Opioids (opiates + DMT + MAOI) ~ Methadone and ayahuasca?

[Swimmingdancer]

EDIT: In case anyone comes across this thread in a search, there is a newer and much more in-depth thread here: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/632437-Methadone-and-Ayahuasca

I posted a similar question in the psychedelics forum, but so far only one person has replied, so I was hoping I might get some additional info here. Anyone ever taken ayahuasca (which contains DMT and a reversible MAOI or "RIMA") while on methadone maintenance or any other opiate? Or know about it?

It is going to be the traditional ayahuasca brew made using b caapi and p viridis, so it's not exactly the same as just taking pure DMT with a pharmaceutical MAOI (although I'd still like to hear your results if you did that).

Before anyone says I shouldn't take ayahuasca while on methadone, I do know that ayahuasca contains a MAOI, and that methadone is on some lists of contradindications with pharmaceutical MAOIs, but I am not worried about that as my doctor said that, especially with the low dose of methadone that I am on and my tolerance to opiates, (and the fact that ayahuasca is a natural and reversible MAOI or "RIMA"), any risks from that would be extremely low, (unfortunately he didn't know much else about it). I am specifically interested in knowing:

- Is it possible that I may experience precipitated withdrawal symptoms (symptoms that come on faster or stronger) from the methadone due to taking the ayahuasca?
- If I take less methadone than usual should the ayahuasca alleviate or lessen the physical withdrawal symptoms?
- Could the methadone greatly lessen the effects of the ayahuasca?
- Has anyone here used aya to help get off opiates? And if so, what did you do and what were your results? (not that this is my plan, at least I have no intention of abruptly stopping the methadone)

Any other info or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Let me know if you would like more info about my situation, dose, etc.

 

[Venrak]

I do not believe that the ayahuasca would cause any precipitated withdrawal, especially since the MAOI is inhibiting the breakdown of the methadone for a while. I don't think either that the ayahasca will alleviate any withdrawal if you dose lower on the methadone, and it will most likely make them harder to handle; and neither do I think that taking your maintenance dose of methadone will cloud the experience as it is so low.

 

[DexterMeth]

I put off aya last year (to get clean actually), but I can speak from experience on DMT and opoid withdrawals..
First off, I wouldn't go for a full-blown trip, but everyone trips different, so do what you're going to do/not do.
Secondly, I have been in opiod withdrawals a handful of times where I smoked threshold doses of DMT, and because of that "instant mushroom flush" feeling, my the physical aspects of withdrawal would be ~80-90% covered up. It was amazing, and I wasn't even tripping.
Pushing the scales any further, and you're just asking to start asking yourself why the hell you even abuse opiods. 8)

 

[ErgicMergic]

Pushing the scales any further, and you're just asking to start asking yourself why the hell you even abuse opiods. 8)

Word, you'll definitely be questioning any addiction during a trip.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I do not believe that the ayahuasca would cause any precipitated withdrawal, especially since the MAOI is inhibiting the breakdown of the methadone for a while. I don't think either that the ayahasca will alleviate any withdrawal if you dose lower on the methadone, and it will most likely make them harder to handle; and neither do I think that taking your maintenance dose of methadone will cloud the experience as it is so low.

Can you please explain why you think all of these things? That would really be helpful

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I put off aya last year (to get clean actually), but I can speak from experience on DMT and opoid withdrawals..
First off, I wouldn't go for a full-blown trip, but everyone trips different, so do what you're going to do/not do.
Secondly, I have been in opiod withdrawals a handful of times where I smoked threshold doses of DMT, and because of that "instant mushroom flush" feeling, my the physical aspects of withdrawal would be ~80-90% covered up. It was amazing, and I wasn't even tripping.
Pushing the scales any further, and you're just asking to start asking yourself why the hell you even abuse opiods. 8)

Why wouldn't you "go for a full-blown trip"?

That is interesting about the DMT partially masking the withdrawal symptoms and seems to be in line with what others report from ayahuasca, although different people believe different things about what causes the alleviation of the withdrawal symptoms, for example whether it's the DMT, the MAOI, or some other compounds in the ayahuasca. That is helpful to know that you experienced this effect from pure DMT alone. Can you remember whether the withdrawals came on full-force as soon as the DMT wore off, or any other details?

I'm not sure why you would assume: a) that I "abuse" opioids (not that I think drug "abuse" is a useful or helpful term in general); b) that you know what I would think about while on aya; and c) that I wouldn't want to think about the reasons I am taking methadone ;-)

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Bump. Any other replies would be greatly appreciated. And/or more info from the people who did reply. Thanks

 

[Znegative]

I smoked DMt while on buprenorphine maintenance, and it was fucking awesome. And I don't even like psychedelics that much

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Word, you'll definitely be questioning any addiction during a trip.

Ergic is the man!! %)

While what he said is true, I remember having an acid experience where I was holding a bag of heroin and laughing meniacally, I wasn't second guessing being a heroin addict during that trip.

