Opioids Opiates masking illness?

[AnrBjotk]

FYI: I'm on 2mg subutex ("legally") and have been for two years.
The last three weeks I've been quite "ill" but in a undefinable way. It sort of feels like something between WDs and a cold.
My life situation is disastrous right now with no income, no job, nothing to do, no friends and no money and constant battle with social security-office who refuse to help me and just give me the run-around (bums rush). I have a history of "mental problems" (depression, anxiety, suicidal tendencies and low selfesteen (avoidant personality disorder and dysthymia)) and for sure my condition has an effect on my mood and overall "well"-being...

My question, sort of, is: How do I know what is going on? Are my symptoms (fatigue, "feeling off", despair, vague physical pains, heavy feelings in lungs, depression and head aches) due to an actual physical illness (cold, pneumonia), depression or WDs? And how do I know?
(And, yeah, I'm one of those: I hate going to doctors).
The thing of it is: I'm afraid that if I increase the subutex dose I'll just mask, or hide, symptoms of a real illness... You see?
Obviously if it keeps up another three weeks, I'll have to see a doctor, but up until then what should I do?

And how do you deal with the problem of opiates possibly masking serious illnesses?

I'd love some help and support and feel free to move this post into a more appropriate category/subforum.

 

[twotoomany]

Go to your doctor. I had a nasty sinus infection recently. I tried to power through it with lots of oxy. I ended up developing a nasty bacterial infection in my throat. I'm on my third week of antibiotics now. Get it checked out.

 

[AnrBjotk]

Go to your doctor. I had a nasty sinus infection recently. I tried to power through it with lots of oxy. I ended up developing a nasty bacterial infection in my throat. I'm on my third week of antibiotics now. Get it checked out.

(I wont make a million excuses, but: ) I have, "like", no money right now to see a doctor. But, hopefull I have some soon, and then I'll go. But in the meantime...?

 

[sekio]

If you're taking opioids consistently but still feeling crap, it is more likely malaise is coming from an illness or infection than withdrawal. Because opioids are effective painkillers they will mask some of the miserable feelings from colds and flus. But they won't block it all.

If it's a cold or flu the doctors won't be able to do much anyway aside from tell you to drink warm lemon tea and not exert yourself too much.

 

[AnrBjotk]

If you're taking opioids consistently but still feeling crap, it is more likely malaise is coming from an illness or infection than withdrawal. Because opioids are effective painkillers they will mask some of the miserable feelings from colds and flus. But they won't block it all.

If it's a cold or flu the doctors won't be able to do much anyway aside from tell you to drink warm lemon tea and not exert yourself too much.

But isn't it possible that I'm experiencing WDs because the dose is too low after two years? Or doesn't it work that way? I honestly don't know.

 

[bingey]

^
upping your dose would defeat the purpose of suboxone now wouldn't it? It will probably make you feel better in the short-term but if you are worrying about health issues isn't that like purposefully masking them?

How long have you been taking opiates for? I start feeling like crap (depression) after just a few months on full agonists , I think it's not that uncommon in long-term users. If this is the case , slowly tapering might actually make you feel better , I have felt euphoric for months on a slow methadone taper.

 

[AnrBjotk]

^
upping your dose would defeat the purpose of suboxone now wouldn't it? It will probably make you feel better in the short-term but if you are worrying about health issues isn't that like purposefully masking them?

How long have you been taking opiates for? I start feeling like crap (depression) after just a few months on full agonists , I think it's not that uncommon in long-term users. If this is the case , slowly tapering might actually make you feel better , I have felt euphoric for months on a slow methadone taper.

I'm pretty sure I have pneumonia now anyway. I'll have to see a doc tomorrow unless it improves.

As for the sub. Not sure I understand your reasoning. But what I do know is that I usually take more than the normal dose each wednesday (taking about 1mg for sundays dose, totalling 3mg) and I feel amazing all day that day. I'm full of energy and enthusiasm and I live for that one days of normality amidst the six other days of depression and despair.

