that and then eventually jump to reality.
 
What's up guys? Long time lurker, first time poster. I've been a stereotypical heroin junky for the past 5, almost 6 years. I'm also only 20 years old. I've been taking 16 mg of suboxone since April 4th, it's worked great! It's getting to the point where the medication is just too much money. I'm on day 4 of detox, and booooyyyyy I am dying! This WD is so much worse than a heroin detox, my god. It honestly costed me my job, I work outside. The WD's are so bad I legit could not work. I've had to go to the bathroom atleaat 15 times a day! I really wanna get some H to ease of this shit, but I know that's not the right decision. I tried Xanax, I felt the WD's through it. This shit sucks man... Are sub WD's usually worse than heroin WD's? I really don't want to rely on anything to feel like a normal person. I honestly wanna be sober, no subs, no nothing, but man...... I feel like death.

What people easily overlook is that kicking a serious heroin habit is essentially the same as quitting a serious (insert name of any opioid here) habit. There are some nuances to the experience of withdrawal (longer acting opioids like buprenorphine have a longer but slightly less intense period of acute withdrawal, whereas shorting acting opioids like oxycodone have a shorter but significantly more intense period of acute withdrawal). Some people certainly are more sensitive than others to the way particular opioid dependencies cause withdrawal, but considering you've been taking a high dose of buprenorphine for some time it isn't surprising that stopping c/t would lead to a nasty withdrawal syndrome.

What does surprise (a little) me is how difficult it seems to be for you. You've been on buprenorphine for about a month and a half, taking a large daily dose. It makes sense there would be a withdrawal syndrome considering you stopped abruptly and were on it long enough at high enough doses to make it a shitty kick. Also, considering you switched right from heroin to buprenorphine, as opposed to detoxing off the heroin first prior to getting on the buprenorphine, that would have also contributed to why your dependency to the buprenorphine developed as fast as it did.

There are a lot of medications and things you can do to help manage your withdrawal however, no matter how bad it is:
For the GI issues and shits, get yourself some loperamide (10-20mg should make a huge difference with your GI issues). Definitely get some gabapentin to easy the symptoms during the day and the RLS at night. Clonidine is great for managing a number of symptoms. Longer acting benzos like clonazepam and particularly diazepam are also much more effective than alprazolam/Xanax at helping with symptoms. Ondansetron is great for nausea if that's an issue. A non-habit forming sleep medication (like trazadone) will also help a lot with insomnia for the first few months your off buprenorphine. Basically, if you can secure enough of the following meds to last for 2-3 weeks you'll be infinitely better off: loperamide, gabapentin, clonidine and diazepam.

Other than bad diarrhea, what particular symptoms are you struggling with? If you feel like you're going to end up using heroin, and particularly if the other meds are too difficult to get properly from a doctor get yourself some kratom instead of heroin.

The acute period of withdrawal from the buprenorphine will only last about two weeks, three given your situation at most. There will be some annoying lingering symptoms that hang around for a while after that, but they will be easily managed by medication and healthy improvements to your lifestyle.

Kicking maintenance drugs c/t is never recommended and a lot of work. Keep your head up OP. It's just a matter of keeping you from going insane for a couple weeks before the symptoms begin to significantly resolve. It'll be tough, but there is a LOT you can do to make it more bearable, such as getting some gabapentin and loperamide! Any doctor in their right mind would be happy to prescribe gapabentin, clonidine and a non-habit forming sleep aid to someone going through opioid withdrawal, and loperamide is OTC. The buprenorphine withdrawal won't last forever.

Good luck! Please let us know how things develop.
 
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I know I'm a few days late here, but I can so relate to this. I was on subs about a year and they weren't really doing their job so I relapsed on opiates. First norcos then heroin. I did each for about 2 months and finally checked into detox 3 weeks ago. I had to taper off using suboxone bc by this time I had a nasty H habit but once the "detox" was over I went home. I didn't have insurance coverage to stay in rehab, I paid out of pocket for detox, and I had to get home bc I have a toddler and her dad had to get back to work. Since I've been home I've not had terrible acute withdrawals but I still haven't fully kicked off the subs. I had a few stashed from before I went and I've been chipping them off each day. My biggest problem is I'm EXTREMELY lethargic and I can't get up for anything. Not even to shower. I probably take a shower every 4-5 days. I'm taking as much otc meds plus robaxin as I can. I have no access to benzos and i don't want to drink bc I have am a severe alcoholic and I've managed to stay away from that for 2 years now and I don't want to visit that road again. I just want off of everything. Today I ended up taking about 6 mg sub bc I had so much to do since I've put everything off due to being so drained of energy. The worst in all this is my toddler. It's not fair to her and she's very active and needs a lot of hands on attention.

I've tried everything from taper to switching to quitting CT and I fail at everything. So this time I've just decided to bear thru it. Hating it and all. I do have friends in recovery where I live and there are meetings but I can't even drag myself to them at this point. I have to save what little energy I have for my daughter. I have no family to help. But her dad has family and they are finally gonna be off for summer so I'm praying I can get some help from them with my baby. I don't know it feels good to vent this.
 
