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Opioids Opiate Withdrawal - HELP

S

Solow

Greenlighter
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Messages
6
Everyone,
I need some advice for getting off heroin.
I started on oc's. been on em for at least a year. since the new release of non snortable/smokable 80's, however, i was rather pushed into the brown as i don't have access to anything else.
i quickly learned that the come down (for tar) is a world worse than it ever was for the oc's. i knew it would be, but i'm also finding the high (from smoking black tar) is no where near worth the struggle (at least for me).
so, i got some vicodoin, hoping to ween my body off of the tar and was wondering if its possible for me to avoid withdrawal altogether?
by taking vicodin, am i only delaying the inevitable? or can i taper down to something that is barely noticeable?
pins, needles, cold sweats and really wanting to crawl out of my skin is getting in the way of mid terms, work, life etc etc..

so, should i plan a day or two to work through the worst of the symptoms? if so, how long will it take?

can i ween off with vicodin and maintain sleep hours and work etc?

or should i ween off with the tar and decrease doses/increase wait time?

i know i brought this on myself but any and all advice is much appreciated.

p.s.
i really want to avoid methadone/suboxone as they come with their own withdrawal symptoms, and i don't have access to them.
thanks
 
Well, it IS possible to ween yourself off totally with just Vicodin. I was able to quit a 2 - 3 OC 80 a day habit with just 20 Vicodin 5/500s, and OTC medications (With a little pot...) The thing is, it was still only slightly more bareable than a vacation to Hell. Don't plan on an easy experience, and I think that two days is beyond optimistic. It takes at LEAST 3 - 5 days just to get done with the most severe of the withdrawal symptoms, then you have weeks, and possibly even months of PAWS (Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms) which can include things like depression, lethargy, etc. It won't be easy by any means. The best way to do it is really debatable and up to personal preferance. However, if you can't take a week off or responsabilities to focus entirely on a proper detox, it may be ideal for you to try to slowly lower your intake. Perhaps decrease to the point where you are just preventing yourself from being sick. Then, slowly lower the dose every day or every so often until you're at a point you can jump off from, etc. It will take plenty of will power, but you are most assuredly better off in the long run getting clean.
 
You definitely have your work cut out for you but the good thing for you at this point is to realize that you have two options to quit now or to continue destroying your body and weakening your mind until you have no control over either.

if you need to seek out the help of a doctor i would do so before you return or begin to habitually use heroin. i think you should be ok to withdraw from the physical aspect of heroin/opioid addiction within 7-14 days, and from my perspective you wouldnt need to use any opiate tapers or maintenance drugs, however everyone is different and this is just my opinion.
 
i did not read your post

check phreex's withdrawal guide. all the info you need will be in there.
 
dont waste your time, you wont make it past 2 days. if you are able to obatin oxy/H you should be able to find subs... ask around.
also if i were you the last thing id be worried about is possbly getting w/ds from subs. it makes me laugh to see how many people on bl are severly addicted to opiates and dont want to use subs/done for fear of dependancy/w/ds.
sorry, dont mean to sound like a dick. its something im working on, tho i firmly believe in brutal honesty
 
You ask if you would be delaying the inevitable so you should just go through it? If either way you're going to go through withdrawals, you'd have to go through either equal or less intense withdrawals after using the vikes to ween.

So it's not like trying to ween with vikes will make you worse off
 
in my opinion using vicodin to help you wean off of heroin is perfectly fine and a very usefull tool. If done correctly it IS NOT delaying the inevitable, it is lessening the pain of the inevitable. Its just like a taper, your taking the vicodin, which is a much smaller amount of opiates than you are use to, to help the pain of your abstinence from heroin, and when you finally stop taking the vicodin alltogether, your tolerance has allready gone down because you have been off of the hard drugs for atleast a short while(if not more, depending on how many vics you had), and that makes the process of going from heroin to sober alot easier.
 
You never said what your habit was like..
How much OC/tar are you doing a day?
How long have you been doing it?
Do you wake up in w/ds in the morning on a daily basis?

It's kind of hard to answer any of your questions without those answers.
 
