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On self-reference, contradiction, and logic

ebola?

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Here is another pertinent essay, also perhaps a rough draft... :)

On Royce, Russel, Contradiction, and Experience


According to Royce, the system of logic emergent in an agent’s process of inquiry is based on a contradiction, a contradiction introduced immediately by exclusive disjunction. Why does this contradiction arise and what does it mean? Royce’s contradiction appears when we attempt to place the actions of the reasoning agent within our system of logic in an attempt to make our system adequate. This contradiction is not a problem, for example, if we adopt a nominalist ontology where the classifying actions of the rational agent are not included within the system, but such a system is inadequate as it does not capture all of the present activity. In this way, Royce’s contradiction is a problem of self-reference. Russell found a similar contradiction when investigating self-reference and set-theory, but chose to set aside the contradiction, incorporating additional axioms into his system in order to avoid such contradictions. For Royce and his pragmatist ontology, however, this fundamental contradiction of logic has meaning. The contradiction shows us that the agent’s logical system is not adequate; it cannot capture the totality of the of the agent-environment interaction at hand. The contradiction also shows us that the discrete delineations emergent from logical action do not capture the continuum of reality in its fullness. Rather, the continuum is constrained by our choices, but always presents an implicit context for future conceptual distinctions and an indefinite field of future possibilities.


In order to understand the implication’s of Royce’s contradiction, we must first understand what the contradiction is and where it appears. Imagine, for a second, an agent examining an object, object “p”. By designating this object object “p”, the agent has in effect split his universe in two. Half of her world is classified as “p”. The other half of her world is classified as “not-p”. Thus, when classifying a newly encountered object, the agent may classify it as either p or not-p, but not both, symbolized, “p v not-p”. Alternately, exclusive disjunction can be viewed in terms of Royce’s philosophy of logic where modes of action are the fundamental relation among particulars, not static classifications, and we begin from the existence of a choosing agent. Here, we could think of the agent as making a choice. Either she could do p, or she could do something else, something that is not p, but she could not do both. Regardless of whether we think in terms of classes or actions, though, we can see immediately that exclusive disjunction, p v not-p, emerges the second we distinguish p from the rest of the universe of discourse.


Given the deliniations we have made, we could symbolize the universe of discourse here with a circle split down the middle, one side labeled p, the other labeled not-p. The question arises, however, as to what, exactly, this line on our diagram is. We could argue that this line represents the action of our classifying agent. She has deliniated between the objects before her in terms of p and not-p, but this deliniation itself, the split the agent has chosen to make, is part of the agent, her activities, and is not part of the universe she is attempting to classify. The line on the diagram symbolizes a choice the agent made and not part of our miniature logical universe. To argue along these lines is to argue for a nominalist ontology where there is strict dualism between the agent and the external universe, the objective world, and where distinctions are made merely according to the agent’s whims. This sort of ontology is inadequate because it does not include the agent or her actions and is inaccurate because it does not account for the universe’s role in shaping the agent’s actions; we cannot maintain this sort of dualism.


What we need to do, then, is include the agent and her actions in our ontology. In turn, we need to include the division between p and not-p in our logical universe as an item in that universe. What, then, is the nature of the border between p and not-p? It is not p. Nor is it p. In fact, it is not p or not-p. We can then symbolize the division between p and not-p as not-(p v not-p). We have a problem though. This statement is contradictory. If we apply DeMorgan’s equivalence to our statement, we have p and not p, p . not-p, an obviously contradictory statement. We can see, then, that we introduced this contradiction into our logical universe by introducing the actions of the reasoning agent into that universe. The problem we created is a problem of self-reference. The self-referential structure of the reasoning agent’s description of her own actions is what creates this problem.