Hey, mychi...it sounds like you're feeling overwhelmed, which is completely understandable. But it also sounds like you've got your priorities straight in terms of cleaning up and caring for your daughter. Maybe it would help to try breaking your challenges into smaller "bites" to try to make things seem a little less daunting.

For example, right now it may not be possible to be 100% of where you want to be for your daughter. But maybe you can manage, say, one bit of *quality* time with her each day. And when you're feeling stronger, you could increase this.

Likewise, if going to meetings seems attractive but difficult, maybe you could pick, like one meeting per week to go to (instead of thinking about meeting attendance as a bigger project).

One thing that's nice about this kind of approach is that, often, meeting small goals builds up our energy so that, over time we can choose and meet bigger goals.

In any case, keep trying. Quitting opioids is fucking hard, and it takes most of us many attempts before we get traction on the problem. You're on the right track. And you can get out of this!

I hope you'll keep us posted on how things are going.
<3
Sim
 
I can really relate to this, especially parenting I have two kids 11 and 16 and I'm going thru withdrawals so bad right now been sick about 4 days I guess tapering is making it worse or maybe not. I had a few Vicodin 10 mg but I only have one left. I don't know when my next fix will be but I personally don't think I can do this. It's not fair to them to have a mom who isn't fun or doesn't cook or do anything.
 
I know I'm a few days late here, but I can so relate to this. I was on subs about a year and they weren't really doing their job so I relapsed on opiates. First norcos then heroin. I did each for about 2 months and finally checked into detox 3 weeks ago. I had to taper off using suboxone bc by this time I had a nasty H habit but once the "detox" was over I went home. I didn't have insurance coverage to stay in rehab, I paid out of pocket for detox, and I had to get home bc I have a toddler and her dad had to get back to work. Since I've been home I've not had terrible acute withdrawals but I still haven't fully kicked off the subs. I had a few stashed from before I went and I've been chipping them off each day. My biggest problem is I'm EXTREMELY lethargic and I can't get up for anything. Not even to shower. I probably take a shower every 4-5 days. I'm taking as much otc meds plus robaxin as I can. I have no access to benzos and i don't want to drink bc I have am a severe alcoholic and I've managed to stay away from that for 2 years now and I don't want to visit that road again. I just want off of everything. Today I ended up taking about 6 mg sub bc I had so much to do since I've put everything off due to being so drained of energy. The worst in all this is my toddler. It's not fair to her and she's very active and needs a lot of hands on attention.

I've tried everything from taper to switching to quitting CT and I fail at everything. So this time I've just decided to bear thru it. Hating it and all. I do have friends in recovery where I live and there are meetings but I can't even drag myself to them at this point. I have to save what little energy I have for my daughter. I have no family to help. But her dad has family and they are finally gonna be off for summer so I'm praying I can get some help from them with my baby. I don't know it feels good to vent this.

I can really relate to this, especially parenting I have two kids 11 and 16 and I'm going thru withdrawals so bad right now been sick about 4 days I guess tapering is making it worse or maybe not. I had a few Vicodin 10 mg but I only have one left. I don't know when my next fix will be but I personally don't think I can do this. It's not fair to them to have a mom who isn't fun or doesn't cook or do anything.

Can you guys get any clonidine and gabapentin? Any doctor in their right mind would be happy to prescribe these meds to help a patient get through acute withdrawal (well, any doctor in their right mind who knows what they're doing when it comes to opioid withdrawal). There really aren't any issues with these meds, and between them and loperamide they do a hell of a lot to manage the majority of serious symptoms.

Anyways, this is one of my issues with inpatient detoxes and particularly rehabs. The hardest part is figuring out how to establish a new lifestyle in the real world. Staying clean in rehab is pretty easy by comparison. It can take a lot of trying different things, things explicitly treatment and recovery related as well as things less so (like yoga, meditation, a healthy diet, participation in some community (any community you enjoy and feel at home with, and exercise).

There are lots of useful forms of treatment out their (from inpatient to outpatient to working to construct a plan based on one's particular goals to be executed at home), but ultimately where the rubber met the road for me was integrating what I learning about my own particular experience of recovery into my every day lifestyle.

Try not and get to depressed about your situation. I can't imagine the challenges of getting clean AND taking care of a young child (or children). Yet, it's just a matter of time till until you gain enough experience with your recovery. In particular, until you become more skilled at setting achievable, quantifiable and meaningful goals regarding where you currently are and where you want to be in your recovery/life.

With more experience of what does and doesn't seem to work well for you, you'll become better at integrating a recovery oriented lifestyle (that prioritizes your health and wellbeing) into your everyday lifestyle. The easier and more rewarding the process becomes the more experience you get with it. It's all about learning when it comes to recovery (and, I'd argue, life)
 
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I have clondine and used gabapentin in the past for rls so I should be able to get it without being seen. Now I'm not taking loperamide bc I don't have the shits and I don't want to back myself up, is that okay? Basically I haven't eaten so I'm just shitting once a day still pellets. So loperamide or not? I have it just haven't used it.
 