Thanks to everyone for the advice, you've all been mad helpful.
to answer the last question, withdrawal usually sets in in the morning,
assuming i had a smoke to sleep through the night.
otherwise it sets in 6 to 8 hours after i smoke.

when i was doin oc, i was doin 2 1/2 eighties, or 200 mg per
session, so at very least 200 mg per day.
when i moved to tar i really only wanted to treat my body's habbit,
but ended up doing something different once the ridiculous
withdrawals set in.
so it takes me just over a week to go through a ball.
i'm currently down to a session a day, though i barely make it,
and plan on getting on vics for at least several days before i
try to go clean.

i did want to just get away and do a mental/physical detox but
i think if i was able to up and leave everything, i may not be in this situation to begin with,
but i'm just thinkin out loud. for now the vics seem to avoid
withdrawal symptoms like charms..
assuming i don buy anymore tar, the next test will be leavin the
vics alone for good.
thanks again to everyone,
travel safe.
 
Dear Solow,

There's no way to avoid withdrawal all together BUT if you can ween yourself off then the withdrawal will be much more bearable. The slower you taper the better.
Here's what I would do,
Obtain all the pills you can. Then get one of those pill sorter things that grandma uses. (This helps a LOT I think because otherwise I get tipsy and end up taking more than I realize. If you limit yourself to what is in that box for the day, it's easier)
Taper yourself down as long as you can reasonable do so. I would *try* to go down a little bit every 72 hours. Stay at the same dose for 72 hours and then go down another 2.5 MG on the Vic's until your down to just ONE daily dose of 2.5Mg then, stop for a day and the next day take 2.5 when you start to have symptoms. Do this for a few days and then just stop. Or, if you can get a hold of an even weaker opiate-like codeine for a few days you can taper down to a really low dose before you go CT.

At some point in the process you may want to look up the "Thomas Recipe" and go gather all you can from his list. Then, start taking the vitamins and what not right away.

If you do this then it's been my experience that you have about 3 days of moderate to severe suffering and then two more days until you start to feel 'right' again.

If you can plan it so that you have days 2 and 3 off from all obligations then that would help as well. They will be your worst days. Also, if you can get a hold of something serious for sleep-whatever works for you-that's the best I find, to try to sleep through as much of it as I can.

I also find that drinking apple juice helps me a lot.

I've never taken anything other than oxy and vicodin but I do take a rather high daily dose of oxy and I had to go through this when I moved until I could find a new doctor for my care. All in all, with a taper, it wasn't so bad.

One last thing--when your mind is playing tricks on you, and you feel like everything is grey and devoid of anything--just remind yourself that's it's really nothing more than a simple TEMPORARY chemical imbalance and it is improving a little bit every day.

Another thing that I found that helped was AFTER ALL the opiates were out of my system, using a very low dose naltrexone--like 3 to 5 MG at bedtime. This causes your body to produce more natural endorphines and to repair your receptors more quickly--at least it worked for me.


Best of luck to you-come back if you need to have some company while your going through it. It helps to know your not alone. Sending you good thoughts.
 
JimmyCocks said:
dont waste your time, you wont make it past 2 days. if you are able to obatin oxy/H you should be able to find subs... ask around.
also if i were you the last thing id be worried about is possbly getting w/ds from subs. it makes me laugh to see how many people on bl are severly addicted to opiates and dont want to use subs/done for fear of dependancy/w/ds.
sorry, dont mean to sound like a dick. its something im working on, tho i firmly believe in brutal honesty
Click to expand...

What's wrong with fearing dependancy and withdrawals?
Taking suboxone is just prolonging your opiate addiction. This guy wants a clean life. Not a life of delusions thinking he is clean when in reality he is consuming an opiate much stronger than heroin every day. Sure he saves money and time, but when it comes down to it, he'd still be an opiate addict. And he'd have weeks of withdrawal to look forward to, instead of days.
 
i was able to ween myself from heroin once just by drastically reducing my intake of it. I went from being severely dope sick (Unable to even get up without throwing up, shaking and baking on the ground, shitting my pants uncontrollable muscle spasms felt like/wanted to i was going to jump out of my skin) to being just extremely uncomfortable (restless legs, threw up once or twice and had minor cold/hot sweats. And i was able to accomplish that by going from a few grams a day to about 0.1-0.2 grams even sometimes just a few cc's or a cotton shot here and there. it took me a few weeks but i was so grateful i did it cause my detox wasn't nearly as bad as a few weeks before. Now im starting to get back to the larger amounts every day and fear of going through that hell detox again! I need to do something about it soon. And the vicodin would definitely help bro. id rather come off of vics than heroin any day!
 