I'd agree with DexterMeth the most; a full blown DMT trip is often unpleasant.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Why wouldn't you "go for a full-blown trip"?

What would I do for a klondike bar??

I don't aim for high dosage DMT experiences often because 1) I have seen a partner, with whom they spent 5 excellent years with me, totally lose their mind and become schizophrenic after a ++++ DMT experience (accidental overdose; I thought I dosed around 30mg, for two hits one for me and them, in reality, it was probably closer to 100mg). And 2) I cannot tell you how unpleasant it is to come out of a ++++ DMT experience to find a significant other/loved one having their first schizophrenic break with reality on a similar dosage of the drug.

I'd rather return to the depths of ego loss, time dilation, and derealization on a ++++ mushroom trip any day of the week than to ever relive such a DMT experience.

For anyone curious... my significant other's life has gone downhill since contracting achizophrenia. If you have ever lost your mind in this way, I am sure of it; there is no going back.

Having stayed with this person for a full 9 months after their first schizophrenic break with reality, has not been a mentally healthy choice for my life and it has put a serious dint in my personal will to keep living.

Can you please explain why you think all of these things? That would really be helpful

It's a lot easier to deal with a hard trip on onesself than watching someone else go through it, while you are completely unaware what you could do to help.

Any logical thing I have done to help bring this person back to reality hasn't done anything positive, and I often worry having witnessed this trip (where I am coming down and while I am returning to reality they are literally doing and saying crazy things) will have forever reduced any euphoria/pleasure/joy that I can possibly experience again from psychedelics and real life. I already have PTSD and having gone through this is likely one of the worst things that could have ever happened to me as an adult. I would personally rather be in a world of pain again... the mind is a beautiful thing, it is worth keeping and cherishing. I cannot say why some people go crazy on psychedelics and others don't. My only guess is that while I am retaining the majority of my sanity, my life is permanently flawed as every day I feel like God's personal human formed punching bag. What's worse? I couldn't tell you.

 

[DexterMeth]

^Well put.
Sounds similar to when some fuck "date raped" my ex with a vial of acid.
Ya, so funny. She became a Mormon.

That random fuck is now a cop. Go Yankees.

 

[Ismene]

What would I do for a klondike bar??

I don't aim for high dosage DMT experiences often because 1) I have seen a partner, with whom they spent 5 excellent years with me, totally lose their mind and become schizophrenic after a ++++ DMT experience

I'm not sure I'd blame the DMT for effects like that tho. I've taken oral DMT trips at doses high enough to stun a charging rhino and never had anything but the most incredible, overwhelming blissful experiences of my time on this earth. So has everyone I've ever met who'se tried oral DMT.

DMT, particularly when taken orally, is a life-changing and wondrous experience.

It's a lot easier to deal with a hard trip on onesself than watching someone else go through it, while you are completely unaware what you could do to help.

This doesn't really apply to an oral dose of DMT. Smoking DMT is another experience entirely. Orally it comes on slower, you have a lot longer time to adapt and relate to the drug. DMT is very caring, motherly presence when taken orally.

 

[DexterMeth]

That's why I can't wait to do Aya. I'm too used to freebasing the pure compound on foil.

 

[motiv311]

I did some Ayahuasca while on Suboxone... and it made me feel hella sick. Other times I've combined MAOI's (of every diff kind) w/ pretty much any opiate (or drug in general) it amplified it to the point of unpleasantness.

I would lower your dose for three days prior to about 1/3 the usual amount of MMT ..... then do your aya... you may feel "healed" .... but to be perm. healed you'd need to be in serious W/D for a week or two before attempting an ayahuasca cleansing

 

[nano789]

I see this is an old thread but I would like to know from someone has tried if mixing methadone with MAOI has been a bad experience.

I take very little quantity now 20 mg each day of methadone and I would like to know if I can try ACACIA pharmahuasca DMT + NMT + MAOI (syrian rue harmalas) without problems..

I searched a lot online but I haven't found direct experiences mixing low quantity of methadone and MAOI...

 

[Slave2Pain👀]

I put off aya last year (to get clean actually), but I can speak from experience on DMT and opoid withdrawals..
First off, I wouldn't go for a full-blown trip, but everyone trips different, so do what you're going to do/not do.
Secondly, I have been in opiod withdrawals a handful of times where I smoked threshold doses of DMT, and because of that "instant mushroom flush" feeling, my the physical aspects of withdrawal would be ~80-90% covered up. It was amazing, and I wasn't even tripping.
Pushing the scales any further, and you're just asking to start asking yourself why the hell you even abuse opiods. 8)

I so agree, it was the same conclusion I came to on paper and moments later I lit a cigarette but what a great starting point for cleaning up. AA has its origin story that involves the clinical use of Lake Shore Drive. But I too have wondered about the two elements but gee never thought it might push w/d