If you aren't having GI issues, then loperamide isn't necessary. Tapering using short acting opioids like hydrocodone is very difficult, so it is worth thinking about making the jump to nothing. With gabapentin and clonidine (and loperamide if necessary) it shouldn't be too horrible (if you can also get a sleep medication that would be a tad more ideal).

What was your habit like before you started tapering? I assume you are still technically tapering (in other words, it didn't sound like you've already jumped off to nothing)?
 
It takes a good 2, 3 months or more to properly ween off of suboxone. It is very sticky and very powerful per milligram. 16mg is sprt of like 300+ mg. of oxy a day. Anyone abruptly stopping this amount is going to have a rough time.

Bigger picture, if you've been using opiates through your teen years, there's a brain chemistry rebuilding that needs to happen and that takes time too.

So you might be facing a double whammy, and there's no reason to suffer. There are plenty of things you can do to help get through it, but it would be much better to get subs and ween off. Even if you did a 30 day taper it would be easier. However, youve already gone a few weeks without. At this point i would tough it out, the worst of the wd are over, now focus on all tje things that can help you rebuild and rebalance brain chemistry. Exercise, calming herbs, teas, brain supporting supplements, etc, etc.
 
What was your habit like before you started tapering? I assume you are still technica

Daily habit as much as I wanted it, it's hard to explain my habit because it's hillbilly heroin made into pills sold as roxys but they aren't roxys they really are a derivative of fentanyl. So was snorting pills but not cut of heroin basically as many as 100+ a day if I wanted. Very short acting which is why I'd think I'd be done with withdrawals already. I'm getting some more Vicodin should I just blow it all and then go cold turkey. I've been sick before never like this long have I gone without sleep! Thanks just for talking to me it means so much to me.
 
Well, it's hard to say if you should stop trying to taper. Using something like buprenorphine, methadone, tramadol or codeine to taper would almost certainly work better than hydrocodone, but if you feel you need to taper it is better than nothing. That's a shame you can't be sure of what your daily dose was like (it makes it easy to give accurate advice), but it is what it is.

Have you considered trying Kratom? If you can't get something more appropriate like buprenorphine or tramadol, it works fairly well (at least if not better than hydrocodone - for some reason hydrocodone didn't do much for me when I was tapering or in withdrawal, but that is probably due to my former habit and it's short halflife).

And the pleasure was mine :)
 
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. That's a shame you can't be sure of what your daily dose was like (it makes it easy to give accurate advice), but it is what it is.


That's what's so scary about this, I can't even barely explain the compound and dosages, it just crept up on me until I was doing the pills all day every day and all night too. Then we had switched to a different compound which didn't work so my bf started going thru withdrawals that's when we had to face the issue of supply, normally it's not an issue at all but the people who make them are out of the compound until maybe Thursday, so we switched to Vicodin which I normally love but it's not doing much. Your questions alone help put this issue into perspection for me.
 
If you're only waiting until Thursday to get your regular dope, you'll be just fine. Granted I doubt your get much effect from the hydrocodne, but at least your tolerance will be reduced (so be extra careful the first few times you use the dope again).
 
Hi all, I do have clonidine and gabapentin. And robaxin and hydroxyzine. They really barely take the edge off. I unfortunately had a slip on H a few days ago and only for 2 days but I'm paying for it dearly now. But I'm just gonna keep fighting thru it. I have been being open with my family that my detox has been really hard to get thru this time and I need help with my daughter. So far they are supportive. But overall I just hate all of this. Like I said, I've tried everything in the past to get thru this and nothing worked. Being a parent has made it more difficult to just "get thru it" bc I can't just lay in bed being sick for weeks. But at this point I can't afford to keep using. I have lost a lot but I still have so much to lose and refuse to do it. Right now this forum has been very helpful in just knowing that I'm not alone in this.
 
I had the worst kick of my life from suboxone. You just have to be prepared to feel like death for a month. Theres no real b way around that which I have figured out. 5HE comfort Med I Had YHE Most Success With Was Robaxin AND clonidine. I was taking high doses of clonidine to ease the restless legs.
 
Kicking opiates calls for all out war so to speak. Everything is on the table. Yes, with suboxone, if you have diligence and willpower, take the calendar out, do some math, and plot it out.

If that's not an option then arm yourself with every possible natural way to get through it. Some of this is obvious. Exercise, long walks, an otc sleep sid when needed, hot baths, calming herbs and teas. Some of it is unproven, but if you can handle kava, valeria, other supplements that can help beain chemistry from 5htp to gaba, theanine, etc. Avoid stimulants, even caffeine. Keep yourself busy, lomotil if needed. Weed if appropriate. Bring every tool in your arsenal and go to war. Ive heard very good things about kratom, but to a point. A 1-2 week strict taper to zero is probably the way to go.
 
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