I've felt less and less "impact" of the 2mg sub over the last two years. The first year I was in a great mood everyday, then within the second year it varied. Some days I'd feel good, other days feel nothing, depending on my own mood - serotonin? dopamine? - and now I feel unwell and depressed most days...

I feel utter crap in the morning before the dose and at night before sleep. It's getting increasingly difficult and painful to walk to my pharmacy to collect my pack once a week... And I barely make it sometimes (whereas in the beginning the previous days dose would still be "in effect" in the wee hours...)

 

[RTrain]

^ That isn't really how Suboxone works, and if you were maintaining on a dose for 2 years, why now would it not be enough. To illustrate how it is unlikely the dose of Sub that is the issue, just look how easy it is the taper an 8 mg a day dose to 6 then to 4 and to 2, most can do it and hardly notice the difference.

With all your mental issues and the current state of your personal life, this could very well be from anxiety and depression. It can have drastic effects on how we feel, to the point of making one feel sick because their body is run down from the stress it is putting on itself. Not just for a day or 2 either, for long times like you are experiencing. Of course, there is no way to tell without going to a doctor, getting some bloodwork, having him/her listen to your lungs and do a few other tests. You need to not worry about the worst case scenario and go to the doctor, because otherwise you are just sitting there probably dwelling on worst case scenarios. It could be as simple as seasonal allergies causing the breathing issues and its weighing on you mentally, so it makes you feel sick, too. I'll tell you this much, if you told those symptoms to a health care provider and asked them to bet on what was wrong, they would put their money down on it being simply anxiety related. Granted anxiety can give you the same symptoms as some forms of the big C, but 9/10 its anxiety, possibly exacerbated by a mild, very much non-life threatening medical condition. They see this type of complaint all the time and believe me they don't diagnose too many people with leukemia and lymphoma, albeit it does happen. But like I said, get bloodwork done and see a Dr, maybe ask for a TPH on the thyroid. If you won't go to a doctor you could always try a diet change, maybe you suffer from Celiac disease and its that evil gluten. And if you consume a lot of sugar cut that down, too.

I will tell you this I am not afraid to say it, I went to the doctor with similar complaints (not to a T, but I had the feeling off and fatigue) once, they told me I had high blood pressure (Rx a beta blocker) and anxiety (Rx SSRI that I didn't take). Plus high cholesterol so I was Rx fish oil pills. There was nothing wrong with me at all, it was all mental. I was really depressed, stressed out and drinking and smoking pot a lot to mask it, which made it worse. I cut back of the alchy, started exercising and started feeling great....then I became a narcotics addict a few years later, so the story doesn't have such a happy ending.

What makes you assume pneumonia? Just want to ask, do you have any other symptoms of pneumonia aside from the heavy feeling in the chest. Also do you snort the Suboxone? Cause if the powder get in you lungs it can be a nightmare.

 

[AnrBjotk]

^ That isn't really how Suboxone works, and if you were maintaining on a dose for 2 years, why now would it not be enough. To illustrate how it is unlikely the dose of Sub that is the issue, just look how easy it is the taper an 8 mg a day dose to 6 then to 4 and to 2, most can do it and hardly notice the difference.

With all your mental issues and the current state of your personal life, this could very well be from anxiety and depression. It can have drastic effects on how we feel, to the point of making one feel sick because their body is run down from the stress it is putting on itself. Not just for a day or 2 either, for long times like you are experiencing. Of course, there is no way to tell without going to a doctor, getting some bloodwork, having him/her listen to your lungs and do a few other tests. You need to not worry about the worst case scenario and go to the doctor, because otherwise you are just sitting there probably dwelling on worst case scenarios. It could be as simple as seasonal allergies causing the breathing issues and its weighing on you mentally, so it makes you feel sick, too. I'll tell you this much, if you told those symptoms to a health care provider and asked them to bet on what was wrong, they would put their money down on it being simply anxiety related. Granted anxiety can give you the same symptoms as some forms of the big C, but 9/10 its anxiety, possibly exacerbated by a mild, very much non-life threatening medical condition. They see this type of complaint all the time and believe me they don't diagnose too many people with leukemia and lymphoma, albeit it does happen. But like I said, get bloodwork done and see a Dr, maybe ask for a TPH on the thyroid. If you won't go to a doctor you could always try a diet change, maybe you suffer from Celiac disease and its that evil gluten. And if you consume a lot of sugar cut that down, too.