Russell, investigating set theory, found a similar logical contradiction involving self-reference in logic. He details this problem in the Introduction to Mathematical Philosophy among other places, speaking in terms of classes which contain sub-classes. He asks the reader to consider the class of all classes that are not members of themselves (Russell, 136). Then he asks the reader to decide, is the previously mentioned class a member of itself or not? Let us assume, for a second, that this class is a member of itself. If this class is not a member of itself, then, since it is the class of all classes that are not members of themselves, it should then be a member of itself. This is obviously contradictory, so by reductio ad absurdum, the opposite of our assumption should be true, so this class should be a member of itself. So let us assume, then, that this class is a member of itself. If this class is a member of itself, then, since this class is the class of all classes that are not members of themselves, this class should not be a member of itself. This, too, leads to an obvious contradiction. We can conclude, then, that the class of all classes that are not members of themselves presents an immediate contradiction. In much the same way as Royce’s exclusive disjunctive contradiction stems from the self-reference in the action of disjunction, the contradiction in Russell’s paradox also stems from its self-reference.


How, then, should we treat these paradoxes? Russell chose to set his paradox aside in an attempt to avoid such contradictory paradoxes. Russell argued that “classes are a logical fiction”, so to speak of a class that cannot be reduced to a primitive logical type is, although not strictly false, to speak nonsense, is to fail to say anything of meaning (Russell, 137). On this view, classes are not logical objects. In order to avoid his paradox of self-reference and avoid speaking of classes as logical objets, Russell built a modified logical system with an inherent hierarchy of logical types which would prevent self-reference of the sort that would cause inherent contradictions in the system. In creating a logical system free of paradoxes, Russell rendered his logical system inadequate. That is, because Russell’s system cannot manipulate classes as logical objects, classes of the sort that are emergent in our every-day inquiries, Russell’s logical system is limited and cannot describe our logical actions as rational choosers.


Royce, too, noticed this limitation of Russell’s logical system. Royce writes, “Given the ‘logical constants,’ Mr. Russell regards the order-systems as creatures of definition; although, from his point of view, definition also appears to be a process by which one reports the existence, in the logician’s realm, of certain beings, namely, classes relation, series, orders. . .” (Royce, 371). In other words, Royce argues that the meaning of statements and their logical types and the relations among them in Russell’s system is given by the manner in which these statements and types are defined; Russell’s system is based on analytic truths. The question arises, however, as to what these truths, these logical relations in Russell’s system, mean to us in our experience. Do these statements actually relate to our experience or do all chains of analytic inferences arrive merely at arbitrary definitions? By creating a hierarchy of types and barring self-reference from his system, Russell has greatly limited the ways in which his system is applicable to our experience, rendering his system inadequate. Although this is not strictly a problem of analyticity, Russell has still fallen into the trap of anchoring his system on arbitrary definitional relations while failing to check whether he has given an adequate description of our experience as rational choosers.


The question then arises as to what paradoxes such as Russell’s paradox and the contradiction immediately introduced by disjunction in Royce’s system mean to us. We have seen that attempts to eliminate these paradoxes halt rather than further our logical inquiry, so we must come to grips with them. These paradoxes show but do not tell us in propositional form that logic, as a tool, can take slices of the continuum of experience and describe and manipulate those slices but cannot capture the whole of experience. If we attempt to capture the totality of experience within our logical descriptions thereof, including the rational agent within our logical description, our system falls into contradiction which belies its inability to do so.


This shortcoming of logic is also reflected in our introspective experience of ourselves as subjects and the external world as our objects. In the self-othering relationship between subject and object which constitutes our experience, we can also reflect on this self-othering process in an attempt to capture our experience. In doing so, however, there appears a part of the subject that is meta-aware, looking down upon the self-othering process but not captured by our description of it. In a further attempt to capture our experience, we can include this meta-aware part of ourselves, looking upon the self-othering process, in our descriptions of our experience of self-othering. The problem here, though, is that in doing so, a meta-meta-aware part of ourselves appears in the examination of our meta-awareness and the self-othering process. This part is not captured by our description of our experience. This process can continue ad infinitum, but we will never wholly capture our experience and ourselves.