Dr Pepper said:
What's wrong with fearing dependancy and withdrawals?
Taking suboxone is just prolonging your opiate addiction. This guy wants a clean life. Not a life of delusions thinking he is clean when in reality he is consuming an opiate much stronger than heroin every day. Sure he saves money and time, but when it comes down to it, he'd still be an opiate addict. And he'd have weeks of withdrawal to look forward to, instead of days.
Click to expand...

you couldnt be more wrong...

you can use it to minimize withdrawals altogether......

thats why i said taper, nor maintenance.... and i guess myself and lots of us are here on BL are all delusional (use bupe)
 
SkagKush said:
you couldnt be more wrong...

you can use it to minimize withdrawals altogether......

thats why i said taper, nor maintenance.... and i guess myself and lots of us are here on BL are all delusional (use bupe)
Click to expand...

I wasn't referring to your post. Yeah a suboxone taper is great way to minimize withdrawals, but i wasn't referring to a taper. People that are on it for extended periods of time become dependent on it, just like any other opiate. Ive read on here about people who have tapered down to crumbs, literally .1-.2 mg a day. And when they try and jump off or further decrease their dose, they get crazy RLS and other W/D symptoms that tend to be verrrrryyyyyy drawn out. And when people jump of a decent dose, like 2mg+ after being on it for a good bit, they complain of very long withdrawls, and EXTREMELY LONG PAWS, sometimes spanning longer than the duration of time that they were taking the subs.

So i agree about tapering with subs; you will be moderately comfortable and you wont have to drop off the radar for a week in order to withdrawal without arousing suspicion. But sub maintenance, IMO, is a no-no if you really want to be drug free.

For those who need the sub to get/keep their life order, which is near impossible on heroin, or who simply cannot stay clean without it; go for maintenance. Your quality of life will skyrocket.
But I think its best to have a plan to quit at some point, because we really don't know much about suboxone's long term effects. Its high potency couple with its half-life is of concern to me, and that is only compounded by doctors who prescribe ridiculous doses to people who would be easily held on a fraction of that.
Who knows what havoc is wreaked on your brain/receptors.

And if you think you are clean and on sub maintenece, that is a delusion if clean = drug free.
If clean means "off smack" or whatever your DOC is, then you aren't fooling yourself and are at least trying to lead a functional life. Just like some people need a walking stick, or like me, a shoe lift, some people need that crutch to feel comfortable. Terrible analogy i know...

I just took this direction b/c the OP said he doesn't want maintenance yet some people seem to be trying to downplay its downsides.
Good day!
 
My advice

Ive been there. Two days is not enough. You will be miserable for about 5 days. That's 5 days of acute withdrawl. After the worst of the physical symptoms subside you will have another 5-9 days of lethargy, restless leg syndrome and depression. After the 10-12 day you will start to feel "normal." Unfortunantly that's only the beginning as you will now have to find new non drug related ways
to find happiness in your day-to-day life. I'd recommend jumping head first into weightlifting+cardio--start as soon as you physically can as this activity will provide you with your bodies best natural high, the release of endorphins.

As for getting through the acute physical WDs, the Thomas Recipe will provide some relief. Benzos as well (however ditch them as soon as you can, their withdrawls are supposedly even worse than opiates--I've never experienced them), Some people swear that OTC Immodium AD provides some relief, and hot baths/jacuzzis soaks work wonders.

I would avoid suboxone at all costs, I have withdrawn off fast acting opiates like H and OC and it took the timeframe I listed above. Suboxone and methodone have much longer half lives. My withdraw from suboxone (which I was only on for 14 days) was much worse. It took 7 days for the physical to subside and a full 14 days before I felt "normal."