I will tell you this I am not afraid to say it, I went to the doctor with similar complaints (not to a T, but I had the feeling off and fatigue) once, they told me I had high blood pressure (Rx a beta blocker) and anxiety (Rx SSRI that I didn't take). Plus high cholesterol so I was Rx fish oil pills. There was nothing wrong with me at all, it was all mental. I was really depressed, stressed out and drinking and smoking pot a lot to mask it, which made it worse. I cut back of the alchy, started exercising and started feeling great....then I became a narcotics addict a few years later, so the story doesn't have such a happy ending.

What makes you assume pneumonia? Just want to ask, do you have any other symptoms of pneumonia aside from the heavy feeling in the chest. Also do you snort the Suboxone? Cause if the powder get in you lungs it can be a nightmare.

Wow. Now you're scaring me. Leukemia? Lymphoma?

I think pneumonia because I had it two years ago (coincidentally while I was going through heroin wds - this was a few weeks before getting on subutex plan) and it feels exactly the same. No runny nose or sore throat, just joint pain, fatigue and depression.

I doubt I have celiac. But I DO eat A LOT of sugar (don't most junkies?). I mean a ton of sugar in my seven or eight cups of coffee a day, lots of candy and sometimes - if tight with money - just downing sugar from the dispenser. I eat maybe 1,5 kg sugar a week... I know, bad. But, like with alcohol and heroin, I abuse to kill the other pains.

I dunno. I feel very, very ill in a undefinable way. I'm to fatigued and depressed to "do" anything about it, really. I don't want to go anywhere or call anyone. It's a strange depression of anger and despair. I'd punch people in the face and throw bottles and the inane people laughing at the streets, if I only had the energy....

Yes, I usually snort. Because I feel so much is wasted when taken the proper way and I hate sitting with a mouth full of saliva for half an hour.

So: I'm doing everything wrong. I believe, as I have countless times before, that I probably have some horrible cancerous disease and that alone makes me scared to deal with it.

It just comes at a really, really, really bad time. I do NOT have the time or energy to be sick right now. I could barely cope with my situation in my usual condition, and right now I couldn't take it if a glass shattered. I need A LOT of energy and will power right now and being sick is just unacceptable.
Am I sick because of the situation? Or do I feel more sick because? The point is that it all adds up and makes me more suicidal than I though I could be. Too much to handle. Too much to deal with.
I have NO money for doctors because the social security has refused to give me anything. It's like... breaking your leg when your house is on fire. Bad timing. Disastrous.

 

[thedawn]

I'm no doctor,but you have so much self hate I think it immobilizes you.
you seem to maybe need to reach acceptance about certain things.
good luck and dont worry so much.
peace.

 

[AnrBjotk]

I'm no doctor,but you have so much self hate I think it immobilizes you.
you seem to maybe need to reach acceptance about certain things.
good luck and dont worry so much.
peace.

I wanted to write "f*** you", but I won't.
Is there a cure for self hatred (except love, which is not an option for me)?

 

[thedawn]

go slowly.
one sec at a time .
you have a purpose beyond this bullshit.
right now you're in too much pain to see.
be kind to yourself.
post here,we know.

 

[AnrBjotk]

Post what? Day 87: life still sucks?
It's always been like this and always will be.