Royce’s contradiction of disjunction also shows our experience as underdetermined by our choices and descriptions of it, always presenting an indeterminate number of future possibilities in spite of the constraints placed thereon by the choices we have already made. Recall, again, the disjunctive contradiction. Because our logical description of this disjunction is contradictory, this shows the failure of our logical distinctions to wholly capture the continuum of experience before us. Thus, even though certain distinctions we have made render parts of our experience determinate and certain choices we have made constrain future options open to us, the continuum of experience still serves as a context for future choices. Not having been captured by our description of it, the continuum of experience continues to be ripe with an indeterminate number of possibilities. For example, even if we have chosen join a rural commune, this choice having constrained a number of future possibilities, there is still an indeterminate number of future possibilities open to us. Although we could not get a job as an investment banker, we can still choose whether to farm, build houses, pick flowers, run wildly, our mouths agape and screaming, murder our house-mates, etc.


This notion of the field of experience as presenting an indeterminate number of possibilities for choice and distinctions is further exhibited by the boundless number of logical borders we can create from the fundamental disjunctive division. Recall our continuum of experience divided into p and not-p, its border symbolized as not-(p v not-p) or simply p . not-p. We can see that additional divisions can be made between p and p . not-p or between not-p and p . not-p. These divisions can each be symbolized as not-(p v (p . not-p)), i.e. p . not-(p . not-p), and not-(not-p v (p . not-p), i.e. not-p . (p . not-p), respectively. These secondary borders too are contradictory, again displaying our logical system’s inability to capture the whole of experience. Furthermore, we see that we could also make tertiary borders between our secondary borders and the first border or the secondary borders and p or not-p, quaternary borders, fifth-order borders, and so on. There is an infinite regress of borders we can make. What this shows us is that, even given the constraints previous distinctions and previous choices made place on our experience, there are still an indeterminate number of possibilities for choices and future distinctions open to us.


What, then, do all these contradictions show us about the socially situated organism-environment interaction that constitutes our world? Firstly, they provide evidence that logic is a tool emergent in this interaction, used to describe and manipulate the interaction, but not exhaustively or completely determinately so. Consequently, even with the emergence of logic, our organism-environment interaction will continue as an on-going process. The continuum of experience will never be exhausted by our use of logic; new distinctions will emerge and new possibilities will continue to present themselves. These above patterns characteristic of our experience close the door on the modern quest for complete certainty because experience cannot be captured completely and will continue to present surprises. We will not do well to sit and lament, however, because logic presents us with resources to shape the possibilities before us, allowing us to attain our ends in view in novel and adaptively appropriate ways, allowing us to succeed.
 
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AHH, how I've missed your mind, and thoughts on everything. Ebola if you could provide me with anything else on this thought pattern I would be greatly in your debt.

This is very similar to the line of thought, that brought me to say, "Modern Physics is inaccurate."

I have read many great works by many great minds, both scientific, and not. This thought pattern closely resembles David Bohm's thoughts, and even some of Einstein's on his errors in youth. For this, I thank you. You have tickled my brain with a little nibble of curiosity. I suggest you read some of David Bohm's work.


Here's brief glimpse of what the good Dr. Bohm has to offer:
The art, science, technology, and human work in general, are divided up into specialties, each considered to be separate in essence from the others. Becoming dissatisfied with this state of affairs, men have set up further interdisciplinary subjects, which were intended to unite these specialties, but these new subjects have ultimately served mainly to add further separate fragments. Then, society as a whole has developed in such a way that it is broken up into separate nations and different religious, political, economic, racial groups, etc. Man's natural environment has correspondingly been seen as an aggregate of separately existent parts, to be exploited by different groups of people. Similarly, each individual human being has been fragmented into large number of separate and conflicting compartments, according to his desires, aims, ambitions, loyalties, psychological characteristics, etc. to such an extent that it is generally accepted that some degree of neurosis is inevitable, while many individuals going beyond the 'normal' limits of fragmentation are classified as paranoid, schizoid, psychotic, etc.