Finally, you should try Kratom. It is a legal opiate which can be obtained easily, quickly and cheaply online. It IS addictive, however, it will illiminate most if not all of your WD while your body gets used to not having H and OC in your system. Of course, it will also get used to Kratom and you will have to wean down off that and then quit. The weaning is much easier to do than with other opiates (read: all) and most importantnely the WD off kratom is MUCH easier than any other opiate. Think 2-3 days of mild- moderate WD instead of 5 days of moderate-severe WD.

I wish I had known about Kratom before ever trying suboxone.

Good luck to you. When you succeed and look back on the days of misery from your WD you won't have any doubts whether it was worth it.
 
I sort of have a plan for WD now, and what works for me may not work for you, everyone is different. I know this because when I was having fits of restlessness and crippling anxiety, sweats and aches. My boyfriend at the time, also in DTs is SLEEPING because his TUMMY hurts... so everyone is different. With that being said... GET YOURSELF SOME SUBS, BUPE. If you use h heavily, IV or SNORT, ROE honestly doesn't really matter, it's frequency that you're using, the quantity, quality, and how long you have gone without a COMPLETE detox. I have bad experiences with suboxone and something similar to the devil himself called "precipitated WDs" AVOID THAT AT ALL COST BY WAITING AT LEAST 24 hrs BEFORE INDUCING A SMALL DOSE OF SUBS MAYBE >2mg. I find if I suffer for 2 days wake up on the 3rd day, take a shower and take an 8mg suboxone in the morning and one at night on the 3rd day that the worst of my detox is pretty much over. I mean over, no sweating or RLS and the ability to relax and sleep which I know for most of you fellow users that is the ultimate relief. The 8mg sub also feels OH SO GOOD after 48hrs instead of worrying about whether it's going to work or make you sicker or whatever, even with a sub at 24 hrs your not going to feel 100% not even close, i find it's pretty avoidable suckage for 2 days, a small price to pay for constant ~bliss~ while using IMO.

If you cannot get subs for a detox:

TAKE BATHS, push-ups, sex, masturbation, and showers, baths will save you in the heat of the dt's and I'm just going to be straight with you, when you're at the worst just roll around in your bed and try to relax because there will be a few hours of hell its honestly UNAVOIDABLE.

BENZOS, KRATOM, GABAPENTIN, LYRICA, LOPERMIDE, CLONODINE, REQUIP, TYLENOL(very much helps me with achiness -- which people told me and I never believed them, then one day I used it and it actually helped) all these meds will help ease the SYMPTOMS of withdrawal they WILL NOT be a cure and won't take them away by any means.

I have also found that if you are a heroin user (like me) than getting your hands on some low dose pain killers helps me to quickly taper and I think that makes the Wds come on a little less strong. So if you HAVE to experience WD let's say because you have no $ or your connect is gone try to ween yourself down with some low dose pain killers, DO NOT FORGET TO FACTOR THEM INTO YOUR SUBOXONE SCHEDULE... low dose pain killers can send you into precip WD and I wouldn't wish that on my worst flipping enemy, it's absolute HELL, much better to tough it out.

To give y'all some hope because I know I read these forums when I need hope. At least FOR ME the worst of the DTs are gone by the end of day 2 so about 36 hours, I feel worlds better than I did and that's even with a cold turkey detox no meds or subs or anything, which I have done plenty of times.

One time I was on vacation in Mexico and of course didn't space out my dope, ran out the night before my flight and had to do a cold turkey straight up WITHDRAWAL whilst spending an entire day in a super air conditioned freezing cold airport and then have rls and achey legs on a 6 HOUR FLIGHT... I survived HEY HERE I AM:)

That brings me to my last point, THIS TOO SHALL PASS... I know it doesn't feel like it but it does! I've had periods of sobriety and I find that after about a month you feel good as new:) but the first 2 days are BY FAR the worst and if you just stick it out your body and brain will heal and you will feel like yourself again, sleeping and eating normally and BEING HEALTHY because let's be real, shootin snortin smokin dope ain't healthy.
One more thing, when you feel like absolute shit *REMEMBER IT* it never gets easier and it's ALWAYS the same.

Hope this helps someone out there ~be strong homie~ we here for u
 
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