 

[AnrBjotk]

(I know this isn't the right forum, but: What could it be? I take back pneumonia because I'm not coughing. It has to be more than depression because my entire body is sick... )

 

[iLoveYouWithaKnife]

You can try going to a clinic with a sliding scale fee (meaning if you are out of work they will adjust your bill to your income, sometimes even free)
Although, looking at your location I don't know if those options are available to you where you are. In the states, you cannot be refused treatment or service due to your inability to pay.

On to your question though: I've wondered the same thing a few times before- I have noticed that when I am in full habit mode I don't ever seem to come down with colds or the flu, etc. And have equated it to- for instance- opiates take away withdrawl symptoms which are close to the flu- so if you had the flu could you take opiates and feel like a million bucks?
Or, I think about (and even though it's MANY MANY years away ha) menopause. I hear older women talk about waking up in cold sweats and all the crazy hot flashes they have etc...

If you are sick- it's going to take your body a lot longer to just 'get over it' because your immune system is still being somewhat compromised.

In reference to your above post- Depression can make your whole body "feel" sick. It's not just mentally straining.

I guess I haven't really answered any of your questions- but you aren't the only one out there that feels like crap.
If you can slowly start to work on how you feel mentally, you'd be surprised at what wonders that does for other aspects of your being.

 

[AnrBjotk]

You can try going to a clinic with a sliding scale fee (meaning if you are out of work they will adjust your bill to your income, sometimes even free)
Although, looking at your location I don't know if those options are available to you where you are. In the states, you cannot be refused treatment or service due to your inability to pay.

On to your question though: I've wondered the same thing a few times before- I have noticed that when I am in full habit mode I don't ever seem to come down with colds or the flu, etc. And have equated it to- for instance- opiates take away withdrawl symptoms which are close to the flu- so if you had the flu could you take opiates and feel like a million bucks?
Or, I think about (and even though it's MANY MANY years away ha) menopause. I hear older women talk about waking up in cold sweats and all the crazy hot flashes they have etc...

If you are sick- it's going to take your body a lot longer to just 'get over it' because your immune system is still being somewhat compromised.

In reference to your above post- Depression can make your whole body "feel" sick. It's not just mentally straining.

I guess I haven't really answered any of your questions- but you aren't the only one out there that feels like crap.
If you can slowly start to work on how you feel mentally, you'd be surprised at what wonders that does for other aspects of your being.

Thanks.
I'm not convinced it's only mental, since I know depression and this ain't it (or if it is, it's a whole new level). I keep thinking it's something really serious this time. Cancer or whatnot. It sure cant be a flu or pneumonia since my throat and nose is fine. It's my body that has some weird flu...
It feels like a hangover, basically. Like a bad, bad hangover with all the related serotonin lack and despair...

 

[bennyZA]

Isn't healthcare free to those who can't afford it in Norway?

 

[AnrBjotk]

Isn't healthcare free to those who can't afford it in Norway?

Myths and facts-time.
Health care is free after a certain time. You have to pay all health care until you've paid 250$, after that it's free rest of the year. I haven't been to the doctors a lot lately, so I haven't paid more than 50 yet.
Unless it's an emergency. Which this isn't.

 

[bennyZA]

$250, you are lucky. My ex just got back from the hospital last night for a kidney stone... without insurance: $5000. At first I didn't believe her, but I saw the bill. It's so hard to get health insurance when you're broke too.

The American Healthcare System: Making poor people poorer, and sick people sicker.

 

[AnrBjotk]

$250, you are lucky. My ex just got back from the hospital last night for a kidney stone... without insurance: $5000. At first I didn't believe her, but I saw the bill. It's so hard to get health insurance when you're broke too.

The American Healthcare System: Making poor people poorer, and sick people sicker.

Of course the norwegian system is light years ahead of the american system, but both have flaws. The American is famous for being horrendous and plain crazy. But they both assume that people who get sick have money.
I suppose there are exceptions to both, but there should always be a system where if you cannot pay, you shouldn't be asked to do so.