The notion that all these fragments are separately existent is evidently an illusion, and this illusion cannot do other than lead to endless conflict and confusion. Indeed, the attempt to live according to the notion that the fragments are really separate is, in essence, what has led to the growing series of extremely urgent crises that is confronting us today. Thus, as is now well known, this way of life has brought about pollution, destruction of the balance of nature, over-population, world-wide economic and political disorder, and the creation of an overall environment that is neither physically nor mentally healthy for most of the people who have to live in it. Individually there has developed a widespread feeling of helplessness and despair, in the face of what seems to be an overwhelming mass of disparate social forces, going beyond the control and even the comprehension of the human beings who are caught up in it.

~Wholeness and the Implicate Order~
David Bohm PhD. 1980


That was just the introductory portion of the first chapter. He goes on to explain in further detail why it was necessary to divide things in the first place, and the definitions, and "background" of the words whole, and health, and so on, and so forth.....
 
>>AHH, how I've missed your mind, and thoughts on everything. Ebola if you could provide me with anything else on this thought pattern I would be greatly in your debt. >>

Why thank you.
I would point to of course Royce, but also Godel's theorem and Hoffsteder's "Godel, Escher, and Bach". Hegel also engages similar ideas of self-reference in "The Phenomenology of Spirit", although he comes to different conclusions (and I find it very, very hard to read).

I have actually been meaning to look more deeply into Bohm and other theories of unified order beyond insufficiently determinate observation...

ebola
 
David said:
This is very similar to the line of thought, that brought me to say, "Modern Physics is inaccurate."

i think i speak for quite a few others when i say here: show us the math. you keep claiming this but you have no more credibility than i would if i said "the sky isn't blue."
 
Micheal, you took the thoughts right out of my head. David, we've already had a long thread on this, which ended with you ignoring most of the points raised. You claim a lot and with little backup.

Modern physics is not 100% correct, but its 99.9% correlated with experimental evidence (in some cases 99.999999%). This is pretty "accurate" any way you swing it.

But then you've never actually said where you think the inaccuracies are, other than "at the beginning", which unfortunately for you is the 99.999999% verified physics. :\ As I've said before, either produce some evidence or shutup, because until you do, you're what is commonly known as "a crank". (Thats the second time in 3 days I've called someone that, the other guy beleives he's disproved the Fermats Last Theorem proof because "You can't find the largest cube". You and he should get together, your logical reasoning is about on par!). Those "white papers" you mention in your journal I look forward to seeing, I could do with a chuckle.

I shan't say any more in this thread, to leave it on topic, unless of course David raises to the bait and wants a repeat of the last thread he and I participated in......
 
michael said:
i think i speak for quite a few others when i say here: show us the math. you keep claiming this but you have no more credibility than i would if i said "the sky isn't blue."

Two words. Fuck off, I have nothing to prove to anyone. I've already had this discussion before, and most of my math is being checked over by someone I know to be competent, and honest to me. Show me where anyone here has ever been either of those to me, and please enlighten me on those people, and where I seemingly developed a trusting friendship with them.

You of all people shouldn't be here insisting on my co-operation with people I don't even know. I'm not doing this for the good of humanity, humans are a sad pathetic species, I'm doing this for my own sanity. Again, fuck off.
 
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your math doesn't exist. either stop mentioning it here or show any results you've claimed to accomplish. you have been laughed out of thread after thread here. you have little to no grasp of what you pretend to talk about. if i was you i would give up.

in other words, shit or get off the pot. fuck off yourself! as you speak about us being a sad and pathetic race you're the one making up tall tales on an internet message board in the hopes someone believes you. that reminds me - what ever happened with your firefox bit torrent plugin?
 
^^Funny , it turned into something else, as I mentioned earlier. I guess you missed that thread.

Either way I don't need acceptance from you, much less people that I don't need. You know nothing, you are nothing. Take it to heart, because you'll eat your words before the end of this year. As will everyone else in your little fuck buddy group. :)

Keep laughing.;)
 
David said:
^^Funny , it turned into something else, as I mentioned earlier. I guess you missed that thread.

i didn't miss it - you deleted it as soon as someone pointed out you were talking shit and you started looking stupid.. post a link if not, should be easy to find your own thread. we'll ignore that you told me via pm that it was finished and ready to go...funny it never popped up anywhere and no one has ever heard of it. post a link to it, why don't you?

you'll eat your words before the end of this year.

i will keep laughing. want to make a public bet you won't overturn modern physics by the end of the year? i will give you 500-1 odds.

it's a safe bet because i don't expect you to bother paying.
 
I don't remember deleting the thread, and why are you dragging this off topic here, I thought you were supossed to set an example here, and keep BS like this to PMs. Seems to me you are trying to showboat, or something.

The plugin will be up when I get it up. I doubt the world will end if I don't get it up in a certain alotted time. Are you so incapable of waiting for it, or just trying to be a bitch about it?

500-1 odds. I'll PM my new address in two weeks I'll put 1000 USD down on myself, would you be willing to really stake it? I have the money to cover it right now. I'm sure I'll have at least that much for the whole year
 
David said:
and most of my math is being checked over by someone I know to be competent, and honest to me.
I'll be competent and honest : E = md^m is wrong. Mathematically wrong, physically wrong, experimentally wrong, logically wrong, obviously wrong.

I do hope your proof reader notices that error too, it'd be terribly embarrasing to yourself if you published (or attempted to publish, that'd never actually be published) something with such a glaring error a 15 year old would notice it.

You won't over turn physics if your predictions don't sync up with even the simplest of experiments.
 
You wanted someone competent to be honest, and I was. For a more detailed explaination of why thats wrong, see the comment Cex left in your journal.

If you can't stand to take actual constructive (and correct) criticism you're not going to enjoy the "evaluation" of your theories, because from what you've said of them and the gapping holes in both your mathematics and logical reasoning, my correction will be the first of many...
 
David said:
500-1 odds. I'll PM my new address in two weeks I'll put 1000 USD down on myself, would you be willing to really stake it? I have the money to cover it right now. I'm sure I'll have at least that much for the whole year

i have no problem staking that. are you going to learn basic physics by then?

as for dragging this thread off topic, any thread you claim to have upset everything known about physics in is going to be answered with a request for proof. at least a few good faith equations?

I ALMOST TOTALLY FORGOT IT'S APRIL FOOLS! you must be putting us on!
 
michael said:
any thread you claim to have upset everything known about physics in is going to be answered with a request for proof.
In the last thread David and I "conversed" I expressly said I'd do that every time David mentioned it because I'm sick to my back teeth of his claims and nothing backing them up, and what little "tit-bits" he does decide to pass down from On High to our "pathetic species" are so chock full of shit they should have "hazard material" warnings on them.
 
Hey - this is great, exactly what I need! David, for pure comedy value, can you post a few more of your cracking results? Don't get me wrong, E=md^m was a cracker, but I just feel we need a few more now. How about:

No. of Fairies = Density of Cheese x Weight of Spirituality

???
 
I'm sure those were all great posts, but I don't care.

I will let you know that equation is correct, and it has something to do with prime rings, and prime spirals.:p That's it though.

It's funny, you guys are so motivated to defame me, why? If I really have nothing to offer, then why even bother? Seriously whats got you guys so worked up over some supposed punk kid with no degrees, and a mouth full of profanity? Is it entertaining to act like you're better, must you try to tease those that don't fit into your ideals, or image of the way things are, or 'should' be for you?
 
Because they see the tremendous potential in your work, David, and are provoking you to give them hints so they can steel it from you! And bastards have bribed a hostile administrator to help them. Infamy has no limits...
 
Achaemenian said:
Because they see the tremendous potential in your work, David, and are provoking you to give them hints so they can steel it from you! And bastards have bribed a hostile administrator to help them. Infamy has no limits...

LOL. Sure there. Somehow I don't see the seriousness of that comment, but maybe it's your delusions that made you think it's not true. Although I doubt the bribing part. Michael already dislikes me, he's wanted me banned for a while now.:D
 
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